Prestige Classes Reintroduced

[mr_odd]

So, I was going through some 3.5 books looking for spells and abilities to add into my homebrewed 5e system, and I realized just how much I love the idea of prestige classes. Now, we all know that prestige classes found their way into 5e through archetypes, and while I love that implementation, the archetypes fail to do two things.

Since everyone has an archetype, (or specialization or domain), archetypes no longer feel prestigious. Instead they simply feel like part of the overall class.

Secondly, prestige classes that were designed around a specific concept can be hard to implement.

So what if prestige classes were introduced as a second archetype that could be taken later down the class build? What if prestige classes were their own class, but were only accessible at certain levels in certain classes?

Do not get me wrong, I love archetypes and how they were implemented. I'm just curious as to the concept and wanted to spark a discussion about it. The next time I build a character, I want to create something out of a 3.5 prestige class, and I want it to mechanically work as opposed to just thematically.

So the floor is open to everyone's opinions, thoughts, and snide remarks. Thank you, and watch out for any wandering Beholders.

[Shining Wrath]

There's a touch of this with warlocks, where there are invocations you can only take if you choose a certain pact. I think all you need, building on the existing framework, is to have a set of class features for a class which require one another as prerequisites, and you gain them instead of the base archetype features at the same levels. The "gate" feature has, perhaps, special prerequisites to make this archetype "prestigious".

For example, you could establish some sort of prestigious barbarian - a smart barbarian, requiring an intelligence of 13 or more and the ability to cast at least one spell (e.g., Magic Initiate), and a level of 6 or less.

Then at levels 6, 10, and 14, you gain a class feature that plays off being smart and is a little bit better than what Frenzy or Totem are getting, because you are prestigious. Maybe at level 10 you gain the ability to add your Int modifier to attack rolls and damage rolls while raging - fluff wise, your rage gives you uncanny concentration on attacking your foes. Stuff like that.

Edit: the level 10 feature requires the level 6 feature, the level 14 requires level 10. If you only want the level 6 feature, you can take your "normal" feature instead at level 10, but that means you'll never get the level 14 prestige feature. That's why you have to qualify for the prestige class before level 6.

[pwykersotz]

If one wanted to introduce something like that, I would propose starting with a system similar to Epic Boons. Choose a few abilities that are keyed to the concept you are trying to attain 'Prestige' in, and have the character attain the title and grow in ability over the next 5 levels or so. I'd keep them decoupled from level, leaving it entirely in the hands of GM and Player cooperation, like the Half-Dragon template.

Optional:
Limit the number of 'Prestige Classes' that one person can have
Establish a minimum level requirement
Have there be a cost for learning, and make it partially mechanical instead of pure RP
Establish guidelines for developing your own, so that 20th level players can create their own sect and future players can use some of their abilities

This is all off the top of my head. I'd personally rather create new archetypes, but I can definitely see the fun in this as well. :smallsmile:

[Stan]

I played around a bit and I think some prestige classes can be turned into feats that have prerequisites, some of which may be roleplaying related. Then any class could take the prestige feat instead of if being tied into the archetype of a specific class.

Some prestige classes had a few really cool abilities then the standard BAB and saves, plus other abilities very similar to another class. 5e feats are bigger than 3e feats so you could have multiple powers in one feat. In extreme cases, you could have 2 feats as a tiny feat chain.

You also do it the way dragonmarks are presented in the UA, where not every part of the feat kicks in right away.

[mr_odd]

If one wanted to introduce something like that, I would propose starting with a system similar to Epic Boons. Choose a few abilities that are keyed to the concept you are trying to attain 'Prestige' in, and have the character attain the title and grow in ability over the next 5 levels or so. I'd keep them decoupled from level, leaving it entirely in the hands of GM and Player cooperation, like the Half-Dragon template.


You also do it the way dragonmarks are presented in the UA, where not every part of the feat kicks in right away.

Hmm, I really like the idea of Epic Boons and Dragonmarks. That way you can have abilities that tie into a very specific concept (like Master of Masks, Truenamer, or Alienist) while also keeping to a class that is similar in nature.

[Ruslan]

To me, personally, the Archetypes feel like Prestige Classes. I honestly don't feel the need for 3.x-style PrCs. YMMV.

[mr_odd]

To me, personally, the Archetypes feel like Prestige Classes. I honestly don't feel the need for 3.x-style PrCs. YMMV.

I think the more specific ones have that feeling over others (ex. Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, Dragon Sorcerer), but other archetypes seem to feel like part of the base class (ex. champion, hunter, specializations, domains, wild magic sorcerer, etc.).