Optimizing Shillelagh and the like

[TheCrowing1432]

Ive always liked the spell Shillelagh but the trouble is, it falls off. It can only work on nonmagical weapons. Ive always liked the idea of a martial druid.

(But why not be a ranger?) because rangers dont have the magical oomph that druids do.

Basically this thread is to ask, is it possible to make a martial druid without resorting to wildshape and utilizing his magic along with his weapons?

[nedz]

You can stack Brambles or Spikes and even Entangling Staff for more oomph.

I did once create a Monk/Spirit Shaman build which used the fact that Monk's can flurry with a Quarter Staff for more attacks. Obviously you could use a Monk/Druid build also.

At mid-levels and above spells are more important anyway — just as well you are a full-caster.

[Metahuman1]

I do believe greater mighty wallop and greater magic weapon stack with this spell. Just saying.

[TheCrowing1432]

You can stack Brambles or Spikes and even Entangling Staff for more oomph.

I did once create a Monk/Spirit Shaman build which used the fact that Monk's can flurry with a Quarter Staff for more attacks. Obviously you could use a Monk/Druid build also.

At mid-levels and above spells are more important anyway — just as well you are a full-caster.

Problem with dipping monk is a loss of spellcasting. But these are some good ideas.

[TheCrowing1432]

I do believe greater mighty wallop and greater magic weapon stack with this spell. Just saying.

Which is a wizard/sorcerer spell.

[~Corvus~]

Problem with dipping monk is a loss of spellcasting. But these are some good ideas.

Actually, monk 1 is a decent idea: You get Wis to AC. Tack on Intuitive Attack feat from BOED, and you get Wis to hit with simple weapons (Unarmed, staffs, and clubs are relevant.) It's one level loss of spells, but you're a druid getting sorceror-level casting. Bonus points for awesome.

[ShaneMRoth]

I'm sticking with the Core classes, since I'm not sure what options are available to you...

Would multi-classing in Barbarian/Druid work for you?

[fallensavior]

Ive always liked the spell Shillelagh but the trouble is, it falls off. It can only work on nonmagical weapons. Ive always liked the idea of a martial druid.

(But why not be a ranger?) because rangers dont have the magical oomph that druids do.

Basically this thread is to ask, is it possible to make a martial druid without resorting to wildshape and utilizing his magic along with his weapons?

Brambles is a superior version of Shillelagh. It lets you use magic weapons and lets you use non staff non club options as well.

I had a charger melee druid build that fought with a wooden shield 2-handed with Brambles cast on it. Also had Pounce, Shield Charge, Rhino Hide. It was awesome, better than wildshape melee at every level and I played it from 1 to 16.

The only issue is that you pretty much have to multiclass (or gestalt) fighter to get enough feats for shield-fighting and druiding.

[nedz]

Actually, monk 1 is a decent idea: You get Wis to AC. Tack on Intuitive Attack feat from BOED, and you get Wis to hit with simple weapons (Unarmed, staffs, and clubs are relevant.) It's one level loss of spells, but you're a druid getting sorceror-level casting. Bonus points for awesome.

Monk also gets Knowledge Religion — which opens up several options earlier. But, yeah, you don't want two many levels.

My build used this to get into Seeker of the Misty Isle — which gets you the Travel domain — and now you can take Sun School.

[Metahuman1]

Which is a wizard/sorcerer spell.

Buy the party Wizard a scroll, pearl of power and lesser rod of extend spell.

Or get him to make you a 1 or 2/day extended CL 8 or so item of it.

[Hiro Quester]

Shillelagh, brambles or spikes, and entangling staff are a good combo, esp. on a monk1/druidX (which, in addition to wis to AC, is also a reasonable option for improved unarmed strike, and improved grape when you do wildshape into a grappler).

Add a casting of enlarge person (buy your party arcane caster a wand) to add an extra oomph to the combo, though.

Though this can also work by wildshaping into a Dire Ape and using a quarterstaff enhanced by shillelagh, etc.

[eggynack]

Brambles is a superior version of Shillelagh. It lets you use magic weapons and le lts you use non staff non club options as well.
More like a mostly worse option. Even at the maximum of brambles' power, and the minimum of shillelagh's, you're still only beating out shillelagh by 5.5 damage, and that's in exchange for a spell level and a loss of duration. That's ignoring the fact that, by level ten, you're likely running around in some large ape form (or any combat form if you're using fangshields druid substitution levels), which causes the size boost to start handing out six damage instead of 3.5, thus changing that difference to three damage points. Sure, you can use a different sort of weapon, but your options on a druid aren't exactly vast, and you can use a magical weapon, but that mostly just subsumes the bonus granted by these spells and isn't all that necessary. It's such a small set of advantages, and you're losing out on a lot in the process, particularly the ability to carry the benefit across encounters.

[~Corvus~]

Why is yet another great 1-level dip (instead of monk) Cloistered Cleric 1, picking up Knowledge Devotion, knowledge skills, and grabbing Divine MetaMagic Persistent spell?? (Allows you to spend turn undead attempts instead of raising spell level for Persisted spells).

So good! You then can rock out on protective enchants all day long, have shillelagh AND brambles and all your enchants last for the whole day.

If the DM let you (I don't see the problem), you could ask Mr. DM to allow Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) (also UA 51) and instead of losing that companion, lose Wildshape. Grab the full rage progression as compensation, and that's pretty badass.

Or perhaps be a Shifter Druid, which doesn't change your form. Wild Shifting increases damage by size category, so that's a cool way to go also. This would allow you ALSO to be standard druidic avenger as well.

[Venger]

Actually, monk 1 is a decent idea: You get Wis to AC. Tack on Intuitive Attack feat from BOED, and you get Wis to hit with simple weapons (Unarmed, staffs, and clubs are relevant.) It's one level loss of spells, but you're a druid getting sorceror-level casting. Bonus points for awesome.

Or you could just usea monks belt

[nedz]

Or you could just use a monks belt

Which doesn't get you the extra attack nor Knowledge Religion.

Ed:
Elf Monk 1 / Spirit Shamen 4 / Seeker of the Misty Isle 1 / Spirit Shamen +7 / SotMI or SS +4

Monk 1 bonus feat could be Combat Expertise or Improved Grapple or Power Attack
Swap Flurry for Decisive Strike — with Power Attack — Quarterstaffs are two handed weapons.

Use Shillelagh + Brambles/Spikes + Entangling Staff
Buff with Bite of X spells etc.

Qualifies for Sun School (with Dim Door) at 9th

Monk 2 for a bonus feat and Evasion is tempting, but you lose a caster level

Lots of skill points, and excellent Spot.

[J-H]

Play as a Goliath, and get Monkey Grip. Then add Shillelagh, Enlarge Person (or Expansion), and GMW.

Watch the dice roll... at about ECL 4.

[Metahuman1]

Another thought: Use spellcraft to research Druid version of Greater Mighty Wallop, and dip either cleric or Sacred Excorcist for turn undead.

DMM: Persist: GMW, Shillelagh, Brambles and Greater Mighty Wallop. that should work out to 8d8 + Brambles damage (Up to +10 or +15, I forget which.) + 5 after that.

[nedz]

SotMI 7 Grants access to the Magic domain whose granted power is to allow usage of Wizard/Sorcerer Spell Completion/Trigger Devices.

Monk 1 / Spirit Shaman 4 / SotMI 7, or Monk 1 / Druid 4 / SotMI 7, would net you this at ECL 12.

It would cost you two caster levels though.

[TheCrowing1432]

SotMI 7 Grants access to the Magic domain whose granted power is to allow usage of Wizard/Sorcerer Spell Completion/Trigger Devices.

Monk 1 / Spirit Shaman 4 / SotMI 7, or Monk 1 / Druid 4 / SotMI 7, would net you this at ECL 12.

It would cost you two caster levels though.

I had no idea how good Seeker of the Misty Isle was.

Hmm, I was thinking of going Druidic Avenger, to gain access to fast movement and rage, would that fit in well here? And since Im going to prestige out of druid, should I trade away wild shape for something as well?

[nedz]

I had no idea how good Seeker of the Misty Isle was.

Hmm, I was thinking of going Druidic Avenger, to gain access to fast movement and rage, would that fit in well here? And since Im going to prestige out of druid, should I trade away wild shape for something as well?

If you are only going to take 4 levels of Druid then clearly you should swap out Wild Shape.

[Chronos]

Quoth J-H:

Play as a Goliath, and get Monkey Grip. Then add Shillelagh, Enlarge Person (or Expansion), and GMW.
That doesn't work, and it also doesn't work. First of all, Powerful Build and Monkey Grip don't stack. Both say you can use weapons one size larger than normal, so a goliath with Monkey Grip can use large weapons, and can also use large weapons. Second, Enlarge Person can't be used on a goliath, because they're monstrous humanoids, not humanoids.