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Luminestra
2015-06-12, 01:34 AM
I'm the main/only DM for the group.

I want to prevent this turning into a giant rant by me. So I will try to sum it up.

Basically, I feel like my players are not putting any effort into the game. They didnt read any of the setting notes (It was less than two pages) and they cant remember the names of anything. They barely have goals and are acting like murderhobos. Instead of interacting with the setting, they basically wanted me to lead them by the nose to the next encounter. They did no exploration or asked any questions. They had agency, but did not use it. I try to run a more sand-bow game and I dislike railroading, as do my players(or so they tell me) This is actually how most of my campaigns with these guys go. Sadly, I am used to it. I figure we just want different things out of the game and thats fine. Their way of playing is completely valid and works for them, just not for me.

Then last session happened. The party was entering a new area so I spent 5+ hours designing the area and dungeon they needed to go through to get to the area. They party ignored anything I said about the new area, charged into the dungeon and killed everything in sight. They ran past everything and just said "we go to the next room/area". No checks were made to search for traps, treasure or secret doors. They ignored any lore or setting detail in the dungeon. This session ended pretty badly.

That night I post in our group on facebook asking for what direction they want to take the campaign. I inform them of the four factions in the area, mention a war between them. Mention that there are neutrals areas and a few examples of things they could do. I get a response from one player out of five. I waited four days and commented again asking for a response. Got a repeat of the players response and that was it. It might just be me, but I don't think I should have to hound my players to ask what they want to do in the game so I can prepare for it.

Basically/tl;dr - I feel that my expectations of the game and my gaming style does not match up with my players. I feel like I want to run a completely different game than they want to play in. I've told them I'm basically going to just run pre-made dungeon crawls with no plot and they seem fine with it. I'm wondering if I should let the game die or try to save it somehow. I've already talked to the players about this stuff (I've been gaming with them on and off for around a decade) and they seem to agree with what I'm saying and then keep doing what they are doing. Any advice or comments?

Kane0
2015-06-12, 02:01 AM
Have you already tried swapping DMs? It sounds like your not happy with the experience you get in return for the effort you put in. A change of pace might help you take that pressure off and show another player what its like to try and run everything.

If they are showing no interest whatsoever, theres not much you can do to force the game. Try changing up what you play, be that another tabletop, a lan night or even card/board games.

If that doesnt appeal to you, dont feel ashamed of calling a hiatus and looking for fresh faces to game with.

Bulhakov
2015-06-12, 03:47 AM
If you search this forum you'll find a lot of similar stories. I'm strongly in the camp "it's the DM's responsibility to run the game in such a way that the players have fun"; however, there should also be some limits as to how much of his/her own fun the DM sacrifices for the benefit of the group.

My usual advice is to either:
a) stop playing (at least temporarily) - try other activities with the group (go out for a beer, play paintball, play some boardgames, plan a roadtrip or camp together)
b) cater the game to the players' needs - they seem to want straightforward linear murderquests, so give them those, possibly sneak in a bit of RP/moral dilemmas with time (e.g. assasination quests that start out with killing monsters/criminals but move on to merchants/priests/women or kids) but don't worry too much about the background of the world

On a side note - if the players have a hard time remembering NPC names, try to give the NPCs some extremely memorable characteristics (e.g. missing limb, strange hair or clothes, hobby or fetish) and/or nicknames (e.g. "One-eyed jack" , "Fat Freddie", "Crazy Rat Lady").

Thrawn4
2015-06-12, 05:00 AM
On the assumption that your player actually mean what they say, I would suggest you prepare a few scenes that leave no room for their usual behaviour, for example a town with sick people starving on the streets while the merchants are having a feast, a theatre with a beautiful actress whose predecessor died under mysterious circumstances, or a casino where they can meet important political people and gamble a lot. Make sure they meet some people who have an agenda of their own and actively try to get them on their side. That way, they get many incentives to interact with your world. Sometimes peole just don't know how to start. Either it works, or your players realize they want something different. Both results would benefit you.

Luminestra
2015-06-12, 05:16 AM
Have you already tried swapping DMs? It sounds like your not happy with the experience you get in return for the effort you put in. A change of pace might help you take that pressure off and show another player what its like to try and run everything.

If they are showing no interest whatsoever, theres not much you can do to force the game. Try changing up what you play, be that another tabletop, a lan night or even card/board games.

If that doesnt appeal to you, dont feel ashamed of calling a hiatus and looking for fresh faces to game with.

None of them are that interested in DMing. Any time theyve tried the game lasts for a session and then they give up.
I honestly don't think they would mind that much if I just stopped DMing. None of them would take the position and we would all probably stop talking. We don't really hang out outside of the game anymore.



b) cater the game to the players' needs - they seem to want straightforward linear murderquests, so give them those, possibly sneak in a bit of RP/moral dilemmas with time (e.g. assasination quests that start out with killing monsters/criminals but move on to merchants/priests/women or kids) but don't worry too much about the background of the world
.

I agree with that, which is why I am contemplating letting the game die. My gamestyle/expectations of the game are vastly different than theirs. Thanks for the naming tips, I already do that though. They are usually ok with remembering stuff, its just this campaign specifically.


On the assumption that your player actually mean what they say, I would suggest you prepare a few scenes that leave no room for their usual behaviour, for example a town with sick people starving on the streets while the merchants are having a feast, a theatre with a beautiful actress whose predecessor died under mysterious circumstances, or a casino where they can meet important political people and gamble a lot. Make sure they meet some people who have an agenda of their own and actively try to get them on their side. That way, they get many incentives to interact with your world. Sometimes peole just don't know how to start. Either it works, or your players realize they want something different. Both results would benefit you.

I've done those before. They use magic to create food, rally the poor and mob the rich. Then they loot the rich and run off. In the theatre they would either ignore it or assume it was some random NPC, kill them and then try to claim a reward. They would just gamble in the casino and would not take any initiative to talk to the NPCs unless the NPC approached them first and directly offered them something. They would go with whatever side with the agenda approached them first. Thank you for the suggestions though ^_^

Thanks for your replies ^_^ They are helping me think on this a bit more.

LokiRagnarok
2015-06-12, 05:22 AM
One advice I have often heard on these forums is "play with your friends; either you are friends already, or you become friends through the game".
Are those people your friends?

Incorrect
2015-06-12, 06:09 AM
My guess is that you will not get them to start enjoying your play style, and you probably wont get a straight answer from them about what they want in stead.
Sounds a lot like my old group.

Ask yourself if it is still worth playing, I will assume that it is.
Is it worth spending hours preparing? Maybe less so?
- To avoid wasting time preparing you can ether improvise a lot, or run premade adventures.

If you remember, in the past, at what points were the players most engaged?
Try to include more of that. Do they like owning stuff, having servants, planning heists..


My overall suggestions would be to:
- End the campaign
- Start using a new system, to create variation, and start anew.
- Run a premade adventure in the new system.

Maglubiyet
2015-06-12, 08:46 AM
Use an abandoned mansion in your area to build a needlessly elaborate deathtrap for your players. Lock them inside. The only way out is for them to roleplay their way through the scenarios you have concocted within.

Monitor their progress via closed-circuit tv and narrate the action on a speaker system. "Looks like Jerry rolled a 1 on his Detect Traps skill..."

When the sole surviving player finally makes it out into the safety of his car, be hiding in the back seat in a bugbear costume. Camera pans away. Screams. Fade to black.

Move to a new town. Make a sequel.

Geddy2112
2015-06-12, 10:14 AM
It just seems the players and you want a different game. And it is a game-if nobody is having fun, then why are you playing?

You could always just play a hack and slash if you all want, or some other system/game if this is more just a way to facilitate hanging out.

BootStrapTommy
2015-06-12, 11:11 AM
This is why I mastered making things up as I go. Players rarely care for the world you created as much as you do, so why not just make it up as you go?

Leads to a lot of Kingdoms of Totally-Not-A-Werewolf-Infestation and NPCs named Steve or "Tim?"

Vrock_Summoner
2015-06-12, 11:32 AM
This is for D&D, right? Well, for starters, don't abandon this group (unless you want to), but do try to find a new one! If you can find another group that gives you fun, you can stop trying to squeeze it out of this one where there isn't any for you to find. Then, if you decide to keep gaming with these guys, you can switch your preparation in the other direction! Instead of spending hours working up an interesting setting, captivating NPCs, and an engrossing open-ended plot structure, you can spend (probably fewer) hours looking at copies of your players' character sheets and coming up with fun fights that will challenge them, and description of the monsters and combat-important terrain features rather than story-advancing details. The 3.5 subforum will probably be more than happy to help you with doing this. Come up with some one-liners and such for the enemies, or have them be doing something not-combat-related when the PCs show up, make them interesting in ways that don't take a lot of time to describe. Get through one combat, ask for their actions, and snap out the descriptions... Don't even give them time to lose interest in the description before it's over and you're asking for actions and/or initiative.

Anyway, yeah. Definitely find that other group. It's one thing to run a game you don't necessarily get much out of for the sake of maintaining contact with some friends. But you shouldn't sacrifice your entire ability to have fun with the game, so make sure to find a group you can have fun with.

neonagash
2015-06-12, 12:38 PM
Use an abandoned mansion in your area to build a needlessly elaborate deathtrap for your players. Lock them inside. The only way out is for them to roleplay their way through the scenarios you have concocted within.

Monitor their progress via closed-circuit tv and narrate the action on a speaker system. "Looks like Jerry rolled a 1 on his Detect Traps skill..."

When the sole surviving player finally makes it out into the safety of his car, be hiding in the back seat in a bugbear costume. Camera pans away. Screams. Fade to black.

Move to a new town. Make a sequel.

LOL I'm stealing this. Keep an eye out on the news for it.

ProphetSword
2015-06-12, 02:02 PM
I've been a DM for 30+ years, and I've encountered a bunch of different groups in my time.

To me, this sounds like you've got a hack-slash-&-bash group. They derive fun from killing things, looting treasure and being as absolute badass as they can be. They don't care about lore, story or anything involving roleplaying.

There are two ways you can handle this group:

1) Stop playing with them. They don't appreciate you.

2) Adjust your DM style to give them the game that they want.

If you opt for 2, you should spend way, way less time developing anything for your world. You can just use any generic setting with generic NPCs (they won't even notice).

Instead, spend your time creating challenging encounters. Give them simple missions, like clearing out a graveyard of undead while leading them on with rumors of magical items stored in the crypts (these groups are almost always motivated by greed and power). Let them have their moments of glory.

If I'm right about them being this kind of group, they want less roleplay and story detail and more action. If you're a DM who is okay with this, just create straight forward action games and set them up in situations where they can kill things, gather tons of treasure and just be general bad-asses, and they will love you for it.

This may not be the game you want, though. So, be sure you're okay with running simple hack-&-slash video-game style scenarios. If you aren't, take option 1 instead.

Delwugor
2015-06-12, 04:38 PM
Run Tomb of Horrors for them. :smallbiggrin:

if you keep GMing for the players, take a look at different megadungeons. GM prep-time is considerably less, lots for players to do even while running through hack-n-slash, and can be just fun. Some of the ones I would recommend looking at
Dyson's Delves https://rpgcharacters.wordpress.com/zerobarrier/dysons-delves
Castle of the Mad Archmage http://brwgamesllc.blogspot.com/p/castle-of-mad-archmage.html
Temple of Elemental Evil http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17068/T14-Temple-of-Elemental-Evil-1e

Cluedrew
2015-06-12, 06:17 PM
LOL I'm stealing this. Keep an eye out on the news for it.

... ... ...

Well then I'm going to avoid pick-up games for the next little while.

Vrock_Summoner
2015-06-12, 07:23 PM
... ... ...

Well then I'm going to avoid pick-up games for the next little while.

Nonsense, it'll be fun. Join us. I insist.

TheThan
2015-06-12, 08:54 PM
For starters your players’ characters should have died horrendous deaths charging into a dungeon blind like that.

Secondly; I think too many people on these forums are too willing to give up on players. I don’t know why, quitting a game means you don’t have a game to play in anymore. Not everyone has access to a legion of potential players after all. In fact, most of us play with people we know, friends and acquaintances. Why should we just give up without trying to fix the situation first?

Lastly; communication is king when dealing with problems like this. I strongly suggest getting together and talk to them in person, alone or as a group. Facebook or other social media is not good enough. The key is to get them talking and open up and talk about the game with you (especially important since it sounds like they're not giving you any feedback). If you deal with them away from the gaming table, start talking to them about the game. Try to get them excited about the game. people lose interest in things they find uninteresting or boring.

You’re not going to find out what’s wrong if people don’t talk to you. Ask for constructive criticism and be open to it (do not get angry or defensive and try to defend your position; instead tell them you'll try to fix that aspect of the game... then try to fix that aspect of the game). Ask them questions about the game. How they feel about the quests they’ve been on, how they feel about their characters, about each other’s character, about the setting if they know anything about it. the information you glean from this will help you.


Pay attention to their attitudes during the game session. Are really excited and interactive during combat? Or are they still checked out?
Figure out this stuff, keep a journal if you must of their reactions. try to figure out what the problem is and then try to fix it. that's the only way to make your game better, and to get your characters involved. There are lots of reasons why your players could have checked out. Something going down in real life, a general dislike of the system, style conflict, burnout, you name it. If you can find out what the problem is instead of what you think the problem is, then your game will improve.

Luminestra
2015-06-16, 05:09 PM
*snip*

Thanks for talking some sense into me.

I've had a face to face conversation with my group and we sorted everything out. Obviously not every single problem is solved but things seem like they will be better now.

Now that I've had a chance to cool off and get my players feedback, I think I made the setting too alien for them. I don't think they had anything familiar to anchor themselves in so they just switched to their default mode. So I think I'm to blame for this too. I'm going to redesign the setting a bit and the players have agreed on a goal. So the future looks bright. Thanks for the input and suggestions everyone ^_^