Trying to recreate my player's Eldritch Knight, nothing stops him.

[DontEatRawHagis]

He is level 9 currently going to be level 10 after tonights session. Here is what I can extrapolate from what he's told me of his character:

Human
Fighter Eldritch Knight build
Strength is 18
Weapon is a Glaive +1
Fighting Style - Great Weapon Fighting
Feats
Polearm Master?
Great Weapon Master?
Charger?
Warcaster?
DM Perk - His glaive has a knife on the end that makes his extra polearm attack 1d6 piercing instead of 1d4 bludgeoning.

Note: I have talked with the player, but when it comes to his feats I've heard him say the benefits of all of these helped his character. One of these he switched out, but I can't remember which.

So from how I understand it:

Attack Bonus = +8 (Prof 4 + Str 4)
With Great Weapon Master his Attack Bonus is +3 with +10 damage
When Charging he is at +5 damage.
So on a charge where he uses Great Weapon Fighter he is at: +3 to hit, +15 damage.
He rerolls 1s and 2s for damage.


So I am guessing that he is not utilizing the Great Weapon Master feat anymore, because most of his attacks are at least +8 to hit. I have yet to see him miss a single attack. The highest I've heard him say he's roll without being a critical is a 28, so I am assuming that this is him rolling a 19 on the die.(8 to hit + the +1 weapon)

1d10 + 4 for damage on a hit. The range is about 5 - 14 with the reroll he is more likely to roll 7-14.

With Charging that number turns to 12 - 19 dmg.

With Great Weapon Fighter = 27 - 34.

Bringing it all together:

His average d20 roll seems to be high. Highest number he's said to me is 28.
For damage output its roughly 50 damage in one turn. Lowest I think he did was 35.
I have never seen him miss a single attack.
Occasionally he will followup attacks with Magic Missile.


Lastly this guy loves breaking games and we use his house to host sessions. I cannot kick him out of the group or reprimand him at all except by making his character contract STDs. The DnD group is not mine, we have been running games for 8 years with roughly the same group of people and not once has a person been kicked out. If I were to kick him out the fallout would be enough to destroy the entire group.

So far my plan is to just put him up against high level monsters while I do encounter creation for the rest of the party. So far this has been working, but I was wondering if anyone else had advice?

[ronlugge]

Never missing a single attack is... suspicious. He should roll a 1 eventually!

[Giant2005]

If he is using Charger, he can only make a single attack per round that would inflict 1D10+10 (+10 more if he is using GWM).
If he isn't using Charger, he can make three attacks per round. The first two each inflict 1D10+5 and the third inflicts 1D6+5 (+10 to each attack if he is using GWM).

I'm assuming he isn't using Charger due to that destroying his damage potential and from what you have said about his accuracy (Never missing and being able to hit scores up to 28), he doesn't seem to be using GWM either.
That would mean he should be inflicting a total of 2D10+1D6+15 per round for an average of 29.5 damage.
Worth noting is that if he has taken 4 feats, he must be a human that hasn't taken a single ASI. That means his initial roll for Strength was a natural 17 or more on a 4D6b3.

[Anlashok]

If you're the DM why do you need to extrapolate and guess what his character is?

[ChubbyRain]

Lastly this guy loves breaking games and we use his house to host sessions. I cannot kick him out of the group or reprimand him at all except by making his character contract STDs. The DnD group is not mine, we have been running games for 8 years with roughly the same group of people and not once has a person been kicked out. If I were to kick him out the fallout would be enough to destroy the entire group.

So far my plan is to just put him up against high level monsters while I do encounter creation for the rest of the party. So far this has been working, but I was wondering if anyone else had advice?

You already lost power to actually do anything about it so just roll with it. Make sure everyone else is having fun.

Being passive aggressive toward the player will just escalate things into causing more problems.

Look for a new group if you don't like how your current one is playing. Ask others in the group if they are ok with this players attitude. Talk to the player about NOT breaking the game.

[Arial Black]

You're the DM. You can ask to see his character sheet at any time. There is no information on there (game mechanic wise) that you are not allowed to know.

You don't need to guess or re-create the information, just look at the sheet and ask the player for clarification when you want it.

[EggKookoo]

I'm really curious how you run a session. Don't you see the dice he throws?

[Occasional Sage]

As the DM, you not only have the RIGHT to see his character sheet at any time, you NEED to have access to it (and all character sheets) both to build adventures and to enforce the game's and house's rules. This is a basic and non-negotiable thing at any table.

That aside, is there a social contract/gentlepersons' agreement in use in this game? If so, is it being violated, and how many people feel this way (or would, if your suspicions about rules violations are correct)?

[rollingForInit]

You need to look at his character sheet. And everybody's.

How else can you design encounters to maximise the fun and make appropriate challenges?

[DontEatRawHagis]

I'm really curious how you run a session. Don't you see the dice he throws?
My players have played enough that they can guess a monster's AC after a few attacks. Typically I'll say "You know a 17 hits, but a 15 misses."

As far as the dice go he rolls them on his book and is at the other end of a long table.

I asked for his character sheet before, but his character has changed since then. Ge keeps losing his character sheet and printing off new ones.

He is currently fighting me on tie goes to attacker for AC. Early on we played Spycraft and the GM at the time decided that ties go to defender would be better for the players. I made it known D&D has tie goes to attacker in this game and now he is pissed off with me completely.

He isn't a bad guy normally but when it comes to breaking games sometimes I feel he is just misinterpreting the rules.

I'm going to see if I can take a look at his character sheet again tonight.

[ChubbyRain]

My players have played enough that they can guess a monster's AC after a few attacks. Typically I'll say "You know a 17 hits, but a 15 misses."

As far as the dice go he rolls them on his book and is at the other end of a long table.

I asked for his character sheet before, but his character has changed since then. Ge keeps losing his character sheet and printing off new ones.

He is currently fighting me on tie goes to attacker for AC. Early on we played Spycraft and the GM at the time decided that ties go to defender would be better for the players. I made it known D&D has tie goes to attacker in this game and now he is pissed off with me completely.

He isn't a bad guy normally but when it comes to breaking games sometimes I feel he is just misinterpreting the rules.

I'm going to see if I can take a look at his character sheet again tonight.

See, it doesn't matter if he isn't a bad guy normally, D&D isn't a normal setting. I've had friends that I didn't want to take bowling or play pick up basketball with because when they play, they are jerks.

However because they were good people outside of that we are able to remain friends. *

Being disclosed sucks but if the reason is right then they should understand.

But next time he fights you for control of rules and the game, just ask him to DM the next game.

Talk to the others too, see where they stand.

D&D is about fun and if one person I.causing a problem you have to deal with it like an adult or else the problem will get worse.

*edit

Think Glen Quagmire from family guy when he plays sports with the others, but outside of sports they are friends.

[Madeiner]

Something is not working at your table, i believe.

You not only CAN, you MUST check each sheet. Then, if it is consistent of the rules, and if you like the character enough, you can grace him by allowing the favor of playing said character.
Not the other way around.

[EggKookoo]

Back when I first started playing D&D -- and I'm talking serious dark ages here -- we had a player like this. He got to the point where he could kind of cow the DM and control the action. We were inexperienced enough that we weren't sure what was going on and he was charismatic enough to keep most of us entertained, but we were never really satisfied with the game. He ended up shooting himself in the foot when he decided to experiment with PvP and killed my character for no reason except to see my reaction.

After I got over my surprise, I decided not to argue or complain. I simply stopped playing, and eventually found another group to play with. Years later, this player had joined us and true to his personality tried to dominate the DM. But by then we had built up enough confidence and experience to keep him mostly in line, and he eventually lost interest and moved on.

He's in sales now and is doing quite well.

I don't know why I'm going on about this except to say that you're not alone when it comes to difficult players. Finding a group you're comfortable with is crucial.

[Arial Black]

On the issue of 'tie goes to the attacker'. The truth is that DCs and ACs are simply target numbers, and if you equal or exceed that target, then you succeed.

[AuraTwilight]

Why in the actual hell would a GM not know what someone's character sheet is?

[ChubbyRain]

Why in the actual hell would a GM not know what someone's character sheet is?

Because someone is abusing the fact that they are friends outside of the game and not being very respectful.

This is why managers are pushed to not be friends with their workers... The workers may try to abuse their relationship or not respect the manager.

[CNagy]

Insist that you get a copy of everyone's character sheet, and then make bare-bones character cards so that you can see their pertinent combat stats at a glance. Get a DM screen or two and sit in the middle of the table instead of at one end. It sucks that there are players you actively have to work to keep honest, but it happens.

[ProphetSword]

Ge keeps losing his character sheet and printing off new ones.

This is the point where you say: "Hey, let me keep everyone's characters between gaming sessions. That way, no one will lose them and no one will need to print off new ones anymore."

Because, honestly, what does a player need his character for outside the game?

[squab]

Straight up tell him you need his (and everyone else) character sheets to make plan good encounters?

[WampDiesel]

This is the point where you say: "Hey, let me keep everyone's characters between gaming sessions. That way, no one will lose them and no one will need to print off new ones anymore."

Because, honestly, what does a player need his character for outside the game?

This. So very much this.

A player in my main group has just entrusted me with his sheet for the last two years. I have a big clipboard that I keep everything on for the two campaigns I am currently in. Since we play at my house he knows his sheet will be there.

Our last DM for my other group didn't allow our rogue to level up for like 3 weeks because he forgot his character sheet. The rogue said something like "I think I am 300XP away from lvl 6" The DM countered with "The only thing I know is that you are level 5. So you are at base EXP for lvl 5 until you can prove to me otherwise."

It is perfectly fine for players to hide their character sheets from other players. Under no circumstances should players keep their sheets from the DM. At least get a photocopy so when his magical weapon starts doing fire DMG you have ground to stand on to counter the obvious shenanigans.

[HockeyPokeyBard]

I've played with and been a DM for these kinds of people and straight up my thoughts go to die fudging. If he only needs a 12 to hit most things and he knows it, he can get away with an array of numbers that seem random but he's actually pulling out of his head. I suggest you subtly ask someone you trust to discretely keep an eye on his roles for you. Most players don't like it when their team members cheat. Trust me on that. And maybe check that his die are random and haven't been altered in anyway. There are a lot of resources on Youtube that can teach you how to check.

If everything is above board after you've checked die and/or character sheets and his rolling is all legal then I suggest slowly using other players to show that failing can be just as useful. Have a character every now and then get pushed into a more clearly advantageous situation after they fail something and try to do it as randomly as possible. Your party and the player in question will never know if it is better or worse to fail a roll in any given situation and so they'll just let luck decide. Or at least that's how it seems to have worked for me.

All suggestions so far have been great though and best of luck to you.

[ThermalSlapShot]

OP, have you tried running 2e Tomb of Horrors?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Horrors

I saw a 5e conversion somewhere, if I find it I'll post it here but really it shouldn't be that hard to convert.

Tell the group you want to mix it up a bit and to make new characters.

Random note, Tomb of Horrors was specifically made for power gamers/experts. Have the party bring back up characters because everyone will probably dienonce or twice during the first session alone.


"All four modules of the S-series were included as part of the Dungeons of Dread hardcover collection, released on March 19, 2013.[18] Lawrence Schick wrote in the foreword: "The dungeon of the demi-lich Acererak was, for Gary, a kind of thought experiment: If an undead sorcerer really wanted to keep his tomb from being plundered by greedy adventurers, how would he do it? The answer, of course, was to defend the crypt with tricks and traps designed not to challenge the intruders but to kill them dead. And furthermore, to do it in ways so horrific that all but the most determined party would give up and leave well enough alone."[9] - wikipedia article

If the PC doesn't die here then he will be the odd man out and everyone will know something is up.

[Ziegander]

He is level 9 currently going to be level 10 after tonights session. Here is what I can extrapolate from what he's told me of his character:

Human
Fighter Eldritch Knight build
Strength is 18
Weapon is a Glaive +1
Fighting Style - Great Weapon Fighting
Feats
Polearm Master?
Great Weapon Master?
Charger?
Warcaster?
DM Perk - His glaive has a knife on the end that makes his extra polearm attack 1d6 piercing instead of 1d4 bludgeoning.

Note: I have talked with the player, but when it comes to his feats I've heard him say the benefits of all of these helped his character. One of these he switched out, but I can't remember which.

If we accept that he is a Variant Human, then at Fighter level 9, the player would have three ability score improvements as well as a bonus feat from his race, +4 proficiency bonus, and a 1pt bump to two chosen ability scores. This tells me that the table must have rolled for stats rather than used point buy or any arrays, and is already troubling for me. Were you always the DM for this campaign? If so, you seem to be concerned with inter-party balance, yet rolling for stats is one of the most basic, swingy ways a DM can contribute to the imbalance of his or her party.

If you had instead used a point buy, even a higher point buy like 30pts, you and the rest of us could know that with a maxed Strength, some of his other scores would have to suffer. All I know at this point is that his Strength started at 18 at 1st level and he has never improved it. For all I know he's got a Dexterity of 14, a Constitution of 17, Intelligence 16, Wisdom 16, and Charisma 13.

But you seem to be worried that he's dominating the game via straight physical damage with a polearm. It is true that straight up damage is a stronger asset to the party in this edition than it was in, say, 3rd edition, but it still shouldn't be dominating the world. It's not like he deals enough damage per round, even when he's going all out on damage, to dispatch level-appropriate enemies in even two rounds. I mean, come on, (flips to a random page in the Monster Manual), even a Cambion, CR 5, has 82 hit points. It would take your destroyer of worlds three rounds of concentrated fire against this guy, without missing a single attack (he has a 55% chance to hit), to kill him. In the meantime, the Cambion can swing at him for 24 average damage per round or try to stick Fiendish Charm on him. Depending on how min-maxed this guy is exactly, the Cambion has between a 50% and 65% (or so) chance to give him commands for an entire day turn on his own party and start wrecking their lives (with a new save each time he's dealt damage or given a suicidal command). Again, this is just one CR 5 creature that should be able to give him trouble.


So from how I understand it:

Attack Bonus = +8 (Prof 4 + Str 4)
With Great Weapon Master his Attack Bonus is +3 with +10 damage
When Charging he is at +5 damage.
So on a charge where he uses Great Weapon Fighter he is at: +3 to hit, +15 damage.
He rerolls 1s and 2s for damage.


So I am guessing that he is not utilizing the Great Weapon Master feat anymore, because most of his attacks are at least +8 to hit. I have yet to see him miss a single attack. The highest I've heard him say he's roll without being a critical is a 28, so I am assuming that this is him rolling a 19 on the die.(8 to hit + the +1 weapon)

1d10 + 4 for damage on a hit. The range is about 5 - 14 with the reroll he is more likely to roll 7-14.

If you're DMing, you're going to need to know at minimum how the basic math works, but I'm beginning to suspect that perhaps this player you're worried about either knows more than you do about how to DM the game, or thinks that you don't know enough about how to DM the game and can get away with making up rules.

With 18 Strength, 9 levels, and a +1 weapon, his attack bonus will be +9. Each swing of his Polearm will deal a base of 1d10 + 5. As a Fighter, the character will have the Extra Attack feature which allows him to make one additional attack whenever he uses the Attack Action on his turn. As such, Great Weapon Master can combine with Charger or with Polearm Master, but Charger does not combine with Polearm Master (or vice versa).


With Charging that number turns to 12 - 19 dmg.

With Great Weapon Fighter = 27 - 34.

Bringing it all together:

His average d20 roll seems to be high. Highest number he's said to me is 28.
For damage output its roughly 50 damage in one turn. Lowest I think he did was 35.
I have never seen him miss a single attack.
Occasionally he will followup attacks with Magic Missile.


And here's where it all falls down, of course (your ability as a DM, I mean, no offense to you as a person). If we accept that his damage output per turn seems to be about 50, then either you are very wrong about your numbers, or the player is bull****ting you and you don't realize it. Average damage for an attack action without using Charger or Great Weapon Master (for -5 to hit, +10 to dmg) is 1d10 (5.5) + 1d10 (5.5) + 1d6 (3.5) + 15 or 29.5 (already pointed out to you by Giant2005). If his lowest damage in the session was significantly higher than that, he's lying to you.

Against CR 3 enemies (four of which give an encounter budget of 2800 × 2, or 5600, right in the middle of a medium and hard encounter for a group of four 9th level PCs), the average AC at that level is 14. Your problem character will hit on a 5 or higher, which means that 80% of his attacks will hit, or that one in every five attacks should miss. In even a single game session (unless your sessions are unusually short), this player should miss with one or two attacks.

And the worst part about this is that he will occasionally followup attacks, plural, with Magic Missile. At 7th level, Eldritch Knights gain the ability to make one, single, weapon attack as a bonus action after they use their Action to cast a cantrip. Magic Missile is not a cantrip, and if he is making multiple attacks with a weapon, then he must be using the Attack Action, which means he could not possibly have used his action to cast a cantrip (were Magic Missile a cantrip in the first place). As DM, it's your job to understand all these rules and to correct your players when they want to do something that the rules do not allow. It is absolutely unreasonable to allow a player to use the Attack Action and then cast a spell as a bonus action, and the player surely knows that. That you do not shows your inexperience as a 5e DM.


I asked for his character sheet before, but his character has changed since then. Ge keeps losing his character sheet and printing off new ones.

How many times has he changed his character? You get free rebuilds up to 4th level, anything else is DM handout (like the knife at the end of his Polearm). How many times has he "lost" his character sheet? You should be suspicious that he's losing his character sheet just so you don't get to look at it, and you should demand that he gives you an updated character sheet and that if he wants to make an changes after giving you one, that he must ask you if he is allowed to before going through with them.


He is currently fighting me on tie goes to attacker for AC. Early on we played Spycraft and the GM at the time decided that ties go to defender would be better for the players. I made it known D&D has tie goes to attacker in this game and now he is pissed off with me completely.

He isn't a bad guy normally but when it comes to breaking games sometimes I feel he is just misinterpreting the rules.

This is just absurd. Rules for different games are obviously going to be different. And you shouldn't feel he is misinterpreting the rules, you should know.

[Celcey]

As far as the dice go he rolls them on his book and is at the other end of a long table.

New rule: if the DM can't see your roll, it is invalid. Rolling on books can be iffy, and it's perfectly fair to ask that he roll where everyone can see it.



I asked for his character sheet before, but his character has changed since then. He keeps losing his character sheet and printing off new ones.

So you keep his sheet. Or you make a copy of it. He can't have all of those feats (unless you guys are high enough level for him to, in which case, he can). It sounds like he's the type of player you really need to keep on top of to make sure he follows the rules and doesn't try and cheat his way through things.



He is currently fighting me on tie goes to attacker for AC. Early on we played Spycraft and the GM at the time decided that ties go to defender would be better for the players. I made it known D&D has tie goes to attacker in this game and now he is pissed off with me completely.

Show him where in the rules it says this. AC is the target number, as someone mentioned. If he doesn't like it, remind him that this is D&D, not Spycraft, that you guys all agreed to play this system. He has to live with the differences.



He isn't a bad guy normally but when it comes to breaking games sometimes I feel he is just misinterpreting the rules.

I'm going to see if I can take a look at his character sheet again tonight.

Sometimes, people are stupid competitive, and they always want to win, but that makes the game less fun for everyone. Be calm, but be firm in your decisions, and don't let him get away with changing stuff. If he makes a decision (like taking a certain feat) he has to stick with it. It one thing to realize that that such and such feat wasn't so good, and ask you if he could exchange it for something else. It's quite another to take advantage of it.

[KorvinStarmast]

New rule: if the DM can't see your roll, it is invalid.

it's perfectly fair to ask that he roll where everyone can see it. That this player apparently has to be told that is a red flag, IME.
(Personal pet peeve: people who cheat at DnD ... OK, no rant. I have calmed down).


AC is the target number, as someone mentioned. If he doesn't like it, remind him that this is D&D, not Spycraft, that you guys all agreed to play this system. He has to live with the differences. Once again, that this player needs to be told/reminded of this is a red flag.

Sometimes, people are stupid competitive, and they always want to win, but that makes the game less fun for everyone. People like this can create all kinds of friction at a gaming table. My first real experience with this IRL was in the early 80's, to the point that the DM made sure all players (back when 20's had two sets of each digit, and we had to color code them to identify high and low) had to declare "red high" "black high" "blue high" before any roll.

Let's say this person's penchant for reading the higher choice without fail led to this table rule ... one player in the six of us led to that rule.

For the OP: as GM, you don't have to put up with this crap.
Don't.

[Vogonjeltz]

So far my plan is to just put him up against high level monsters while I do encounter creation for the rest of the party. So far this has been working, but I was wondering if anyone else had advice?

Advice on how to frame anything you do: Say it as if it's your own personal failing that's leading to the policy change, not the fault of any of the players.

For example: I'm sorry guys, I'm unable to keep track of some things and I need an updated copy of all your character sheets prior to the next adventure so I can plan accordingly.

And: Hey guys, I'm losing track of numbers, can you just make sure to roll so that I can see it and leave a die out there until I can record it? Thanks!

Presto chango, no filthy cheats can remaindo!

[Celcey]

Advice on how to frame anything you do: Say it as if it's your own personal failing that's leading to the policy change, not the fault of any of the players.

For example: I'm sorry guys, I'm unable to keep track of some things and I need an updated copy of all your character sheets prior to the next adventure so I can plan accordingly.

And: Hey guys, I'm losing track of numbers, can you just make sure to roll so that I can see it and leave a die out there until I can record it? Thanks!

Presto chango, no filthy cheats can remaindo!

This is an excellent idea. Even though it's not your fault, this way the players don't feel like you're accusing them, and you can avoid drama.

[PoeticDwarf]

I'm really curious how you run a session. Don't you see the dice he throws?

Yeah true. You can't play games if you can't see a character sheet AND you can't see the dices...

[Psikerlord]

Your number one responsibility as DM is to maintain intraparty balance. If one PC gets OP, your game will end, coz the other players wont like it, or you'll TPK accidentally trying to challenge the OP guy. You cant manage balance without knowing the PC sheets.

Also, the damage problem is coming from GWM -5/+10 mechanic. Change this to a +1 str or dex instead. If the player doesnt like it, he can choose another feat. Feats are optional. This is a perfectly reasonable request coming from the DM. Having played 5e for a while, it is now clear to you (and I assume the rest of the party?) that this PC combo is broken, and you are taking steps to fix it. No harm, no foul, no body's fault.

It is in the best interests of the table for him to agree, so he will (perhaps begrudgingly at first, but he'll get over it).

Also, everyone should roll where at least one other person can see their rolls.

[Ziegander]

Also, the damage problem is coming from GWM -5/+10 mechanic.

This can't be the problem unless the player is a bigger cheater/liar than I earlier implied. The OP mentioned that the player has not missed a single attack. If he's taking -5 to his attack rolls, then he will miss average AC just about half the time, and will reduce his average damage to being just about the same as it is when he doesn't use it. On the other hand, if he's just adding +10 to his damage rolls and conveniently always hitting anyway, than the player is lying about his -5 penalty, forgetting to apply it, or simply making up dice results.

It's not bad DMing to, in the middle of a session, just simply ask, "Wait. How are you dealing that much damage?" and have a short conversation with the player about their abilities. I've done it, I've had other DMs stop and do it to other players, it's just asking for clarification.

[Alejandro]

How about this? Run a one-session one off game. Make one level 9 PC for each member of the group. Pass the PCs out and let them each pick one to play. Run the game, compare the player's performance to their regular performance. It should become clear pretty quick if anything is going on.