Hide Life Spell

[EdRed]

Greetings Playground!
I have a question about the 3.0 Spell Hide Life from Tome and Blood.

To sum it up shortly, you store your life energy in a body part, which is thereafter detached and hidden.
While your hidden bodypart is intact, you are unable to die by means of hp damage.

But there is a part of the description, which i am hopefully allowed to cite:

If you would otherwise be dead, you cannot benefit from healing and simply fall down dead if the spell is ended.

So what i take from that is, that you are unable to be healed via magic or the healing skill if you are below -10 hp.
But what about normale regeneration from resting?
What about fast healing?
Or are you unable to be get better at all?
If you can't be brought back into positive hp, wouldn't that be worse than being dead at this point?

Is there any kind of consensus about this part?

[Uncle Pine]

Hide Life says "if you would otherwise be dead, you cannot benefit from healing and simply fall down dead if the spell is ended", which means that with Hide Life on you can fight even at -666 hit points (but you are staggered). However, if someone destroys your hidden body part while you are at -666 hit points you simply drop dead. In other words, if Hide Life ends leaving in a condition in which you would normally be dead you die on the spot.

By the way, you can always quote non-Open Gaming Content for the purpose of asking clarifications or discussing how it works, etc.

[Necroticplague]

Greetings Playground!
I have a question about the 3.0 Spell Hide Life from Tome and Blood.

To sum it up shortly, you store your life energy in a body part, which is thereafter detached and hidden.
While your hidden bodypart is intact, you are unable to die by means of hp damage.

But there is a part of the description, which i am hopefully allowed to cite:

If you would otherwise be dead, you cannot benefit from healing and simply fall down dead if the spell is ended.

So what i take from that is, that you are unable to be healed via magic or the healing skill if you are below -10 hp.
But what about normale regeneration from resting?
What about fast healing?
Or are you unable to be get better at all?
If you can't be brought back into positive hp, wouldn't that be worse than being dead at this point?

Is there any kind of consensus about this part?
No form of healing at all works. Once you would normally be dead, you're stuck that way until the spell wears off (and you actually die). This is notable because the spell essentially staggers you when you would be dead. There are other spells that can get rid of that weakness (Beastland Ferocity comes to mind), though. Of course, you could always just re-cast Hide Life to buy yourself another day of time (preferably with Eschew Materials so you don't run out of fingers).

[Uncle Pine]

No form of healing at all works. Once you would normally be dead, you're stuck that way until the spell wears off (and you actually die). This is notable because the spell essentially staggers you when you would be dead. There are other spells that can get rid of that weakness (Beastland Ferocity comes to mind), though. Of course, you could always just re-cast Hide Life to buy yourself another day of time (preferably with Eschew Materials so you don't run out of fingers).

Since the spell says "once the spell takes effect, you can no longer be killed by ordinary means: If damage or a spell effect would normally render you disabled, dying, or dead, you ignore the usual effects. Instead, you are staggered (only able to take partial actions)" and that "healing does not automatically return you to 0 hit points but simply adjusts your current total upward", I believe that "if you would otherwise be dead, you cannot benefit from healing and simply fall down dead if the spell is ended" should be parsed as "[if you would otherwise be dead], [you cannot benefit from healing and simply fall down dead if the spell is ended]" instead of "[if you would otherwise be dead, you cannot benefit from healing] and [simply fall down dead if the spell is ended]". Otherwise, the spell would contradict itself.

[Necroticplague]

Since the spell says "once the spell takes effect, you can no longer be killed by ordinary means: If damage or a spell effect would normally render you disabled, dying, or dead, you ignore the usual effects. Instead, you are staggered (only able to take partial actions)" and that "healing does not automatically return you to 0 hit points but simply adjusts your current total upward", I believe that "if you would otherwise be dead, you cannot benefit from healing and simply fall down dead if the spell is ended" should be parsed as "[if you would otherwise be dead], [you cannot benefit from healing and simply fall down dead if the spell is ended]" instead of "[if you would otherwise be dead, you cannot benefit from healing] and [simply fall down dead if the spell is ended]". Otherwise, the spell would contradict itself.
Huh? I agree with you. The 'simply fall down if the spell is ended' has to be a result of 'if you would otherwise be dead' for the spell to make logical sense. I'm not sure where the disagreement is (or at least, the implied one from quoting me).

When you have hide life on, you have 3 statuses:
1. HP>1:No effect.
2.-9<HP< 0: You're staggered, but can be healed.
3.HP<-10:You're staggered, and healing doesn't work on you anymore in any form.

[Uncle Pine]

Huh? I agree with you. The 'simply fall down if the spell is ended' has to be a result of 'if you would otherwise be dead' for the spell to make logical sense. I'm not sure where the disagreement is (or at least, the implied one from quoting me).

When you have hide life on, you have 3 statuses:
1. HP>1:No effect.
2.-9<HP< 0: You're staggered, but can be healed.
3.HP<-10:You're staggered, and healing doesn't work on you anymore in any form.

My thought was:
1. HP>1: no effect.
2. -9<HP<0: you're staggered, but can be healed.
3. HP<10: you're staggered and you can be healed but you drop dead if Hide Life is ended.

That's because I read "you cannot benefit from healing" as referring to the fact that if Hide Life ends while you would otherwise be dead you don't have a period of time in which you can be healed. Reading it another couple of times made me realize that I was parsing the spell's description in the wrong way and that your interpretation is correct.
I'm sorry for the confusion. :smallredface:

[Segev]

Hide life plus transcend mortality could be a fun blaze of glory in which to go out. Cast the latter several times in a row as you trample your foes. Sure, you'll die when hide life wears off, but you've dodged it for a little while.

[Venger]

Hide life plus transcend mortality could be a fun blaze of glory in which to go out. Cast the latter several times in a row as you trample your foes. Sure, you'll die when hide life wears off, but you've dodged it for a little while.

just use pact of return.

[Segev]

True. Hide life then lets you use only one pact of return with multiple transcend mortailities.

(The clause about being unable to recover, effectively, from being dead makes hide life a near-useless spell without some sort of strategy to abuse it, to my mind.)

[EdRed]

Thanks for all your input!
Well, being unable to recover at all is kind of a serious drawback for a level 9 spell :smallannoyed:
Seems somewhat inconvenient, if you should find yourself reduced to a pile of ash or otherwise immobilized since you wouldn't be able to dismiss the spell (instantaneous) and you will most likely be the only one to know the location of your bodypart.
Kinda worse off than being dead.
But as you said, i guess it has its uses.

[erok0809]

When I use this spell as a DM, I get rid of the thing that says you can't be healed in any way. I just follow the sentence before it, which says that healing doesn't return you to 0, but just adjusts your current total upward. Otherwise, as soon as you would be dead, you are staggered for the rest of your life until the part of your body you have your life hidden in is destroyed. That seems...super underwhelming for a 9th level spell.

[Segev]

Solution! Be an Anima Mage and bind Haagenti! Then, when reduced to ash, you just use her refusal to have her form altered to resume your own form!

[Venger]

Solution! Be an Anima Mage and bind Haagenti! Then, when reduced to ash, you just use her refusal to have her form altered to resume your own form!

hope you're reduced to ash on your turn, otherwise you can't take the free action to activate haagenti's immunity to transformation. even then, piles of ash, being objects, unfortunately can't take actions.

if only they'd just said "you're immune to effects that transform you" or something

[Segev]

hope you're reduced to ash on your turn, otherwise you can't take the free action to activate haagenti's immunity to transformation. even then, piles of ash, being objects, unfortunately can't take actions.

if only they'd just said "you're immune to effects that transform you" or something

It technically says "you can..." which could be argued to be a case of specific trumping general. *shrug*

[Venger]

It technically says "you can..." which could be argued to be a case of specific trumping general. *shrug*

unfortunately not. primary trumps secondary trumps specific trumps general.

[frogglesmash]

Getting a contingent Revivify could solve the dropping dead issue.

[Segev]

unfortunately not. primary trumps secondary trumps specific trumps general.

Er... how is "primary" different from "general," here?