View Full Version : Can my horse cast spells?

2007-04-25, 06:44 PM
What's the easiest way to get a horse to be able to cast spells?

Can it qualify for PC levels if it has the Celestial template?

I want it to be able to Alter Self.

2007-04-25, 06:45 PM
I'm pretty sure it involves peanut butter and string.

2007-04-25, 06:46 PM
hmm it depends is this your run of the mill hourse or you paladin mount :smallconfused:

2007-04-25, 06:49 PM
To take PC levels, a creature must have at least 3 Int. Celestial works, but you'd probably be better off getting a Druid to Awaken him (at least you'll be able to communicate with the animal).

Of course, this won't work if your horse is an animal companion or special mount: They cannot be Awakened without losing that status.

2007-04-25, 06:51 PM
What is it's intelligence? A normal horse doesn't have high enough mental scores to be much more than a coat-hanger. If he's Awakened, that opens up a world of possibilities. I doubt a horse will have a draconic heritage, so wizard levels will be best.

EDIT: Drat! Ninja'd!

2007-04-25, 07:01 PM
And, if you get a high Int with awaken, the key to your success would be the feat Surrogate Spellcasting, from Savage Species. Basically, allows a non-humanoid body to replace verbal and somatic components with ones that are more fitting for their race. For a horse, it's probably be stanping of feet, swatting of tail, and neighing. Also, you'd want a sturdy spellbook, so your teeth (whihc you'd need to use to manipulate objects) wouldn't damage your spellbook.

2007-04-25, 07:04 PM
I don't think a horse can qualify as being able to complete the somatic components of arcane spells. You might be able to get it to cast divine spells. Maybe a druid? A cleric if you want to get really cheesy. What does an intelligent horse worship?

Innis Cabal
2007-04-25, 07:05 PM
Awaken is the best way to do it

2007-04-25, 07:06 PM
What does an intelligent horse worship?

Antarctic Explorers and Bland Breakfasts

2007-04-25, 07:08 PM
Pardon, but does this topic strike anyone else as a little odd? What need could there be for a horse, specifically, to be able to polymorph itself?

2007-04-25, 07:13 PM
Note if you awaken him he is now an npc, thus he is controlled by the DM. Perhaps he will allow you to make him a cohort.

If you have savage species things open up. Hands (hooves of man), the feat someone already mentioned to modify verbal/somatic components. Those horseshoes that make you appear as a nightmare and give you a huge untyped bonus to int...

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-25, 07:16 PM
Headband of intelligence.

Inyssius Tor
2007-04-25, 07:17 PM
Ha! The Transformation domain, brought to you by Races of Eberron, gives Alter Self to clerics. Horses have a Wisdom score high enough to cast 2nd-level cleric spells, so give your equine friend a +2 Headband of Intellect (for the requisite 3 Int) along with the feat Surrogate Spellcasting and you're done.

Well, except for the little matter of getting a horse to hit level 3.

2007-04-25, 07:18 PM
Make it a psion! Then it will have no need for such petty concerns as V, S, M components!

Oh, wait, I don't think psions can do anything similar to Alter Self. Divine casting might be better: Awakened Horses have 3d6 Int, 12-13 Wis, and 6 + 1d3 Cha, so Wis is the most reliable casting stat (it's quite possible to roll better Int, but Wizards have to keep track of spellbooks, so that's too much trouble).

Heck, just convince him to train in the druidic mysteries alongside whoever Awakens him (unless it's a UMD Rogue, Archivist, Chameleon, or somesuch). Wild Shape lets him become a different Animal, and it's not like Alter Self would do much of anything different (remember, same type as your normal form).

By the way, while we're talking about Alter Self:

You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.

Why would you ever need to us the emphasized part of the description?

Inyssius Tor
2007-04-25, 07:21 PM
A xenophobic Grey Elf gets baleful polymorphed into a half-orc, and needs to interact with other members of his race in a manner that doesn't involve getting speared to death.

2007-04-25, 07:32 PM
Make it a familiar, then you can imbue it with spell-like abilities.

2007-04-25, 07:57 PM
I doubt a horse will have a draconic heritage, so wizard levels will be best.

A draconic horse seems more likely than a draconic human, disregarding fantasy convention.
(In fantasy, Humans Hump Everything.)

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-25, 08:01 PM
(In fantasy, Humans Hump Everything.)

Actually, dragons are the promiscous ones. Check out what you can apply the half-dragon template to.

2007-04-25, 08:03 PM
Its important to know if this creature is an animal companion or similar. If it's not, just have a druid cast Awaken, and treat it nice. Then let it take levels in an appropriate casting class.

If it is one, I'm not sure how doable it is, as familiars and the like can't have class levels.


2007-04-25, 09:23 PM
Wow, so I just realized that my Giant Owl, the one with 14 Wis and 10 Int, is quite eligible for...something.


2007-04-25, 10:36 PM
A Cleric can cast Imbue with Spell Ability to grant spells to anything that has at least 5 int and 9 wis. The creature needs 5 HD to be able to receive 2nd level spells through this, though.

And one serious problem that both this and most of the above have: To cast a spell with a verbal component, you must be able to speak. To cast a spell with a somatic component, you must have humanlike hands, or something else capable of fine manipulation. Horses possess neither ability, so no matter how smart you make them, they can't cast spells requiring either. Or, to put it more plainly,

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a horse of course
That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mister Ed.

...a better proposal. If your horse is a familiar, you can share spells with it, and affect it with Alter Self indirectly like that without it having to be able to cast a thing.

2007-04-26, 12:19 AM
But we're talking an Awakened Horse. He can talk by virtue of the Awaken spell, and he can use Somatic components with the appropriate feats (or a Metamagic Rod of Still Spell... Can he hold that in his mouth like a bit?).

2007-04-26, 12:56 PM
But we're talking an Awakened Horse. He can talk by virtue of the Awaken spell, and he can use Somatic components with the appropriate feats (or a Metamagic Rod of Still Spell... Can he hold that in his mouth like a bit?).

I'm not sure why people don't just use Still Spell and Eschew Materials for this, though...

2007-04-26, 04:50 PM
It could, but does not have to be, a paladin mount. If not, it would certainly be a cohort.

So, it sound like Celestial template, Awaken spell, or a Headband would all get him the Intelligence of at least 3, and that's the only requirement for taking PC levels?

Awaken would allow speech and Surrogate Spellcasting allows somatic components. Is human speech stricly necesary for verbal components - neighing wouldn't work?

Horses have no LA listed. What would the ECL and LA be? I'm kind of fuzzy on those concepts.

I think Sorcerror works better than Wizard, especially if his Int only gets up to 3. That whole dragion-bred thing is described as rumor in the PHB anyway.

As for why he'd need to polymorph, I just kind of thought it would be fun, especially if he could polymorph into a hawk or something for indoors adventurs. I don't plan on being much of a spellcaster myself, beyond some ranks of paladin.

2007-04-26, 05:02 PM
Having non ECL creatures as cohorts is outside of the rules. Ask your DM.

2007-04-26, 07:53 PM
Since your already using 3.0 stuff (Savage Species) you could always make your horse an anthropomorphic horse, gives it the hands and IIRC the voice to cast V and S spells, as well as having a listed LA/RHD. Some of them are a bit broken (anthro. bat makes for an insane druid- +6 wisdom and no LA)