A question on zombification and the soul

[AniThyng]

With all this talk of zombie roy and so on so forth, I want to know - what exactly happens to the soul of a zombified person? do they just go on to the upper planes or afterlife or whatever or are they yanked back into the zombie body? And why is everyone so sad that roy died even though it's patently obvious there is an afterlife, nevermind the whole ressurection bit?

[jindra34]

Rich would decide what happens to the soul....

[factotum]

A true zombie is a completely mindless creature--whatever is animating it is NOT the original soul of the person whose corpse it is made from. In fact, most Undead are like that in D&D--free-willed undead still motivated by the soul they had when alive (like Xykon, the Huecuva etc.) are usually the most powerful examples.

Of course, having said that, even a True Resurrection spell cannot restore life to someone who is currently Undead, which implies there is SOME sort of link between the spirit of the dead person and their Undead body...

[Alysar]

Of course, having said that, even a True Resurrection spell cannot restore life to someone who is currently Undead, which implies there is SOME sort of link between the spirit of the dead person and their Undead body...

Thanks. That was something I was wondering about.

[taraxia]

A true zombie is a completely mindless creature--whatever is animating it is NOT the original soul of the person whose corpse it is made from. In fact, most Undead are like that in D&D--free-willed undead still motivated by the soul they had when alive (like Xykon, the Huecuva etc.) are usually the most powerful examples.

Er, actually, Libris Mortis makes it pretty clear that you retain consciousness for everything except being a Mindless Undead (Skeleton or Zombie). Ghouls, Wights and Wraiths are hardly the most powerful of Undead, and they have Int of 13, 11 and 14, respectively.

The question of what happens to the soul of an Undead creature is an open one that the rules don't address. A DM can rule any way they want, with the "soul bound to the Zombie" explanation being a totally reasonable one.

[mockingbyrd7]

Question: What happens if you "kill" an undead? Can you resurrect it then? In other words, could Roy be zombified, but the Order defeats him and gets him rezzed?

[jindra34]

Question: What happens if you "kill" an undead? Can you resurrect it then? In other words, could Roy be zombified, but the Order defeats him and gets him rezzed?

Yeeppppppppppppp

[ZeroNumerous]

Actually no, you cannot. Raise dead and Resurrection do not function on destroyed undead(LM). However, miracle, wish, or true resurrection(which don't need pieces of the body) will work on destroyed undead.

[Eldae]

You can use Resurrection on undead that have been destroyed. From the SRD description of Resurrection:
"You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed."

[ZeroNumerous]

Oh ya, forgot resurrection can still work on ash.

[Da Luniz]

Alysar

you sicken me

WE DONT KNOW IF SANGWAAN IS DEAD!!!
:annoyed:
sure she was bitten then thrown...at least a mile threw the air. but theres a chance she hit water at a low angle and therefore would have survived the impact

[Midnight Lurker]

Actually no, you cannot. Raise dead and Resurrection do not function on destroyed undead(LM). However, miracle, wish, or true resurrection(which don't need pieces of the body) will work on destroyed undead.

Personally, I'd rule that true res could create a new body even for someone whose zombified corpse was still lurching about... :smalltongue:

[Alysar]

Alysar

you sicken me

WE DONT KNOW IF SANGWAAN IS DEAD!!!
:annoyed:
sure she was bitten then thrown...at least a mile threw the air. but theres a chance she hit water at a low angle and therefore would have survived the impact

If it turns out she survived, I'll remove it :smallwink:

No one will be happier than me

[Callista]

My theory is that turning someone into a zombie works a lot like a Trap the Soul spell--the soul is trapped in the body, unconscious and unable to do anything. That's why turning someone into a zombie/skeleton, putting them in a lead-lined box, and throwing the box in the sea is the best low-level way to prevent Resurrection.

You can use that for a plot hook: "The party finds an animated skeleton in a box at the bottom of a dry lake bed..." Works best for a high level party, because a low level party will just kill the skeleton and move on. A high level party will wonder, "How come the DM's throwing a skeleton at us when we can kill vampires? There's got to be more to this," and investigate.

[Silverlocke980]

Wouldn't it be crazy if Roy came back as a Lich?

Imagine the insanity there!

(I know he's a fighter, but what if some of Xykon's magic from the crown rubbed off on him? Come on, you know you want it to happen anyway.)

[Callista]

Nah, that'd bend the rules too far even for OotS. Liches have to be spellcasters of a certain level, have to create phylacteries, have to go through a ritual... Roy isn't any of that.

[ZeroNumerous]

Personally, I'd rule that true res could create a new body even for someone whose zombified corpse was still lurching about... :smalltongue:

It doesn't work like that. Their soul is still attached to their old body, so True Resurrection(which requires someone to be dead) wouldn't be able to revive them. I suggest anyone who's still debating that to have a good read of Libris Mortis. It's a great book, plus it answers many of the questions of undeath.

[Da Luniz]

If it turns out she survived, I'll remove it :smallwink:

No one will be happier than me

I look forward to your retraction of her Obituary

[BisectedBrioche]

Alysar

you sicken me

WE DONT KNOW IF SANGWAAN IS DEAD!!!
:annoyed:
sure she was bitten then thrown...at least a mile threw the air. but theres a chance she hit water at a low angle and therefore would have survived the impact

If Sangwaan is still alive I'll eat my hat.And its made of duct tape http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8331/ducttapehatqx7.jpg

[Finwe]

There are some, if very few, types of intelligent undead that are not inherently evil, and which would not be dumb for a fighter (i.e. incorporeal, or something similar). I can't remember any off of the top of my head, but they definitely exist.

[Jayabalard]

A true zombie is a completely mindless creature--whatever is animating it is NOT the original soul of the person whose corpse it is made from. In fact, most Undead are like that in D&D--free-willed undead still motivated by the soul they had when alive (like Xykon, the Huecuva etc.) are usually the most powerful examples.

Of course, having said that, even a True Resurrection spell cannot restore life to someone who is currently Undead, which implies there is SOME sort of link between the spirit of the dead person and their Undead body...I'm sure it doesn't use the entirety of the soul... but based on the way it blocks ressurection, it seems likely that it's using part of it...

[Solmage]

Actually, it makes perfect sense that undead-ifying someone traps their soul in the undead form, so it doesn't go to heaven etc. That's why when you destroy the undead the cliche is that "now their soul is finally at rest..." (instead of experiencing a torturous existence trapped in a body they can't control, watching their unending atrocities..)

[Da Luniz]

There are some, if very few, types of intelligent undead that are not inherently evil, and which would not be dumb for a fighter (i.e. incorporeal, or something similar). I can't remember any off of the top of my head, but they definitely exist.

ya, theres a "Good" Lich
they have some special name, they just saw undeath as a way to continue their studies.

[BisectedBrioche]

ya, theres a "Good" Lich
they have some special name, they just saw undeath as a way to continue their studies.

You mean an archliche? There's also some sort of elven version which has a name begining with B, but thats all I recall.

[Lyinginbedmon]

There's a Good Lich variant in Libris Mortis