Arcane Hierophant: What schools to ban? Nonmetal Chain shirt?

[Snowbluff]

Human Druid4/Wizard1/Archeir1.

Feats: Versatile Spellcaster, Craft Wondrous Item, Practiced Spellcaster:Wizard, and Natural Spell.

I want to focus specialize as a wizard, but I'm not sure what schools would be best improve/ban with druid casting.

I also want some cheap, non-metal material to make a chain shirt out of. I'm looking at blue ice, but it makes me chilly.

[Brova]

The best schools to ban are, in order: Evocation, Enchantment/Illusion (if your DM uses counters), Necromancy, Illusion (if your DM doesn't use counters) Abjuration, Enchantment (if your DM doesn't use counters), Conjuration and Transmutation. You might be able to push up conjuration because the Druid side will provide a lot of the battlefield control and summoning that is the top level reason to get conjuration. As far as specific synergies go, the power of mixing spell lists (particularly with one class four levels behind) is a lot less than the power of just casting spells which are good. I'd probably either specialize as a Diviner (banning evocation) or a Conjurer/Transmuter (banning evocation and one of illusion/necromancy/enchantment depending on game specifics). Honestly though, specializing doesn't do a whole lot of good. Particularly in your case I'd be looking to use the Wizard side of things for utility, and you don't want to be in a position of randomly needing to cast command undead after banning necromancy (or something like that).

[Zaydos]

I'd definitely put Evocation at the top of the list. While that means losing out on Wall of Force/Contingency, druid blast spells tend to be on par with or even better than some of your wizard options (use primarily evocation when playing an AH myself but that was partially because Round Robin DMing ended up me DMing with a DMPC they whined when I tried to write out).

I'd consider Abjuration as my second banned school, though. Of the remaining schools it's the one druid best replicates the necessary functions. You need at least one caster with Abjuration for Dispel if nothing else and while druid is worse at dispelling (Druid 4 instead of Wizard 3) it still gets it. Unlike say Necromancy or Enchantment's key effects which a high level druid can eventually duplicate but are the hardest for them to manage.

And as for the armor nothing comes immediately to mind since you can't make chain shirt from dragonscales.

[eggynack]

I'd agree with the assertion that you shouldn't specialize at all. The usual plan, as was noted, would likely be to ban enchantment, necromancy, and probably either evocation or illusion depending on preference. However, out of those, enchantment, necromancy, and illusion all represent schools of magic that druids are quite bad at. This means that a lot of the utility you'd get from arcane hierophant is lost. As such, I suppose you'd probably want to ditch evocation, because its few pieces of unique utility are mostly covered by the druid list, necromancy, because its unique stuff is a bit less important than most, and abjuration, because you're already getting dispel magic, though losing magic circle for binding purposes is annoying.

But, again, it's not ideal. Those schools, especially the latter two, do in fact have good things that you're losing. Moreover, while variety is a thing you seek in this path, the very nature of a theurge means that spells per day is not a thing you're lacking. So, you are trading something important for something far less important, and that's never a good way to go. Instead, maybe just use domain wizard, or even don't, because simply not specializing is still better than specializing in this circumstance. Specializing in divination and banning evocation might be fine, though you're still losing resilient sphere and contingency, so it's not great.

[Snowbluff]

I'm specializing or grabbing a domain, then.

Which of the wizard domains would you suggest?

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'd definitely put Evocation at the top of the list. While that means losing out on Wall of Force/Contingency, druid blast spells tend to be on par with or even better than some of your wizard options (use primarily evocation when playing an AH myself but that was partially because Round Robin DMing ended up me DMing with a DMPC they whined when I tried to write out).

I'd consider Abjuration as my second banned school, though. Of the remaining schools it's the one druid best replicates the necessary functions. You need at least one caster with Abjuration for Dispel if nothing else and while druid is worse at dispelling (Druid 4 instead of Wizard 3) it still gets it. Unlike say Necromancy or Enchantment's key effects which a high level druid can eventually duplicate but are the hardest for them to manage.

And as for the armor nothing comes immediately to mind since you can't make chain shirt from dragonscales.

I find Druids painfully lacking in the Abjurations department. Not having the dimensional anchor/lock spells, nor banishment/dismissal, nor Stoneskin, nor AMF, nor Spell Turning or Spell Resistance, nor Mind Blank... Even among the few key ones they do have, they get late access to dispel. I would not want to drop Abjuration for this build, unless maybe if you're taking the Gatekeeper Initiate feat.

Evocation is easy to ban, Druid does have a lot of the blasting covered, and Shadow Evocation line can eventually give you Contingency. Main loss is the force spells, especially wall of force and resilient sphere. I think Enchantment is also a good choice, it's just...too narrow, and when it works well can easily be so game-breaking that you shy away from it anyway. That's two...why must you be a focused specialist? I guess w/ Gatekeeper you could get away w/o Abjuration...

[eggynack]

I'm specializing or grabbing a domain, then.

Which of the wizard domains would you suggest?
Domains aren't really about adding spells so much as just having a list that you're going to be making use of on a frequent basis, and that you may have prepared anyway, which means that conjuration and transmutation are typical high end choices. Most of the spells on those lists are pretty good or great. I dunno what the answer is to armoring stuff, incidentally. I tend to just use luminous armor, because it's sweet business.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Domains aren't really about adding spells so much as just having a list that you're going to be making use of on a frequent basis, and that you may have prepared anyway, which means that conjuration and transmutation are typical high end choices.

Domain Wizard is about getting free spell slots for nothing. Which is why I ban it.

[Snowbluff]

I find Druids painfully lacking in the Abjurations department. Not having the dimensional anchor/lock spells, nor banishment/dismissal, nor Stoneskin, nor AMF, nor Spell Turning or Spell Resistance, nor Mind Blank... Even among the few key ones they do have, they get late access to dispel. I would not want to drop Abjuration for this build, unless maybe if you're taking the Gatekeeper Initiate feat.

Evocation is easy to ban, Druid does have a lot of the blasting covered, and Shadow Evocation line can eventually give you Contingency. Main loss is the force spells, especially wall of force and resilient sphere. I think Enchantment is also a good choice, it's just...too narrow, and when it works well can easily be so game-breaking that you shy away from it anyway. That's two...why must you be a focused specialist? I guess w/ Gatekeeper you could get away w/o Abjuration...
There's not much point not to focus specialize. I won't have the spell slots to cover all of my utility uses with my 2 levels of wizard casting, and so it would just mostly be filling in for my druid casting's weaknesses.

Domains aren't really about adding spells so much as just having a list that you're going to be making use of on a frequent basis, and that you may have prepared anyway, which means that conjuration and transmutation are typical high end choices. Most of the spells on those lists are pretty good or great. I dunno what the answer is to armoring stuff, incidentally. I tend to just use luminous armor, because it's sweet business.
Well, I'm gestalted with Swordsage, so I'd have to at least being wearing light armor. :smalltongue:

Besides, I always abuse Luminous Armor. It's time to mix it up.

EDIT: Is there an amulet slot item that will let me talk while in wildshape?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Your DM is allowing a dual progression PrC in a gestalt game? The rules for gestalt specifically mention that a DM shouldn't do that.


A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels. Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best aspects of each, and applies them to his characteristics. A few caveats apply, however.

A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level, although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant. Because it’s possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the game master is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it’s available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.

[Snowbluff]

The DM okayed it. My wizard stuff is mostly gimped.

Wait... I need a head slot item that lets me talk, not amulet...

[eggynack]

Wait... I need a head slot item that lets me talk, not amulet...
It's face rather than head, but the pearl of speech (MIC, 118) is the typical option for wild shape chatting for its incredibly low price as well as the fact that its melding may make it usable without a clasp.

[Snowbluff]

It's face rather than head, but the pearl of speech (MIC, 118) is the typical option for wild shape chatting for its incredibly low price as well as the fact that its melding may make it usable without a clasp.

I'm trying to avoid rules limbo. The pearl was my back up option if I could not get something clear cut.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ghost Sound should work for speaking. More reason not to ban Illusion.

[Snowbluff]

Ghost Sound should work for speaking. More reason not to ban Illusion.

Mhm. That and silent image is a first level wizard spell. I would ban illusion... if I was crazy.

[Darrin]

I also want some cheap, non-metal material to make a chain shirt out of. I'm looking at blue ice, but it makes me chilly.

Darkleaf. A&EG p. 19 or ECS p. 120. A&EG version is +750 GP for light armor, ECS version can't do light for some reason but the darkleaf breastplate (2450 GP) is probably everything you need from nonmetallic light armor.

There's also Sentira (Secrets of Sarlona), that has the same price/properties as mithral, but is sculpted out of some sort of ceramic material... it sounds like it's nonmetallic, but I've never been able to nail that down in an official capacity.

[Snowbluff]

Thanks, Darrin!