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Pax_Chi
2007-04-25, 05:39 AM
Hello all. In my ongoing quest to make the Monk a playable character class while embracing my love for ToB, I decided to try a different route from the new core class I created here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29762

Instead, I've created a Prestige Class that will be be to fans of the Monk and Tome of Battle what the Fist of Zuoken was to Monks and Psionics, or what the Sacred Fist was to Monks and the Divine.

I may have overcompensated here and made the Prestige class a bit too powerful, but that's why I'm posting it up here to get some feedback from everyone. Let me know what you think.


Fist of the Sublime Way

The Fist of the Sublime Way seeks to combine the mastery of the physical training that Monks pursue with the knowledge of martial lore that Sword Sages seek. The Fist of the Sublime Way seeks to fully integrate the physical training, mental discipline and spiritual calm of both classes while simultaneously combining their martial arts skills. After learning the basics of both arts, these students seek out temples, dojo’s or masters willing to accept a student onto this unique path of the Sublime Way.

A Fist of the Sublime Way is a martial artist who focuses on the development of the body and the internal energy called ki that he uses to power various martial arts techniques. By combining the lessons taught by the Monk and Sword Sage schools of thought, the Fist is able to fight as well with their bare hands as others do fully armed and channel their martial knowledge into techniques of great versatility.

Entry Requirements
Base Attack Bonus: +3
Feats: Adaptive Style, Improved Unarmed Strike
Skills: Martial Lore +8
Special Ability: Sword Sage’s AC Bonus, Monk’s Still Mind ability

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+1|+0|+2|+2|Integration of Inner Armor
2nd|+2|+0|+3|+3|Defensive Stance +2
3rd|+3|+1|+3|+3|Martial Healing
4th|+4|+1|+4|+4|Defensive Stance +4
5th|+5|+1|+4|+4|Master of Movement 1
6th|+6|+2|+5|+5|Defensive Stance +6
7th|+7|+2|+5|+5|Improved Evasion
8th|+8|+2|+6|+6|Defensive Stance +8
9th|+9|+3|+6|+6|Master of Movement 2
10th|+10|+3|+7|+7| Defensive Stance +10, [/table]

Hit Die: D10


Monk Abilities: Each level of Fist of the Sublime Way adds your class level to your Monk level to determine your unarmed damage, unarmored speed and slow fall distance. Furthermore, Unarmed Strikes are now considered preferred weapons of all martial arts disciplines you choose from.


Sword Sage Abilities: Each level of Fist of the Sublime Way adds your class level to your Sword Sage level to determine your number of maneuvers known, maneuvers readied and stances known.


Integration of Inner Armor: Your training begins by mastering the ability to combine the different defensive skills of your Monk and Sword Sage backgrounds together. You learn to integrate your Sword Sage and Monk AC bonuses, allowing you to add double your Wisdom bonus to your AC. If a Fist of the Sublime way wears any armor or magic items that increase Armor Class, such as Bracers of Armor, they lose this bonus and retain only their base Wisdom bonus to AC.


Defensive Stance: At 2nd level, the Fist of the Sublime Way learns how to combine their Monk like footwork with the defensive aspects of a Swordsages various combat stances. Any time a Fist gains the benefits of one of their martial stances, they gain a +2 bonus to their AC. This bonus increases by an additional +2 every two levels afterwards, to a total bonus of +10 at level 10. Any time the Monk is forced out of his Martial Stance, rendered helpless or forced into a position where he would lose his Monk or Swordsage Wisdom bonus (including wearing armor or mystic equipment), he loses this bonus to AC.


Martial Healing: Through long hours of mediation, your oneness with your body allows you to channel your ki into it to heal your wounds. You learn how to channel the energy you normally use in martial maneuvers to heal yourself. As a Swift Action, the Fist can sacrifice a Maneuvered Readied slot for the day to regain a number of hit points equal to double your Fist of the Sublime Way level plus your current Integration of Inner Armor bonus.


Master of Movement: By learning to combine your Monk speed and strength with a Sword Sage’s grace, you learn to run like the wind. You gain a +10 foot bonus to your unarmored movement speed and slow fall distance, as well as a +5 bonus to Jump checks. Furthermore, as a Swift Action, if you expend one of your readied maneuvers, you may either use your Slow Fall ability even if you are not within arms reach of a wall or recieve an additional +5 bonus on a single Jump check. At level 9 your gain an additional +10 bonus to your unarmored speed, and you may fall any distance without injury.


Improved Evasion: If there’s one thing both the Monk and Sword Sage can agree on, getting hit is bad. By combining their lore on the matter, you gain Improved Evasion at Level 7.


Special Restrictions: A Fist of the Sublime Way is a dedicated martial artist that focuses purely on the pursuit of the body as a living weapon. As such, the character cannot use any of his martial maneuvers with weapons of any kind, and armor hampers many of their abilities. When using a weapon other than their unarmed abilities, the Fist suffers a -3 penalty to accuracy. Due to the extreme focus and harmony created by a Fists training, magical items that boost stats do not affect them in any way. Temporary boosts from spells cast by allies, techniques boosts or similar temporary increases still work, since their effects fade shortly, but magic items that increase ability scores while worn do not affect a Fist at all.

Fax Celestis
2007-04-25, 09:35 AM
No Flurry progression? I am a sad panda.

Pax_Chi
2007-04-25, 11:48 AM
No Flurry progression? I am a sad panda.

I figured with the the full BAB and 10 ranks of Sword Sage techniques, Flurry would be overkill, especially when there's ToB techniques that allow you to attack more Flurry style and who have maneuvers that allow them to do extra effects with every hit. The potential for abuse was just too solid in my mind. I don't want something that'll munchkin this build more than it already is.

Though who knows, I could be overestimating the Flurry abuse potential and this build might actually be underpowered, though I don't think it is.

IonizedChicken
2007-04-25, 12:14 PM
Nice class. I'm really against multi-classing restrictions though.

A couple of notes:
Master of Movement: I see no reason for the sacrifice of a readied maneuver for the day. Slow Falling isn't exactly a key ability in DND.

Martial Healing: Does this take a Swift action? I personally think it should.

Also, what's the Hit Die of the class? :P

Pax_Chi
2007-04-25, 12:50 PM
Nice class.

Thank you.


I'm really against multi-classing restrictions though.

I decided to take a page from the Sacred Fist here, though its mostly for flavor than anything else. The idea is simply that the focused required to combine the elements of both classes is such that to stray from it by taking levels in any other class disrupts the harmony you've been trying to cultivate. Though it might be possible to start back on the road again if you atone or something similar. Ultimately tho, it's not a crucial part of the character and can be sacrificed if I need to.


A couple of notes:
Master of Movement: I see no reason for the sacrifice of a readied maneuver for the day. Slow Falling isn't exactly a key ability in DND.

Roy might disagree. ;)

But the idea here was that Fists can slow fall like Monks without fail, but if they want to slow fall with nothing to hold on to, then it requires them focus their ki to make themselves lighter and fall without damage. Though perhaps losing an entire maneuver for the day is too much, even if it allows you to survive a fall from any height.

Maybe if you expend a readied maneuver, but rather than the normal maneuver going off, you gain the ability to slow your fall without the need for a hand hold. Perhaps you can expend a maneuver and get an additional +5 bonus to Jump checks as well. How does that sound?


Martial Healing: Does this take a Swift action? I personally think it should.

A Swift Action works for me. I'll edit it in.

Do you think the health you regain is too little, too much or just right?


Also, what's the Hit Die of the class? :P

Edited in.

Fax Celestis
2007-04-25, 02:25 PM
But the idea here was that Fists can slow fall like Monks without fail, but if they want to slow fall with nothing to hold on to, then it requires them focus their ki to make themselves lighter and fall without damage. Though perhaps losing an entire maneuver for the day is too much, even if it allows you to survive a fall from any height.

Maybe if you expend a readied maneuver, but rather than the normal maneuver going off, you gain the ability to slow your fall without the need for a hand hold. Perhaps you can expend a maneuver and get an additional +5 bonus to Jump checks as well. How does that sound?

Right. Other martial adept PrCs (Deepstone Sentinel, Eternal Blade, Bloodstorm Blade, etc). have ways to power a class feature via a maneuver expenditure.

Pax_Chi
2007-04-25, 04:40 PM
Okay, went back and made Mastery of Movement cost a single maneuver expenditure for the no-wall slow fall and the additional +5 Jump bonus rather than a sacrificed maneuver for the day.

Ceiling009
2007-04-25, 07:40 PM
I feel sort of wierd about the double Wis for AC... as that the Sword Sage is allowed to wear light armor and still retain his wisdom AC bonus. I do have a character thats monk/sword sage and has about a 32 AC at about level 14... with armor... now does inner armor allow for armor or is like the monk AC bonus of no armor?

ooops, i didn't read all of it... okay, now that makes sense... though with a ring of protection +4, bracers of armor +4, and 22 dex/wis.... that's an easy 30 AC

Pax_Chi
2007-04-25, 08:32 PM
I feel sort of wierd about the double Wis for AC... as that the Sword Sage is allowed to wear light armor and still retain his wisdom AC bonus. I do have a character thats monk/sword sage and has about a 32 AC at about level 14... with armor... now does inner armor allow for armor or is like the monk AC bonus of no armor?

ooops, i didn't read all of it... okay, now that makes sense... though with a ring of protection +4, bracers of armor +4, and 22 dex/wis.... that's an easy 30 AC

Wouldn't a 22 Dex and Wis be almost enough to give you an AC 30 by themselves, depending on your FoSW level? A 22 = +6, so that's 10 + 6 for Dex + 12 for the Wis AC + 3 for a 10th level FoSW = 31. Though 22 scores in Dex and Wisdom isn't exactly easy to come by.

Hmmmmmm, I might up the per level AC bonus while putting a restriction on magic items that give an AC bonus, or simply state that they 'count' as armor. The basic goal for this guy is someone who can fight without weapons or armor at all and skill kick lots of ass, leaving all of the loot for his buddies in the adventuring party.

Pax_Chi
2007-04-26, 01:55 AM
Okay, I went back and made a few changes.

I got rid of the Multi-Class limitation and changed the weapon penalty to a flat -3 penalty. I changed the Integration of Inner Armor so that the Fist gains more AC to of set the lack of armor and items, though if they wear light armor in conjunction with those items, the AC bonus will be the only thing affected. I also upped the Hit Die.

Pax_Chi
2007-04-26, 01:08 PM
I also went back and made the using of your Maneuvers Readied for Movement Mastery and Martial Healing Swift Actions.

I just realized I need to put a skill list in there as well.

Pax_Chi
2007-04-26, 10:47 PM
I'm also thinking about maybe changing this so that if the Fist wears armor and magic enhancements, he loses everything but the Swordsage bonus to AC, but also adding a feature that doubles their Dex bonus to AC so long as they aren't aren't wearing any armor. Double Dex plus Double Wis plus the +5 bonus to AC at the end of the level should give a Fist who has 16-18's in Dex and Wis a pretty hefty AC bonus to compensate for not being able to wear armor or use mystic item bonuses.

Or, to perhap make it less over-powered, allow a Fist to retain their basic Dex and Wis bonus to AC, but if they expend a Readied Maneuver, their Wisdom and Dex AC bonuses are doubled for the rest of that scene/encounter/fight. This gives them a hefty AC bonus while costing them to focus to achieve it.

Pax_Chi
2007-04-29, 01:34 AM
Hmmmmm, probably not a good sign when I've made more posts than everyone else in the thread combined.

Crystall_Myr
2007-04-29, 01:41 AM
It probably is. :smallwink:

It looks like an interesting PrC, but I'm not a good judge at power, so I can't give you any revisions.

Pax_Chi
2007-04-29, 04:05 PM
It probably is. :smallwink:

It looks like an interesting PrC, but I'm not a good judge at power, so I can't give you any revisions.

Well, I appreciate the effort anyway, thanks. :smallbiggrin:

Pax_Chi
2007-04-29, 04:14 PM
Okay, this class is finally coming together.

I re-definined Integration of Internal Armor so that it gives the Double Wisdom boost, and he retains his Swordsabe Wisdom bonus to AC if he uses Light Armor or Mystic Items, though he loses his additional Monk Wisdom bonus to AC.

I also made the the level based AC bonus a separate ability, one that can potentially be really useful but which relies on the Swordsage being in a martial stance to take advantage of it. This gives a potentially great AC bonus for those that want to replicate the martial artist who becomes incredibly hard to hit while in a martial arts stance, while those that want magic item buffs can still go that route and not feel like they're missing out since this AC buff requires a martial stance.

Ceiling009
2007-04-29, 07:16 PM
I do like the expended focus, but I mean if you're a character like a monk who couldn't use armor... or weapons, at level 14 you'd have enough money to buy items to pump dex and wis easy to 22 each... and let's say you're really lucky and got like 18's or 16's so you'd have to buy +6 item at most costing maybe 36k each... and maybe that mithril armor... cause you went swordsage... thats' like... 73k... when at like level 14 you start off with 150k gold... and getting the rest of the items... would be about another 34k... I wonder though, maybe you could make it that they have an intolerance to magic items almost... but using focus makes up for it... like that double dex boost or wis boost... since they're getting to the point of being magical anyway.

Pax_Chi
2007-04-29, 07:46 PM
I do like the expended focus, but I mean if you're a character like a monk who couldn't use armor... or weapons, at level 14 you'd have enough money to buy items to pump dex and wis easy to 22 each... and let's say you're really lucky and got like 18's or 16's so you'd have to buy +6 item at most costing maybe 36k each... and maybe that mithril armor... cause you went swordsage... thats' like... 73k... when at like level 14 you start off with 150k gold... and getting the rest of the items... would be about another 34k... I wonder though, maybe you could make it that they have an intolerance to magic items almost... but using focus makes up for it... like that double dex boost or wis boost... since they're getting to the point of being magical anyway.

I like the Magic Item intollerance idea and added it into the restrictions section of the write up.

I'm not sure I need to include the Expend Focus : Double Dex bonus to AC ability I was contemplating earlier, since now a Fist with, say, an 18 Dex and Wis will have a total +12 AC bonus from Dex and Integration of Internal Armor, as well as a +10 bonus from Defensive Stance at level 10. That's an AC of 32 before the Monk employs any other abilities or stances that increase AC.

Pax_Chi
2007-05-04, 10:25 PM
Just topping this while I figure out if there's anything else that needs changing.