Which game has the most complicated plot?

[Shadow of the Sun]

As you can see from the title, I am going to ask which game pr series of games has the most complicated plot.

I'm going to go with the Legacy of Kain series. With all the time travel, the philosophy, and the fact that only one character in the game really has free will the plot is rather hard to understand if you aren't paying much attention.

[Setra]

Well.. for reasons I'm sure will be mentioned later..

Xenogears.

I'm too tired to come up with good ones right now.

Edit: Right well lemme try to come up with what I can... since I'm bored and not tired enough to go to sleep.

The fact is, there is no real main plot, everything is just another smaller story tied into one big one, part of its complication is simply the large amount of information you have to absorb, and missing just a lot of it can make the story not quite make sense.

I've played the game through a few times and I still have no clue what is happening half the time.

[Crazy Owl]

Probably Metal Gear Solid. After reading through the storyline a few time I still don't understand whats going on. Legacy of Kain is confusing as well.

[The Orange Zergling]

I'm going to go with the Legacy of Kain series. With all the time travel, the philosophy, and the fact that only one character in the game really has free will the plot is rather hard to understand if you aren't paying much attention.

Seconded, with emphasis on time travel.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Metal Gear Solid 2 is just...all over the place. In its storytelling, pacing, philosophy; plus the fact that it's subject matter is meant to be a deep and complex thriller/philosophical analysis, and you have what amounts to a good version of the Matrix sequels.

I have never played the Xenosaga games, but perhaps they are a match for this.

Hmm...what else. I also hear Deus Ex and similar conspiracy games can be quite confusing (probably for the same reasons as MGS2). Any games more complex than these I probably wouldn't bother playing.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I found the MGS games fairly easy to piece together. At least you don't have to worry about time-travel screwing up your plot.

I'm a LOK fanboy, so I'm a tad biased.

[Khantalas]

Of course, I'll go with something shocking.

Shadow of the Colossus.

I must be so dumb not to have fully understood what was going on there. But I didn't. I couldn't.

Oh, and Super Mario. Why are we saving the Princess again? Why is that creature on our path every time? Why are these turtles and other beasts helping him? Do we even know where we're coming from?

So many plot holes...

[Poison_Fish]

Marathon. You had to figure what was going on through the terminals you encountered throughout the game. Not only that, but they are mostly communications from insane AI's either telling you what to do, ranting about something, even strange bits that your not quite sure how they fit in. Then there is Marathon Infinity, which adds a whole new layer of complexity, thanks to the electric sheep levels and being unsure if your back at another level because you didn't do something right, or actually moving on.

[Dhavaer]

Deus Ex can be pretty difficult if you don't go everywhere and talk to everyone. There's a Russian game called Vangers or something like that, which I'm told is incredibly weird.

[madfool2]

Deus ex is one of those games, that make you scream about the story first time around.


Just me then?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Not only that, but they are mostly communications from insane AI's either telling you what to do, ranting about something, even strange bits that your not quite sure how they fit in.
Actually, that part sounds an awful lot like the last hour of MGS2...

[Gungnir]

Actually, that part sounds an awful lot like the last hour of MGS2...
GAWD did I hate the Naked Raiden level.

[Shadow of the Sun]

The thing that clinched it in Marathon was the third game where the developers, reveling in the fact they were so awesome, started smoking crack and writing a game with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STORY TO THE FIRST TWO!

[Nerd-o-rama]

GAWD did I hate the Naked Raiden level.
Yeah, but after that, you get a sword, and get to shoot/stab the crap out of a bunch of ninja alongside Snake. I felt it was worth it. Guard rushes in those games are always cathartic, except for the first one in MGS2. Screw stealth, screw politics. I'm going to bust a cap in some Genome Soldiers/Former Spetsnaz/Spetsnaz

[Tom_Violence]

I would probably agree with the LOK nomination, though thankfully all does become clear at the end, and even before can be quite easily pieced together with a bit of thought. But by videogame standards it definitely requires a lot more thought than most.


That said, I found FFX to be, though not the most complicated plot, certainly the most difficult to get through. Principly because any exposition sequences usually resulted in nothing more than me waking up a good half hour later and wiping the drool from my chin.

[Amotis]

Of course, I'll go with something shocking.

Shadow of the Colossus.

I must be so dumb not to have fully understood what was going on there. But I didn't. I couldn't.

I thought about saying this too because I love the game...but it's really not that complex, just unexpected.

It's a simple allegory that teaches a simple lesson. And kinda not really unexpected because of all the hints telling you something is up.

[EvilElitest]

Both Baldurs Gate games combined, pluse expanisions, that is complacated.
from,
EE

[Closet_Skeleton]

Both Baldurs Gate games combined, pluse expanisions, that is complacated.
from,
EE

But it's easy.

BG 1: Saeravok is a democratic evil bastard. Who wants you dead so he can have your soul.

BG 1: Tales of the Sword Coast: I has no plot just a big dungeon you can't even get into because of the Helmed Horrors at the door.

BG 2: Irenicus wants your soul.

BG 2: Thrown of Bhaal: Everyone in the country wants your soul.

Doom has a great plot. You're on a space station full of demons and... well... there's stuff to kill. What do you mean you wanted to escape?

[Sephiroth]

so true if it was the best plot or longest plot then bg will win

[JadedDM]

Chrono Cross. I still get lost sometimes when playing it.

[Poison_Fish]

The thing that clinched it in Marathon was the third game where the developers, reveling in the fact they were so awesome, started smoking crack and writing a game with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STORY TO THE FIRST TWO!

I wouldn't call the story completely different. I'd call it bouncing around, yes. But there are many similarities to it and the events of Marathon 2. It's just not, linear, shall we say. They have parts of the original time line, and parts assuming you got captured and used by Tycho rather then Durandal.

[valadil]

Deus Ex isn't that bad. It's just easy to miss certain plot points if you aren't up for reading everything. I think theres a difference between a complex/convoluted plot and one that you can skip over by clicking next so you can get to the action.

The Half-Life universe has me confused. I've read spoilers detailing who the gman is and what he does and I can't figure out how anyone was supposed to derive that from the game itself.

[Pronounceable]

The most complicated plot I've encountered is MGS2's. Its "one shocking revelation per minute formula" is just ridiculous.

Then there's Torment. The main story isn't that hard to get, it's the little details.



Aside from these, the best plot award probably goes to Minesweeper.

[EvilElitest]

reisident evil 4 was a really complacated plot



right...............

I mean their are zombies, and your an american, and presidents daughter, american, shoot things, and kill everything that moves...Yeah



In america

from,
EE

[Daze]

Xenosaga... without question. It's plot spreads over THREE seperate games, there's no way to understand it unless you've played all of them.
There are tons of side storylines and its hard to pick up what the major plot point is.. plus all those references to Nietchze... whats up with that?

[Setra]

Xenosaga... without question. It's plot spreads over THREE seperate games, there's no way to understand it unless you've played all of them.
There are tons of side storylines and its hard to pick up what the major plot point is.. plus all those references to Nietchze... whats up with that?
What's fun is trying to play connect the dots with Xenosaga and Xenogears

Fun Fact: Xenogears is "Episode 5"

[Shikton]

Out of the games I've played I have to say Xenogears. Sooo many things going on at once as have been mentioned here.

[Setra]

The Half-Life universe has me confused. I've read spoilers detailing who the gman is and what he does and I can't figure out how anyone was supposed to derive that from the game itself.
That's because they can't.

Those are no more "Spoiling" than our Predictions of what is to come in the next OotS Strip.

[Daze]

What's fun is trying to play connect the dots with Xenosaga and Xenogears

Fun Fact: Xenogears is "Episode 5"

Interesting... I'll have to go pick it up then.. my mind is still all convoluted from that sereies

[J_Muller]

Of the games I've played, I'd have to say Tales of Symphonia, merely because there are about six major plot twists.


We have to regenerate the world!
No, wait! That will destroy a parallel universe! We can't regenerate the world!
No, wait! The world will end if we don't regenerate the world!
No, wait! The world will end anyway! We've got to do something completely different from the first two options!
Wait, what the heck is going on anyway?
Oh, screw it, let's just kill God.

[BrokenButterfly]

I thought about saying this too because I love the game...but it's really not that complex, just unexpected.

It's a simple allegory that teaches a simple lesson. And kinda not really unexpected because of all the hints telling you something is up.

Wayhey! Any sort of SotC reference!

But tbh I didn't really get what the plot was about either. I've thought about it, and attempted to piece something together, but we're talking about a game that doesn't even tell you the name of the main character here. I dislike excessive exposition, but it makes things less confusing than SotC...

But still stunning game, I'm affectionatly mocking it of course.

[Fishies]

Yu-Gi-Oh!: The Reshef of Destruction.

You have to play a card game to save the world.

[Innis Cabal]

Seconding Crono Cross on the first play through

[Beleriphon]

Then there's Torment. The main story isn't that hard to get, it's the little details.


Agreed. Planescape: Torment has probably the one of the most complicated, if not convoluted, plots around for a game. You never get the whole story unless you take and talk to every single available NPC party member. Some this holds equally true of non-party member NPCs.

It only gets worse when you realize that your character stats can affect what you learn.

[Tom_Violence]

Agreed. Planescape: Torment has probably the one of the most complicated, if not convoluted, plots around for a game. You never get the whole story unless you take and talk to every single available NPC party member. Some this holds equally true of non-party member NPCs.

It only gets worse when you realize that your character stats can affect what you learn.

Agreed, with Torment it can be tricky to get the whole picture if you've not had all the information. In fact, its probably nigh-on impossible to find out everyone's backstory without having the relevant conversations. But provided you do have the right info then everything is dead straightforward.

[Om]

I'd disagree with Torment. The actual plot is pretty straightforward. The extra detail might require a bit of dialogue but you're never stuck scratching your head and wondering what the hell is going on.

At the most basic you're constantly going from A to B. Find Pharod, find Ravel, find Triss, find mortality. That's really all there is to it.

I'm not sure if Icewind Dale II's plot was convoluted or simply irrelevant to the story. Either way I ended up wandering from area to area with no clue as to what was going on.

[Tom_Violence]

I got on okay with Icewind Dale 2 by just accepting it as a case of 'There's evil people about, and we must fight them. All of them. Each and every single one of the 2 million little bastards that will throw themselves relentlessly against us on our quest must die.'

[Closet_Skeleton]

I'm not sure if Icewind Dale II's plot was convoluted or simply irrelevant to the story. Either way I ended up wandering from area to area with no clue as to what was going on.

Duh, it's simple. Someone is paying you to kill stuff. You kill stuff, they pay you.

There are those two half-demons on the cover but who cares, they only appear in the final dungeon.

Then again, I never won that game because my file got bugged in the second Yuan-ti place.

[Elliot Kane]

From what I've seen, Planescape: Torment. The basic idea of finding out who you are is easy, but all the little details and all the plot twists make it deeply complex - and deeply compelling :)

[Setra]

Yu-Gi-Oh!: The Reshef of Destruction.

You have to play a card game to save the world.
A Wizard Did it.

Plot Solved.

[Liliedhe]

Final Fantasy VII. Every time you think you understood it there's another stunning revelation and after a while nothing makes any sense anymore...

[BrokenButterfly]

Final Fantasy VII. Every time you think you understood it there's another stunning revelation and after a while nothing makes any sense anymore...

Ahh...amnesia, the fall-back Final Fantasy plot device...It was pretty cool the first time, but it seemed a bit forced the next, and the next...Admittedly though I tend to barely grasp a Final Fantasy plot each time, and I have to resort to a Wikipedia plot summary some time later. I had no idea what was going on in FF8 to be honest, but I havent really played a game with that complicated a plot yet, although some have been just confusing.

[Setra]

Ahh...amnesia, the fall-back Final Fantasy plot device...It was pretty cool the first time, but it seemed a bit forced the next, and the next...Admittedly though I tend to barely grasp a Final Fantasy plot each time, and I have to resort to a Wikipedia plot summary some time later. I had no idea what was going on in FF8 to be honest, but I havent really played a game with that complicated a plot yet, although some have been just confusing.
I'm trying to remember.. did Terra/Tina start the Amnesia trend or was it before her?

Edit: Oh Yeah.. Galuf. Wait.. would Tellah count? He didn't technically have Amnesia but he did forget all his spells.

[J_Muller]

Well, that's pretty much how FF functions. You get small hints every so often, but in the end you don't actually understand everything that's going on until it's time to fight the final boss. Until then, you just get bits and pieces of the storyline.

[Soniku]

Huh... of all the games on this list I've played (most), I got the plots of all.

And I'm not sure what you SotC players are confuzzled over, it made perfect sense to me :smallbiggrin:

But yes, the one game I can't get my head around is Call of Cthulhu: dark corners of the earth. I know whats going on, but it just seems more like a string of random horror levels than an actual story, even though I -know- there is something going on about a sea captain and an island and a revolution... :smallfurious:

[Setra]

Well, that's pretty much how FF functions. You get small hints every so often, but in the end you don't actually understand everything that's going on until it's time to fight the final boss. Until then, you just get bits and pieces of the storyline.
Not true.

In FFVI you knew what was going on most of the game, Terra aside, the whole of the game is...

Empire/Kefka Evil. Kill Them.

[oceanray]

FFVII was a little difficult to follow, though that was probably since 3/4ths of the way through I stopped and didn't play again for a long time. Did the same thing with Xenosaga, and the effect of confusion was much more pronounced there.

Aside from that, I'm not sure. I don't think I've ever played a game that left me actually bewildered, though many have some head-scratching moments .

[lumberofdabeast]

Would someone please explain to me why the people killed by the plague in WC3 didn't just go visit Spirit Healers?

Or the people that the undead and demon armies killed afterwards?


EDIT: And while I'm thinking about it, how did having busted plumbing put up a shield around the Beanstar in M&L:SS?

[Nerd-o-rama]

FFVII was a little difficult to follow, though that was probably since 3/4ths of the way through I stopped and didn't play again for a long time. Did the same thing with Xenosaga, and the effect of confusion was much more pronounced there.
After re-playing it, I realized this was why I didn't understand Final Fantasy VIII. I just sort of turned my brain off at around the time they went into space, so I had no idea what's going on.

Of course, the plot's still disjointed and full of holes anyway, but it's easy enough to follow.

[The Orange Zergling]

Would someone please explain to me why the people killed by the plague in WC3 didn't just go visit Spirit Healers?

Or the people that the undead and demon armies killed afterwards?

Because they didnt want Rez sickness.

[Cybren]

A lot of games, and final fantasy 7 is a primary example of this, don't really have complicated plots, just convoluted, vauge, not-quite-half-explained plots with little closure and more characters than needed.

[Tengu]

I can bear more characters than needed, as long as they are cool.

And I will fight to death with everyone who disagrees that the cast of FF6 or 7 is cool. With herrings.

[Cybren]

FF6? Cool yeah. Except strago, umaro, and locke. (Don't get me wrong, locke is okay he's just the lamest character in the game. He has a special that is even worse than runic, which is a hard thing to do).
FF7? Well Cid is cool. And uhm...
uhmm...
Cait Sith is really Reno or Vegas or whatever. so that's cool i guess

[The Orange Zergling]

Barret and Vincent are awsomesauce in FF7... the other characters are kinda crappy.

[Setra]

FF6? Cool yeah. Except strago, umaro, and locke. (Don't get me wrong, locke is okay he's just the lamest character in the game. He has a special that is even worse than runic, which is a hard thing to do).
Runic is incredibly useful if you know how to use it.

Besides, endgame only Morph, Blitz, and Runic don't suck.

[Seraph]

Final fantasy Tactics.

you have to play the game 3 times before it actually clicks as to why you have to kill jesus.

[Mr._Blinky]

BG 1: Saeravok is a democratic evil bastard. Who wants you dead so he can have your soul.

Wait, democratic? Am I missing something here, or are you having issues with your adjectives?

[Setra]

Final fantasy Tactics.

you have to play the game 3 times before it actually clicks as to why you have to kill jesus.
Would that be about the same as..

Having to play a game two times before it actually clicks as to why you have to kill 'The Messiah' and 'God'.

Which is confusing enough without mentioning this is supposedly the actual God and Jesus.

Shadow Hearts is somewhat confusing. Still not as much as Xenogears.

[Elidyr]

I'm not sure if Icewind Dale II's plot was convoluted or simply irrelevant to the story. Either way I ended up wandering from area to area with no clue as to what was going on.


IWD 2 had a pretty simple story. The demon boss from the first game had a bunch of kids that tried to make a empire of half-breeds and uh, started killing stuff because uh, others didnt like them and stuff.

Then again, I enjoyed Icewind dale 2 a lot more then, say, Torment. At least I wasnt forced to stack INT and WIS to get most of the story ("role" playing at its best).

[Jerthanis]

FF6? Cool yeah. Except strago, umaro, and locke. (Don't get me wrong, locke is okay he's just the lamest character in the game. He has a special that is even worse than runic, which is a hard thing to do).


Locke wasn't particularly useful, but his character was really neat. His adventuresome spirit led his girlfriend to get injured, and forgot who he was, he left to try and find a cure, but while he was gone she was nearly killed/ killed by imperial soldiers, and he vowed to bring her back. Meanwhile he had a fierce sense of loyalty and chivalry. He was more like a heroic knight than any other person in the game. A shame he wasn't particularly good. I mean, mugging from the backrow was technically okay, since he'd have good defense, good speed and technically it was like attacking every round, but everyone else had better things to do than attack anyway.

Gau's Rage was great at the end, and swordtech was as good as it ever was, Mimic was amazing, since you would just use it right after something great like an Ultima, or a Bum Rush or something, and Tools were Edgar's best attacks if you didn't use the Dragon Horn/Dragoon boots/Pearl Spear combo with him, or equip him with a ludicrously good sword like the Illumina.

For complicated plots, I'm afraid I'm just going to have to second Chrono Cross, since I'm not sure what I was doing for more than half of that game, and I still don't know what was going on. The Fate Computer was one of the only things I understood in that game, but had no idea what its connection to the rest of the plot was.

[Om]

IWD 2 had a pretty simple story. The demon boss from the first game had a bunch of kids that tried to make a empire of half-breeds and uh, started killing stuff because uh, others didnt like them and stuff.It was the in betweens that I was missing me. So why am I going through the Underdark and storming monasteries? Oh... to get from point A to B. Right. And that big lizard woman, she is....? A bad guy that must be killed you say? Sure, I'll get right on that.


Then again, I enjoyed Icewind dale 2 a lot more then, say, Torment. At least I wasnt forced to stack INT and WIS to get most of the story ("role" playing at its best).I'll pretend that you didn't say that :smallannoyed:

[Dihan]

Phoenix Wright...

[thorgrim29]

Huh...... FEAR had me confused for a while....
Why are they always sending the rookie alone in a building full of bad guys?
Right.... so the little girl is in fact your mom, and for a very confusing reason also kinda your dad,and she's been dead for a few dozen years, now why does she want to kill you? And what the hell is the Aristide womans problem? And why is the endgame so freaking weird and scary? And whats up with the fat guy? Oh and just exactly what kind of monster is your granda?

[Tengu]

About Locke: he's decent mechanically, because he has some very strong weapons - mainly the boomerang-type ones, sometimes he throws some of them for a whole lot of damage. Also, use a Genji Glove to dual-wield a good weapon with a Thief Knife - much better than Mug!

[Krade]

Locke has steal. Steal is how you do things like get more genji gloves, the air anchor(without needing to bet a genji armor), and the debilitator BEFORE the end of the world. If Locke couldn't steal, I'd never use him.

On topic now. The game with the most complicated plot? That's easy:
TETRIS!!! WHY GODS DO YOU TAUNT ME SO WITH YOU NEVER ENDING STREAM OF ODDLY SHAPED BLOCKS? WHY AM I DOING THIS? IS THERE NO POINT BUT TO AMUSE THE VERY GODS THAT LAY DOWN THIS CONSTANT INUNDATION OF BRICK-THINGS?

[Setra]

About Locke: he's decent mechanically, because he has some very strong weapons - mainly the boomerang-type ones, sometimes he throws some of them for a whole lot of damage. Also, use a Genji Glove to dual-wield a good weapon with a Thief Knife - much better than Mug!
Locke is the only person that can deal

8x9999 damage.

Just saying.

[Krade]

Locke is the only person that can deal

16x9999 damage.

Just saying.
Explain. NOW!

[Setra]

Explain. NOW!
I don't know the exact mechanics..

But it involves the following:
Genji Glove
Offering
Atma Weapon (I do know this weapon is vicious when combined with the offering)
Valiant Knife(?)

To be honest I've never done it myself (Though I've never actually tried). However I have heard about many people who have.

Also, I think it was 8x9999. I was doubling it for some reason.

On another note, Locke gets the most turns, and it's not hard to boost his Magic enough to do the Quintuple Ultima for 6 MP trick, and do 5x9999.

[Driderman]

Hmm, well there's a lot of games with complicated plots out there. I suppose the Final Fantasy series counts, even though I see them mostly as 'vague and half-explained' excuses for interestingly convoluted plots... Of course, I only played 7, 8 and half of 9 and have blessedly forgot most of them except that Cid IS rather cool...
After deliberating a bit, I vote Torment.
Why?
Well, considering the plots of most other games, ie: Kill the big foozle, get the artifact THEN kill the big foozle or variations thereof with slight sprinklings of character development inbetween, Torment is positively awesome.
Why?
Because:
You play an amnesiac who cannot die to to the fact that a very long time ago you charmed a Night Hag into granting you immortality so you could escape your judgment in the not-so-pleasant afterlife that awaited a bastard like you.
You then promptly lost your memory due to the side-effects of granting imortality to a mortal being and your many different incarnations have scoured the multiverse, affecting the lives of countless others, in search of an explanation to that simple question: Why can't I die?
But of course, anyone reading this spoiler will already know that and the REAL reason Torment has the most complicated plot is that the plot is basically 'Die'. And you can't. :)

[Blue Paladin]

Huh. Years of lurking on these forums, and it takes a FF6 post to get me to register...


...it involves the following:
Genji Glove
Offering
Atma Weapon (I do know this weapon is vicious when combined with the offering)
Valiant Knife(?)This can't be the proper combo... The first two are definitely correct. The Atma Weapon damage is based on how high your current HP are; the ValiantKnife damage is based on low your current HP are (as compared to full HP). It'd be quite the trick to get both to output at 9999 at the same time.

Besides, Terra/Tina or Celes can do as well or better (double Atma Weapon [this is pretty much guaranteed], or Atma Weapon + Excalibur [Excalibur rarely deals "only" 9000+ instead of 9999], or Atma Weapon + Scimitar [Scimitar doesn't have guaranteed 9999, but it hits consistently at 7500-9999, and also has chance of instant-kill]. I can't recall offhand who else can use Atma Weapon, but if they can, then they're well on their way to having 8x9999 Attack. So it's not "Locke is the only one", not by far.


On another note, Locke gets the most turns, and it's not hard to boost his Magic enough to do the Quintuple Ultima for 6 MP trick, and do 5x9999.While it's true that Locke is the fastest, even after boosting Speed to over 100 (the Speed boosting Esper only gives +1 per level), Locke's ATB bar fills fast enough to barely not beat the person who went before him in the previous round (in my test case, Cyan, who I'm sure we can all agree is nowhere near as fast as Locke). In other words, Cyan had his turn, then Locke, then edgar and celes, then Cyan again, then Locke; despite having a much much greater Speed, the order of action remained the same. So Locke gets the same number of turns as everyone else. Even with stupid-boosted Speed.
--------------------------------------------------
And to keep on-topic, uh, Super Pac-Man. Where did these super power-pellets come from? Who provided those steroids? Did Pac-Man get hooked on those drugs? Is that why his cartoon was so abruptly cancelled? Oh the scandal!

[Setra]

This can't be the proper combo... The first two are definitely correct. The Atma Weapon damage is based on how high your current HP are; the ValiantKnife damage is based on low your current HP are (as compared to full HP). It'd be quite the trick to get both to output at 9999 at the same time.

Besides, Terra/Tina or Celes can do as well or better (double Atma Weapon [this is pretty much guaranteed], or Atma Weapon + Excalibur [Excalibur rarely deals "only" 9000+ instead of 9999], or Atma Weapon + Scimitar [Scimitar doesn't have guaranteed 9999, but it hits consistently at 7500-9999, and also has chance of instant-kill]. I can't recall offhand who else can use Atma Weapon, but if they can, then they're well on their way to having 8x9999 Attack. So it's not "Locke is the only one", not by far.All I know is according to some people, Locke has some sort of Ungodly Combo that only he can do. It might be a glitch of some sort.

Also... with any weapon aside from Atma/Valiant, I'm fairly sure the damage is Halved, so I don't think Excalibur/Scimitar could do it.

I'm trying to find out where I heard about the Locke Combo thing but my memory is horrid about anything outside of a game/anime.

[Blue Paladin]

Also... with any weapon aside from Atma/Valiant, I'm fairly sure the damage is Halved, so I don't think Excalibur/Scimitar could do it.Yes, the Offering halves the damage from each attack (which doesn't apply to Atma/Valiant). The Scimitar still deals 7500+ after the Offering, and Excalibur 9000+ as well. Trust me, I've got video (as in old-school, plugged the SNES into the VCR, hit record) from the olden days... I need to dig that tape up.

[Caelestion]

I'll third (or so) Planescape: Torment. Stunning plot!

[Setra]

Yes, the Offering halves the damage from each attack (which doesn't apply to Atma/Valiant). The Scimitar still deals 7500+ after the Offering, and Excalibur 9000+ as well. Trust me, I've got video (as in old-school, plugged the SNES into the VCR, hit record) from the olden days... I need to dig that tape up.
Ah..

More on topic, I'm replaying Xenogears. I'm still convinced it's complicated.

I've played through the game at least 5 times before and I STILL am not getting the whole story.

[Hunter Noventa]

Ah..

More on topic, I'm replaying Xenogears. I'm still convinced it's complicated.

I've played through the game at least 5 times before and I STILL am not getting the whole story.

I've played Xenogears at least a dozen times. I think I've got most of it, though a few things are still hazy and out there, others have been pieced together from readings of things on fansites like translations of perfect works.

The game is absurdly complicated, plotwise, and has some of the best characters ever.

If only FF8 hadn't stolen the budget for the second disc.

Oh, and while Xenosaga and Xenogears are similar, they are not the same thing, officially. Epsically because all that's happened in Xenosaga inthree games technically happened in EPisode 1 according to XG, and even then the right things didn't happen.

[Sephiroth]

alll of the FF games and i don't need to say why(or do i?)

[Shadow of the Sun]

Most of the FF games are rather simple when it comes to their plot. They generally have vague hints and so forth that only really make sense when you get about 7/8ths through the game.

Not one has ever required for me to play through it again for me to pick up the plot.

[Setra]

Most of the FF games are rather simple when it comes to their plot. They generally have vague hints and so forth that only really make sense when you get about 7/8ths through the game.

Not one has ever required for me to play through it again for me to pick up the plot.
Even Final Fantasy Tactics?

Admittedly I required two to fully understand it.

[Shadow of the Sun]

To my shame, Tactics has managed to evade my grasp so far.

Hopefully when I get my hands on it it will provide more of a challenge than all the others.

I do have to say, though, that FF7 did have me going WTF? a couple of times, but that is because I thought the plot was rather stupid.

[Sephiroth]

how very dare you well everyone is entined to their ponit of view anyway i still playing ff6(3) and i still have no ieda what to plot is about also with 7 4(2) 8 9 10 12 (12ish) untill i
1) compleatyed the game (7 and 9)
2) play it again(10)
and something in the game(6 etc)

[Artemician]

Mm.. I have to say that I didn't find the FF plots very confusing. Then again, I've only played 5, 6 and 9.. so maybe the others are harder to understand (But I doubt it.. you can't possibly get more complicated than 6)

So far.. I would actually have to say that the most complicated video game plot I've seen so far would have to be Baldur's Gate.. largely because I tend to play warrior-types with low int and thus don't find out anything.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Sephiroth: did I discount your point of view? No, I didn't. I merely stated mine.

Don't accuse me of doing something I didn't do- I created this thread so that people could exchange their points of view, not to say "Mine is best nyer nyer nyer."

[Sephiroth]

that is the most complicated polt for a game EVER man Bg was easy to grib on but the BG2 it was hard to hook on it.(mage all of the way ^^)
@SOTS what in hell blaze are talking about did you read the rest of what i said
yes i may have said how dare you but also i said everone is entirl to an view read it please

[Setra]

Sephiroth.. from what I can grasp, you'd think Barbie Horse Adventure's has a complicated plot.

[Sephiroth]

i really hate you ......(NOT A FLAMING TYPE COMMANT ) if you know i want the so called game to GET stab to death 88 times ............ and why do you think BG yes BG not BHA is BHA dude ok........ and if you don't know what BG is it baldur's gate

[Shadow of the Sun]

We know what BG is, Sephiroth.

Most people just don't like the fact you tried to spawn another abomination against the gods like the Link vs. Sephiroth thread.

[Sephiroth]

hey i am not.

errr i just edit more stuff once i can be bother to do it

[Artemician]

@Sephiroth, I have no idea what in Haruhi's name you're talking about. Could you please give a clarification of what you're trying to say?

@Setra, Barbie Horse Adventure's has an amazingly complicated plot! It took me half a day to figure it out, with all the different kinds of hairbrushes, horse feed and stable decorations. In the end I just gave up and fenced the horse to buy a motorbike instead. If anyone can figure out the plot of the game, please tell me please?

[Fri]

Xenogears, yes.

Xenosaga is nothing compared to it. Maybe the last half is a dissapointing surge of text, but still, it's a very complicated story. Man, I remember I was missing my jaw on that game, you know, from too many jaw dropping.

And, yes, Xenogears was supposed to be the fifth episode, with xenosaga episode 1 and so on, but in the end, if I remembered it right, they don't have any connection storywise, because a copyright dispute and such between whichever publisher that publish those game. Really, really dissapointing.

I'll add more games later. I remember I played a lot of games that make me thought "Wow! most complicated plot ever! Must tell my friends about it sometimes!" But I always forgot what games are those.

[Setra]

Sephiroth I apologize, I'm just mildly annoyed by trying to figure out what you're saying half the time.

*commits seppuku.. doesn't die* o.O ... There can be only one!

[Sephiroth]

............. for some reson i have an feeling to stab somthing mostly a dog

andway the ff don't have a hard to understand but still it great

[Shadow of the Sun]

I never said that final Fantasy was bad. I simply said that their plots are not the most complicated you could find.

They really shine in minigames and side-plots.

[Sephiroth]

but that your view still i love alll of the ff games that i played they rock but still i don't understand why people don train or power train
i mean like i was lvl 99 on ff 6(3) i was lvl 99 at the first atma on the flouting island

[Setra]

I never said that final Fantasy was bad. I simply said that their plots are not the most complicated you could find.

They really shine in minigames and side-plots.
Choco Hot and Cold for the win.

They're good games, just not complicated, besides it's not like being simple is a bad thing.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I really liked the romance subplot between Beatrix and Steiner in FF9. It was most amusing.

[Sephiroth]

I really liked the romance subplot between Beatrix and Steiner in FF9. It was most amusing.
that is so funny tho i do like her theme for same reson anyway my brother on ff7 got his last limit break in the first area (not ombislash ) pity you only use her at some times

[Tengu]

FF games don't have complicated plots... for jRPGs. They still blow most western RPGs (with the exception of Torment, though I'd put FF7 and FFT above it in terms of plot complication, personally) out of the water in that matter.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I dunno. Baldur's Gate II was reasonably sophisticated. Hell, even BG1 had a certain amount of mystery to it. Although you generally solved the mystery by slaughtering the hell out of the currently apparent villain and then reading his mail.

Anyway, it's all still more complicated that FF's 1, 2, 3, and 5. Those were all very basic, Dragon Quest-y plots. It was Final Fantasy IV that introduced things like actual characters, plot twists that weren't just there for the sake of being there, etc. Final Fantasy VI carried this on in spades, and the rest haven't been bad either.

I'm not sure what my point was here, really. Something about Baldur's Gate not being super-simplistic. Arcanum, too. It had terrorism, religious revisionism, graverobbing, and linguistics lectures, and that's just in the main plot. Don't get me started on Matt de Cesare's sidequest. I assume Vampire the Masquerade was complex, simply because it's V:tM.

[Tengu]

Well, maybe I should've said FF6 and further. Though, truth to be told, FF1-5 had rather complex plots for their times - when they were out, there were horribly few western RPGs that were something more than simple dungeon crawls - brilliant Betrayal at Krondor springs to mind, but nothing more.

And I wonder why does FF4 have a more complicated plot than FF5. Or, actually, what aspects of FF4 are better than FF5. FF4 is probably the most overrated part of the series.

[Snipers_Promise]

Am I the only one who has never played any Final Fantasy and never intends to?

[Setra]

Am I the only one who has never played any Final Fantasy and never intends to?
No

Jack Thompson.

[Tengu]

Am I the only one who has never played any Final Fantasy and never intends to?

You say that as if it was a good thing. Most of those games are great.

[Jacob_Gallagher]

Deus Ex is really freakin' complicated.

[Sephiroth]

i just palyed the demo and i agree it is so hard to understand it

[tahu88810]

Tales of Symphonia, it has the most complicated plot in anygame I've played (sadly... :frown: ))
Which is because it has about four different groups, depending on how you see it:
You, the Desians, those other guys, the villages.

Said groups end up double crossing eachother aswell.

Each character has his/her own agenda, although you really don't get to help them with it. The still have 'em though...