[3.PF] Effects of everything in the world Gestalting with Bard.

[The Vagabond]

Primarily as a question- In a 3.PF world, what would be the effects of everything in the world Gestalting with Bard on society. I'm thinking things get more community oriented, with a heavy focus on paying attention to any mild changes to their personality, but also paranoia about any minor changes to your allies behavior.

Keep in mind, when I say everything, I mean EVERYTHING. This includes the animals, plants, and zombies, though they don't really do anything by default.

Secondly- What about if some Undead and Aberrations were gestalted with a Psionic class, rather than a Bard class?

[frogglesmash]

Secondly- What about if some Undead and Aberrations were gestalted with a Psionic class, rather than a Bard class?

I have no real thoughts on this matter beyond mentioning that mindflayers would be even more mindflayeresque.

[A Tad Insane]

Firstly, bursting out into random song is not only culturally acceptable, but there will be people who'll actually join in.
Mook armies are more dangerous.
There would be a deluge of gossip and rumors of forbidden secrets.

[ksbsnowowl]

On a more mechanical side, everyone would be a lot more sneaky, and a lot more observant, depending on how they spent their skill points. Society will be more skillful in general. Everyone but spellcasters will be of stronger mind (higher will saves), and ~30% (?) of the population will be able to use curative magic (Cure Light Wounds, assuming they choose that), and all will be able to use wands of such spells.

[MightBeABook]

High HD monsters become nothing short of terrifying, because all of a sudden they've got epic-level casting. Slow-casting, admittedly, but Improved Spell Capacity is easy enough if you've got huge HD. A Seismosaurus with ISC x3 can take Epic Spellcasting. It's ordinarily CR 12.

[Almarck]

Firstly, bursting out into random song is not only culturally acceptable, but there will be people who'll actually join in.
Mook armies are more dangerous.
There would be a deluge of gossip and rumors of forbidden secrets.
Essentially the world turns into like every kid's show ever that had musical productions?

MLP: FiM in some episodes, plenty of Disney works, Don Bluth's stuff, a sizable chunk of the 90's....

In fact, I fully expect black dragons with venemous breath able to melt armies breaking into musicals in a metareference to Lion King'sScar



High HD monsters become nothing short of terrifying, because all of a sudden they've got epic-level casting. Slow-casting, admittedly, but Improved Spell Capacity is easy enough if you've got huge HD. A Seismosaurus with ISC x3 can take Epic Spellcasting. It's ordinarily CR 12.

Of course, this will be somewhat offset by well... everything else having magic, especially PCs of appropriate levels.


Also, everyone can use most of the common wands like the Cure series, will be able to haste, cast glitter dust... Everything has magic and bardic knowledge.


In short, the entire setting turns into a high fantasy verse full of magical singing wizards.

[SolarSystem]

High HD monsters become nothing short of terrifying, because all of a sudden they've got epic-level casting. Slow-casting, admittedly, but Improved Spell Capacity is easy enough if you've got huge HD. A Seismosaurus with ISC x3 can take Epic Spellcasting. It's ordinarily CR 12.

The various possibilities this brings to mind are absolutely terrifying.


On the other hand, sound-dependent abilities such as the Harpy's Captivating Song are going to be nearly useless since everyone and everything can roll countersong checks. (Yeah, I'm carrying a bunch of potted plants all ready to play a countersong as I enter the harpy's lair...)

[mvpmack]

Of course, this will be somewhat offset by well... everything else having magic, especially PCs of appropriate levels.


The answer to weapons of mass destruction is not to give everyone weapons of mass destruction.

Everything high level has access to suggestion, which pretty much ruins the day of anything low level. It's not likely to result in outright global destruction the way that gestalting everything to sorceror would, but the high level characters would naturally be able to control the actions of the world at large using mind control.

It doesn't help that fascination is almost impossible to save against, even for low levels against high levels.

It's likely to result in a world with no warfare and a lot of political games.

[Extra Anchovies]

What's your end goal here, Vagabond? Everything gestalt with bard has some clearly flaws (CR 12 creatures with Epic Spellcasting), but there's probably another way to accomplish what you want.

[ExLibrisMortis]

A lot of people would have heavy inspire (courage, greatness, heroics) buffs up. Groups, especially, would never really run out of music uses, they'd be under its effects in every fight. Other possible morale bonuses to to-hit and damage would be much less common, and full-blown mind-affecting immunity would be somewhat less popular.

Undead/abberations could be stronger than other types, if gestalted with a psionic class, rather than bard. It depends on whether you pick a full-manifesting class (psion, wilder, erudite, ardent) or a partial-manifesting class (psychic warrior, lurk - don't mention the divine mind). 6th-level powers include some powerful things, like temporal acceleration (also known as quickened time stop), but that's not on the psywar/lurk list.

[The Vagabond]

Firstly, bursting out into random song is not only culturally acceptable, but there will be people who'll actually join in.
Mook armies are more dangerous.
There would be a deluge of gossip and rumors of forbidden secrets.
Alright- This makes sense. And Mook Armies become incredibly terrifying- There's a Warchanter in nearly every army, and with an Alphorn, you end up with 1 HD minions with full base attack.

High HD monsters become nothing short of terrifying, because all of a sudden they've got epic-level casting. Slow-casting, admittedly, but Improved Spell Capacity is easy enough if you've got huge HD. A Seismosaurus with ISC x3 can take Epic Spellcasting. It's ordinarily CR 12.
Ah... Probably should have mentioned- With CRed creatures, I'd be treating it's bard level as it's CR, rather than it's HD. Which is significantly more balanced than that method, and results in things that don't kill everyone with epic magic.

The answer to weapons of mass destruction is not to give everyone weapons of mass destruction.
Everything high level has access to suggestion, which pretty much ruins the day of anything low level. It's not likely to result in outright global destruction the way that gestalting everything to sorceror would, but the high level characters would naturally be able to control the actions of the world at large using mind control.
It doesn't help that fascination is almost impossible to save against, even for low levels against high levels.
It's likely to result in a world with no warfare and a lot of political games. Right- This is probably where I should have mentioned pages ago about, you know, that it's the Pathfinder bard they're Gestalting with. Doesn't change much, but makes Fascinate FAR more dealable with. Also- Countersong somewhat counters Fascinate, with Perform checks and tons of Aid Another. I'll be porting the Alphorn from Songs and Silence, probably as different instrument.
I think you got that backwards, but yeah. 3.5's Fascinate is overpowering, but thankfully I'm going with the 1/2 level + Cha mod save.
Alright- Lots of politics, backstabbing, ect. What would a feat that grants re-rolls against bard effect this?


What's your end goal here, Vagabond? Everything gestalt with bard has some clearly flaws (CR 12 creatures with Epic Spellcasting), but there's probably another way to accomplish what you want.
Here? Primarily to flesh out a campaign setting I'm working on, seeing if anyone else has any ideas about how differently things should go. In general, it's the same- See how a campaign setting where everything Gestalt with bards would look.


The various possibilities this brings to mind are absolutely terrifying.

On the other hand, sound-dependent abilities such as the Harpy's Captivating Song are going to be nearly useless since everyone and everything can roll countersong checks. (Yeah, I'm carrying a bunch of potted plants all ready to play a countersong as I enter the harpy's lair...)*Sits down to contemplate*
... Yeah that's terrifying.

On the other hands- Who's to say that your potted plants want to countersong for ya, huh? What if they just like to randomly burst into Dirge of Doom, or Inspire Heroics or instead? You can't stop them.

[Extra Anchovies]

Hm. Pathfinder Bard. That's actually really good, because they're much more diverse (archetypes, yo). I'd set my Bard half to Archaeologist and reap others' morale bonuses while stacking on insight bonuses of my own :smallamused:

[Bad Wolf]

There'd be a lot more Half-Dragons, Half-Fey, Half-Trolls, Half-Celestials, Half-Fiends, Half-Elementals...you get the point. A lot more love to go around.

[Extra Anchovies]

There'd be a lot more Half-Dragons, Half-Fey, Half-Trolls, Half-Celestials, Half-Fiends, Half-Elementals...you get the point. A lot more love to go around.

I don't understand why that is. If it's PF bard, even first-level characters have a chance at differentiating between their species and other species, which would likely cut down on the number of half-breeds :smalltongue:

Joking aside, I actually don't understand your reasoning.

[Bad Wolf]

I don't understand why that is. If it's PF bard, even first-level characters have a chance at differentiating between their species and other species, which would likely cut down on the number of half-breeds :smalltongue:

Joking aside, I actually don't understand your reasoning.

I'm referring to that bards are generally painted as the Casanova type that will sleep with anything.

[Almarck]

I'm referring to that bards are generally painted as the Casanova type that will sleep with anything.

Even bandits (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0156.html)

Actually with that in mind, wouldn't everyone's Sense Motive checks be corrispondingly high to negate that? Or is the fact that everyone is already on a "lensman arms race" of Charisma that it offsets that kind of behavior?