Shiloh
2015-06-13, 06:48 PM
(See the Changelog) Debihuman
Xerlith
Admiral Squish
SkipSandwich
With this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?414143-Making-parrying-part-of-AC&highlight=parry) coming up in the 3.5 subforums about a month ago, I decided that I wanted to pull out the parrying mechanics I've homebrewed, dust them off, and bring them to the playground to get some feedback. I know different methods of parrying have been beaten to death, but I was never quite satisfied with the systems I was able to find, and wanted to implement systems that could work well for high-Dex characters who used weapon finesse or for high-Str characters fighting with a greatsword. Although I made these rules some time ago and have playtested them substantially, I've been meaning to bring them here for feedback as I'm absolutely certain that they can be improved. I welcome any criticism on them! Specifically, I think the feats and various penalties can be ironed out better, but I'm a bit stuck with that.
So, without further ado, I'd like to present:
Shiloh's Parrying Rules for 3.5
A skilled duelist may wish to parry an incoming melee attack rather than block the attack as normal. In this instance, the defending character is initiating a parry--an attempt to block the attack using her weapon rather than her armor.
Parry Checks
Two characters in a parry make opposing attack rolls with their equipped weapon (the attacker uses the attack roll that the defender is parrying against; the defender makes a new roll). Whichever character has a higher check is considered to “win” the parry.
Parry check modifiers
Encumbrance: A character (attacker or defender) carrying a medium load receives a -2 penalty on parry checks, and a character carrying a heavy load receives a -6 penalty on parry checks.
Defender penalties: The defending character who initiates the parry receives a -6 penalty on his parry check. This penalty is reduced to -4 for finessable melee weapons, and increased to -8 for ranged weapons that are ineffective in melee combat. If the defender has the weapon finesse feat, all of these penalties are reduced by 2 (to -4, -2, and -6, respectively).
Unarmed: An unarmed character can attempt to parry an incoming attack, albeit at a -4 penalty.
Special: A monk, or other character who does not take penalties on unarmed attacks, does not take this penalty.
Shield Parry: A character who parries with a shield may add the shield’s AC modifier to his parry check, but doing so forfeits the shield bonus to AC for the remainder of the round.
Starting a parry
The possibility for a parry is opened up by a normal attack roll or an attack of opportunity. It is initiated by the defending character, and must be declared prior to the initial attack roll. A parry can only be initiated if a character is aware of the attack: it cannot be initiated to defend against sneak attacks, during a surprise round, or any other time where a character is caught unaware and/or flat-footed. Additionally, a parry can only be used to defend against normal melee attacks; ranged attacks and powers cannot be parried.
Each parry that a character makes uses up one of the character’s attacks of opportunity for that round; only a character with the Combat Reflexes feat or similar ability granting extra attacks of opportunity can make more than one parry in a round, or make both an attack of opportunity and a parry in the same round.
Results of a parry
The result of a parry depends on who wins the opposed parry check.
Defender fails to successfully parry the attack
If the attacker wins the parry check, then the following conditions arise: The attack connects, and the original attack roll is applied against the defender’s flat-footed armor class. A successful attack may deal bonus damage equal to the margin by which the attacker beat the defender in the parry, to a maximum of the attacker’s strength modifier.
The defender provokes an attack of opportunity from any characters who threaten his space.
If the attacker has the Improved Disarm feat, he automatically disarms the defender if he wins the parry check by 5 or more.
Defender successfully parries the attack
If the defender wins the parry check, then the following conditions arise: The attack does not connect, regardless of the defender’s armor class.
If the defender has the Improved Disarm feat, he automatically disarms the attacker if he wins the parry check by 5 or more.
New Feats
Improved Parry (General, Fighter)
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Weapon Focus
Benefit: Choose one type of weapon for which you already have the Weapon Focus feat. When wielding that weapon and defending in a parry that you initiated, parry check penalties for being the defending character are all reduced by 4 (this cannot turn the penalties into bonuses).
Normal: The defending character in a parry receives a -4 penalty on her parry check if she is wielding a weapon finesse weapon. This penalty is increased to -6 for all other melee weapons, and increased to -8 for ranged weapons that are ineffective in melee combat. If the defender has the Weapon Finesse feat, all of these penalties are reduced by 2.
Special: A fighter may select Improved Parry as one of his fighter bonus feats.
You can select this feat more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, it applies to a new weapon.
Greater Parry (General, Fighter)
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Weapon Focus, Improved Parry
Benefit: Choose one type of weapon for which you already have the Improved Parry feat. When wielding that weapon and defending in a parry that you initiated, parry check penalties for being the defending character are all reduced by 2 (this stacks with the penalty reduction granted by Improved Parry). This can turn the penalties into bonuses.
Normal: The defending character in a parry receives a -4 penalty on her parry check if she is wielding a weapon finesse weapon. This penalty is increased to -6 for all other melee weapons, and increased to -8 for ranged weapons that are ineffective in melee combat. If the defender has the Weapon Finesse feat, all of these penalties are reduced by 2. With the Improved Parry feat, all of these penalties are reduced by 4, but this cannot turn the penalties into bonuses.
Special: A fighter may select Greater Parry as one of his fighter bonus feats.
You can select this feat more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, it applies to a new weapon.
Parrying and Combat Facing
The Combat Facing variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/combatFacing.htm) provides some extra flavor to parrying: Only a skilled character could manage to parry against incoming attacks from their flank or rear; as such, the -5 flank attack and -10 rear attack penalties imposed by the Combat Facing variant will also heavily affect a player’s decision whether or not to attempt a parry against an enemy (since the result of a failing parry is invariably worse than the result if you had never attempted to parry in the first place).
Parrying and Armor as Damage Reduction
Parrying rules also work exceptionally well in conjunction with the Armor as Damage Reduction variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm), because the results of a failed parry (in terms of damage dealt to the character who attempted a parry) are better reflected as only being protected by the armor. To further increase the risk of attempting a parry against an exceptional opponent, you could modify the rules so that on a failed parry attempt, the attack automatically connects and also succeeds, so that damage is immediately rolled for and applied against the armor’s damage reduction.
Also, for convenience:
Table: Defender's penalties/bonuses in a parry
Weapon Type
Weapon Finesse Weapon
Other Melee Weapon
Ranged Weapon
Regular Penalties
-4
-6
-8
Character has the Weapon Finesse feat
-2
-4
-6
Character has the Improved Parry feat
Character has the Improved Parry feat and the Weapon Finesse feat
N/A
-2
-4
Character has the Greater Parry feat
+2
N/A
-2
Character has the Greater Parry feat and the Weapon Finesse feat
+4
+2
N/A
Things I'm already considering changing
I think I could streamline the system much more by simplifying the feats. Namely: Improved Parry and subsequential feats in the chain do not require weapon focus as a prereq, and apply to all attacks instead of just one weapon. This would be very helpful to characters who use multiple weapons (pretty much all characters).
Greater Parry does not offer an extra attack after a successful parry, or else there is a limit on how many times this can happen in a round (probably as low as 1). I don't want an endless chain of parries, but I also don't like limiting the number of parries for a character who has combat reflexes; at higher levels, there could be some real value in being able to parry every attack coming at you in a round from six different enemies. So if I made a change to this feat, I could remove the "limit three parries in a round" rule. CHANGED. Thanks to Debihuman for pointing out how this trashed the action economy.
Simplify the modifiers to the check in some way; i.e. make it to where a parry doesn't pretty much necessitate a player or DM to look at that table I posted above.
So, that should be about it...PEACH away!
Xerlith
Admiral Squish
SkipSandwich
With this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?414143-Making-parrying-part-of-AC&highlight=parry) coming up in the 3.5 subforums about a month ago, I decided that I wanted to pull out the parrying mechanics I've homebrewed, dust them off, and bring them to the playground to get some feedback. I know different methods of parrying have been beaten to death, but I was never quite satisfied with the systems I was able to find, and wanted to implement systems that could work well for high-Dex characters who used weapon finesse or for high-Str characters fighting with a greatsword. Although I made these rules some time ago and have playtested them substantially, I've been meaning to bring them here for feedback as I'm absolutely certain that they can be improved. I welcome any criticism on them! Specifically, I think the feats and various penalties can be ironed out better, but I'm a bit stuck with that.
So, without further ado, I'd like to present:
Shiloh's Parrying Rules for 3.5
A skilled duelist may wish to parry an incoming melee attack rather than block the attack as normal. In this instance, the defending character is initiating a parry--an attempt to block the attack using her weapon rather than her armor.
Parry Checks
Two characters in a parry make opposing attack rolls with their equipped weapon (the attacker uses the attack roll that the defender is parrying against; the defender makes a new roll). Whichever character has a higher check is considered to “win” the parry.
Parry check modifiers
Encumbrance: A character (attacker or defender) carrying a medium load receives a -2 penalty on parry checks, and a character carrying a heavy load receives a -6 penalty on parry checks.
Defender penalties: The defending character who initiates the parry receives a -6 penalty on his parry check. This penalty is reduced to -4 for finessable melee weapons, and increased to -8 for ranged weapons that are ineffective in melee combat. If the defender has the weapon finesse feat, all of these penalties are reduced by 2 (to -4, -2, and -6, respectively).
Unarmed: An unarmed character can attempt to parry an incoming attack, albeit at a -4 penalty.
Special: A monk, or other character who does not take penalties on unarmed attacks, does not take this penalty.
Shield Parry: A character who parries with a shield may add the shield’s AC modifier to his parry check, but doing so forfeits the shield bonus to AC for the remainder of the round.
Starting a parry
The possibility for a parry is opened up by a normal attack roll or an attack of opportunity. It is initiated by the defending character, and must be declared prior to the initial attack roll. A parry can only be initiated if a character is aware of the attack: it cannot be initiated to defend against sneak attacks, during a surprise round, or any other time where a character is caught unaware and/or flat-footed. Additionally, a parry can only be used to defend against normal melee attacks; ranged attacks and powers cannot be parried.
Each parry that a character makes uses up one of the character’s attacks of opportunity for that round; only a character with the Combat Reflexes feat or similar ability granting extra attacks of opportunity can make more than one parry in a round, or make both an attack of opportunity and a parry in the same round.
Results of a parry
The result of a parry depends on who wins the opposed parry check.
Defender fails to successfully parry the attack
If the attacker wins the parry check, then the following conditions arise: The attack connects, and the original attack roll is applied against the defender’s flat-footed armor class. A successful attack may deal bonus damage equal to the margin by which the attacker beat the defender in the parry, to a maximum of the attacker’s strength modifier.
The defender provokes an attack of opportunity from any characters who threaten his space.
If the attacker has the Improved Disarm feat, he automatically disarms the defender if he wins the parry check by 5 or more.
Defender successfully parries the attack
If the defender wins the parry check, then the following conditions arise: The attack does not connect, regardless of the defender’s armor class.
If the defender has the Improved Disarm feat, he automatically disarms the attacker if he wins the parry check by 5 or more.
New Feats
Improved Parry (General, Fighter)
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Weapon Focus
Benefit: Choose one type of weapon for which you already have the Weapon Focus feat. When wielding that weapon and defending in a parry that you initiated, parry check penalties for being the defending character are all reduced by 4 (this cannot turn the penalties into bonuses).
Normal: The defending character in a parry receives a -4 penalty on her parry check if she is wielding a weapon finesse weapon. This penalty is increased to -6 for all other melee weapons, and increased to -8 for ranged weapons that are ineffective in melee combat. If the defender has the Weapon Finesse feat, all of these penalties are reduced by 2.
Special: A fighter may select Improved Parry as one of his fighter bonus feats.
You can select this feat more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, it applies to a new weapon.
Greater Parry (General, Fighter)
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Weapon Focus, Improved Parry
Benefit: Choose one type of weapon for which you already have the Improved Parry feat. When wielding that weapon and defending in a parry that you initiated, parry check penalties for being the defending character are all reduced by 2 (this stacks with the penalty reduction granted by Improved Parry). This can turn the penalties into bonuses.
Normal: The defending character in a parry receives a -4 penalty on her parry check if she is wielding a weapon finesse weapon. This penalty is increased to -6 for all other melee weapons, and increased to -8 for ranged weapons that are ineffective in melee combat. If the defender has the Weapon Finesse feat, all of these penalties are reduced by 2. With the Improved Parry feat, all of these penalties are reduced by 4, but this cannot turn the penalties into bonuses.
Special: A fighter may select Greater Parry as one of his fighter bonus feats.
You can select this feat more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, it applies to a new weapon.
Parrying and Combat Facing
The Combat Facing variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/combatFacing.htm) provides some extra flavor to parrying: Only a skilled character could manage to parry against incoming attacks from their flank or rear; as such, the -5 flank attack and -10 rear attack penalties imposed by the Combat Facing variant will also heavily affect a player’s decision whether or not to attempt a parry against an enemy (since the result of a failing parry is invariably worse than the result if you had never attempted to parry in the first place).
Parrying and Armor as Damage Reduction
Parrying rules also work exceptionally well in conjunction with the Armor as Damage Reduction variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm), because the results of a failed parry (in terms of damage dealt to the character who attempted a parry) are better reflected as only being protected by the armor. To further increase the risk of attempting a parry against an exceptional opponent, you could modify the rules so that on a failed parry attempt, the attack automatically connects and also succeeds, so that damage is immediately rolled for and applied against the armor’s damage reduction.
Also, for convenience:
Table: Defender's penalties/bonuses in a parry
Weapon Type
Weapon Finesse Weapon
Other Melee Weapon
Ranged Weapon
Regular Penalties
-4
-6
-8
Character has the Weapon Finesse feat
-2
-4
-6
Character has the Improved Parry feat
Character has the Improved Parry feat and the Weapon Finesse feat
N/A
-2
-4
Character has the Greater Parry feat
+2
N/A
-2
Character has the Greater Parry feat and the Weapon Finesse feat
+4
+2
N/A
Things I'm already considering changing
I think I could streamline the system much more by simplifying the feats. Namely: Improved Parry and subsequential feats in the chain do not require weapon focus as a prereq, and apply to all attacks instead of just one weapon. This would be very helpful to characters who use multiple weapons (pretty much all characters).
Greater Parry does not offer an extra attack after a successful parry, or else there is a limit on how many times this can happen in a round (probably as low as 1). I don't want an endless chain of parries, but I also don't like limiting the number of parries for a character who has combat reflexes; at higher levels, there could be some real value in being able to parry every attack coming at you in a round from six different enemies. So if I made a change to this feat, I could remove the "limit three parries in a round" rule. CHANGED. Thanks to Debihuman for pointing out how this trashed the action economy.
Simplify the modifiers to the check in some way; i.e. make it to where a parry doesn't pretty much necessitate a player or DM to look at that table I posted above.
So, that should be about it...PEACH away!