Critique my 8th level Swift Hunter build: What I am I doing wrong? What am I missing?

[marphod]

Build Notes:

This Character will be played in a 2-player game, where the other PC is a Cleric with Undead Leadership, specializing in Summoning and Controlling Undead. Thus, I'm using several questionable methods to improve my character that I would not use in most games. These include Bloodline Levels (using this interpretation of Bloodlines[1] (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7167.0 )), an item familiar, retrained a feat, and flaws. I feel kind of dirty about all of these, but I'll get over it.

(This isn't a new game, so I do know how powerful the other PC is -- I was playing a home-brewed Spellthief[2], until in character personality problems made the Spellthief get the hell out of Dodge.)

Starting Attributes: (4d6-lowest, arrange to choice)
12 Str
18 Dex (+1 @ 4th, +1 @ 8th) = 20
15 Con
14 Int
12 Wis
8 Cha (+1 For Bloodline @ 3rd) = 9

Human, Devil Bloodline (Technically a home brew, but the substantive differences are instead of Darkness 1/day, Smite Good 1/day and Energy Resistance 5/Fire by 8th level, Charm Person 1/day, Poison Use, and Combat Expertise)



Level
Class
BAB
Fort
Reflex
Will
Feat(s)
Skirmish
Fav'd Enemy
Initiator Level
Other Highlights


1
Scout 1
+0
+0(+2)
+2(+6)
+0(+1)
Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes (Human), Dodge (Flaw), Karmic Strike (Flaw)
1d6
-
-
trapfinding


2
Ranger 1 (Solitary Hunter-DR 347)
+1
+2(+4)
+4(+8)
+0(+1)
Track (Ranger); Weapon Finesse (Bloodline; replaces Dodge)
1d6
1st@+2
-
Wild Empathy


n/a
Bloodline 1
+1
+2(+4)
+4(+8)
+0(+1)
-
1d6
1st@+2
-
-


3
Scout 2
+2
+2(+5)
+5(+9)
+0(+1)
Item Familiar; Alertness (when w/n 5' of Item Familiar)
1d6
1st@+2
-
Battle Fort +1, uncanny dodge; +1 Charisma (Bloodline)


4
Barbarian 1 (Sp.l Totem - Lion; CChamp)
+3
+4(+7)
+5(+9)
+0(+1)
-
1d6
1st@+2
-
Rage 1/day, Pounce, Forgets how to read; +1 to Dex


5
Scout 3
+4
+5(+8)
+5(+9)
+1(+2)
-
1d6/+1AC
1st@+2
-
+10' fast move; trackless step


n/a
Bloodline 2
+4
+5(+8)
+5(+9)
+1(+2)
-
1d6/+1AC
1st@+2
-
-


6
Ranger 2
+5
+6(+9)
+6(+10)
+1(+2)
Swift Hunter, Combat Style: TWF (Ranger), Mobility (Bloodline, replaces Combat Expertise)
2d6/+2AC (Eff 7th level = 3 Sc + (2 Rng + 2 Bld)
1@+4, 1@+2 (Eff 7th level = 2 Rng + (3 Sc + 2 Bld)
-
-


7
Swordsage (1; Unarmed Combat Variant)
+5
+6(+9)
+8(+12)
+3(+4)
Weapon Focus(Desert Wind Weapons; Swordsage), Imp. Unarmed Combat (Swordsage), Retrain Dodge to Desert Dodge
2d6/+2AC(+1 Fire/+1 AC from Desert Dodge)
1@+4, 1@+2
5 (1 Swordsage + (6 Class Levels + 2 Bloodline Levels)/2
Quick to act; Burning Blade (DW1), Moment of Perfect Mind (Diam1), Cloak of Deception(Shadow 2), Mountain Hammer (Stone 2), Sudden Leap[3] (TClaw 2), Flashing Sun (DW2); Leaping Dragon (TClaw 3 Stance)


8
Dervish (1)
+6
+6(+9)
+10(+15)
+5(+6)
-
2d6+1/+3AC
1@+4, 1@+2
5
+1 AC, Dance (+2 to attack and damage w/ slashing weapons), Movement Mastery, Slashing Blades, Poison Use; +1 Dex



Equipment: (27000 gp)
2x Scimitars +1; Crystal of Return (Least) on each - ~5k gp
Mithral Chain Shirt +1 (Item Familiar); Ironward Diamond (Lesser) - ~4k gp
Masterwork Long Spear - ~350gp
Skirmisher Boots - 3200gp
Gloves fof the Balanced Hand - 8k gp
Healing Belt - 750gp
Chronocharms of the Horizon Walker and Fateweaver (1k gp)
Travel Cloak - 1200gp
Handy Haversack - 2000gp
Selections from Shax's Haversack type 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-(Equipment-Handbook) ) - Every last remaining copper (the actual accounting is on a spreadsheet, but I figured that's probably overkill to post).

Mechanically, before ally buffs, this works out to Scimitars +11/+11/+6/+6, doing 3d6+4+1 Fire and +3 to AC with Skirmish (garnered via Pounce, Leaping Strike, or Horizon Walker), plus up to 6 more each round with Karmic Strike. twice a day an additional attack from the Skirmish Boots, a round with a flurry attack each encounter from Flashing Sun, and a round with an additional +1d6+5 fire per attack from Burning Blade. When using Dervish Dance, add an additional +2 to hit and damage, as well. Once a day, add bonuses from Rage (but not when Dancing).

Skills include Balance +12(5 ranks), Concentration +12(5 ranks, +5 from item Familiar), Escape Artist +10(5 ranks), Perform(Dance)+15(10 ranks). Tumble +20 (8 ranks, +5 from item Familiar), and Jump +30 (6 ranks, +5 from item Familiar, +4 synergies, +4 from base speed, +10 from Leaping Dragon stance & always considered a running jump; can always take 10), a smattering of points into Spot, Listen, Search, Disable Device, and various Knowledge skills.

Skill Tricks Twisted Charge and Nimble Stand

----

I know I didn't take the Travel Devotion feat -- it doesn't fit in with the character's background, and I remain unconvinced of its superiority compared to a single level dip into Dervish, having Pounce, and the ability to make a standing jump of 40 feet once per encounter as a swift action without needing to roll. (Especially since I don't intend to dip into (Cloistered) Cleric.)

My DM is letting me treat Scout and Ranger as favored classes, due to Swift Hunter, which means my next 2 levels will be probably be Scout 4 (Bonus Feat) and maybe Swordsage 2 (a Maneuver and a Stance, and +Wisdom to AC -- which will increase to +2 at level 12 between stat bonus and Bloodline); I'm not sure which order, though. My next feat will be Improved Skirmish, and either Deft Opportunist or Double Hit. After that? I don't know -- sometime around 15, I'll pick up Rolibar's Gambit (need to hit +12 BAB). I also need to decide if I want to go with one of the non-casting Ranger variants or not; the character is going to cap out at 3rd level Ranger spells with a Caster Level of 7, at best. However, the Champion of the Wild's bonus feat list sucks and the Complete Warrior variant doesn't get much for their spellcasting ability (Fast Movement and possibly an ability that is marginally better than the ability to cast one of Owls Wisdom/Bear's Endurance/Cat's Grace 1/day).

In the end, the build will probably be either 8 Scout/9 Ranger/1 Barbarian/1 Dervish/1 Swordsage (which picks up Flawless stride, another Scout bonus feat, Camouflage, Improved TWF, Evasion, 3 more Favored Enemies, Swift Tracker, and an effective 20th level Skirmish, plus potentially Alternate Class Features for Woodland Stride and the second instance of evasion and ends up at a +17BAB) or 4 Scout/1 Barbarian/2 Swordsage/1 Dervish/11 Ranger/1 ? (Improved and Greater TWF, Evasion, Woodland Stride, Swift Tracker, 2 more Favored Enemies, 18th level Skirmish, the aforementioned stuff from Swordsage 2, and whatever I get from the remaining undecided level, and ends up at a +18 BAB)


[1] TL;dr version:
Bloodline levels are taken right before the required level. They do not increase XP cost for taking the actual level (so after taking your first bloodline level after level 2, you effectively reset your XP back to the minimum for level 2, and earn 3rd level a second time). Bloodline levels add to anything that is a numerical calculation in the feature's description; if it is calculable, but explicitly defined, bloodline levels to not help. So yes to caster level, no to spells per level, yes to overcoming uncanny dodge, no to sneak attack, yes to most save DCs, no to favored enemy progression, etc.). The interpretation of how this interacts with Swift Hunter is inconclusive, but my DM and I agreed that it did add to Scout levels for determining Favored Enemy and Ranger for determining Skirmish, but not the base class.

[2] I should post the full home brew at some point, but long story short:
Caster progression changed: Spell Knowledge as per Bard, casting slots as per Wizard. Could gain semi-permanent spell knowledge of up to 2*class levels of spells from any spell list, but only could do so on a critical hit or a lethal coup de grace -- never from a undamaged volunteer. D4 melee-only progression instead of sneak attack, but can combine with melee attack or hit as a touch attack; however targets with nothing to steal get a Fort save for half damage for the extra damage (while the touch attack is considered armed, the spellthief does not threaten unless they have natural weapons, improved unarmed, or are actually armed). Modified Mage-Slayer feat progression. Eschew Material Components for Stolen spells, could use spell trigger and completion items with stolen spells, but cannot craft items with them. Improved skill list and rogue weapons. Eventually gets to steal Metamagic effects and apply them to different spells. Altered stealing progression. Some bonus skill points after first level to represent ability/knowledge that was stolen along with spells. Can steal spells with target: Personal. The aim was low-tier 2, but I'm not sure if it is really tier 2 or 3.

[3] Not sure if this is legal -- Can the Stance and a Maneuver be used as Co-requisites, or do I need to replace Cloak of Deception with a Tiger Claw Maneuver that has no prerequisite?

[Curmudgeon]

You've got a lot of stuff there that you don't qualify for. Just as one example, Leaping Dragon stance: it's not a level 1 stance (required for Swordsage 1), and it also requires a minimum IL of 5 (whereas your IL at that level is 4).

Does your DM actually allow the Item Familiar variant system, or are you attempting to pull a fast one here? I've never once found an actual DM who does. (Once one character takes that feat, every other PC and NPC in the world needs to do the same to keep things even.) Anyway, your 3rd level wealth isn't enough to pay for this item using the standard item cost maximum (Dungeon Master's Guide, page 199). It would be impossible to make an item familiar out of a magic item you don't have.

I'll stop now and let other people join in the fun.

[SinsI]

You've got a lot of stuff there that you don't qualify for. Just as one example, Leaping Dragon stance: it's not a level 1 stance (required for Swordsage 1), and it also requires a minimum IL of 5 (whereas your IL at that level is 4).

You are overlooking the bloodline levels...

BTW, that interpretation of bloodline level for IL is very strange - they count as full class levels for all classes, so if you have a full Initiator class (and you do - Swordsage) they should get a +1 IL/Bloodline level. (Note that the cheesy interpretation is when you add bloodline level to every single class you have and calculate accordingly. Adding it to a single class once is not cheesy at all).

[Curmudgeon]

You are overlooking the bloodline levels...
marphod mentioned those, but the character table doesn't include them. Bloodline rules specify that you've actually got to take those levels to get the benefits, and before the specified character levels depending on bloodline strength. Until they're actually taken you get penalties instead.
If he reaches 3rd character level and has no bloodline levels, he does not gain the bloodline trait due him at 3rd character level (Strength +1) and must take a 20% reduction on all future XP gains. This looks like a big penalty fest to me.

[SinsI]

Anyway, your 3rd level wealth isn't enough to pay for this item using the standard item cost maximum (Dungeon Master's Guide, page 199). It would be impossible to make an item familiar out of a magic item you don't have.

If you read the whole entry, you'll see that limiting the cost is just one of the multitude of the suggested methods of limiting the items - it is an optional rule. If the DM allows Bloodlines and Undead Leadership, he probably uses an item-by-item veto rule. +1 Mithral Shirt is 1100 base + 1000 for +1 bonus = 2100 gp, so he still has 600 gp left for other equipment. And since it is The One And Only Item Familiar, spending more than half WBL on it is OK.

[marphod]

marphod mentioned those, but the character table doesn't include them.

I left the Bloodline levels off the table, as they are mechanically irrelevant except for the XP cost. There are no class features gained at those levels,regardless. I'll go add them, but it doesn't change the character build in any significant way.


I do have to tip my hat to you; you managed to out-pedant me without trying. I am embarrassed by that.

----

I did say that using Item Familiars and the like made me feel dirty. Those all were marked as kosher by the DM, though.

[marphod]

If the DM allows Bloodlines and Undead Leadership, heshe probably uses an item-by-item veto rule.

I left it unmentioned, but I feel like I should correct/clarify.

[marphod]

+1 Mithral Shirt is 1100 base + 1000 for +1 bonus = 2100 gp, so he still has 600 gp left for other equipment.

Also, there is the (abusive) interpretation that at that point, the character should have the wealth by level for a 4th or 5th level character (3 class levels between 2 classes, plus a bloodline level). At which point, 2100gp is well under the suggested per-item max. :smallbiggrin:

----

With respect to the Initiator Level interpretation, I'm assuming it comes from (paraphrasing) 'Your class level in swordsage plus half of every other level', which is a very different phrasing than things like Caster Level. Still, I think it would be more consistent at a 1:1 bloodline level to initiator level boost, but it is easier to use a single, reference-able interpretation of how Bloodlines work, than to make my own or merge several.

[Darrin]

I do have to tip my hat to you; you managed to out-pedant me without trying. I am embarrassed by that.


That *so* needs to be sigged... but I'm not entirely sure by whom, though.

[SinsI]

With respect to the Initiator Level interpretation, I'm assuming it comes from (paraphrasing) 'Your class level in swordsage plus half of every other level', which is a very different phrasing than things like Caster Level. Still, I think it would be more consistent at a 1:1 bloodline level to initiator level boost, but it is easier to use a single, reference-able interpretation of how Bloodlines work, than to make my own or merge several.

Except bloodline levels count as class level in whatever class you have, including Swordsage/Warblade/Crusader (allowing some wonderful power gaming with classes like War Weaver). You might interpret that you get 1/2 of Initiator level from it if you have no full initiator base (i.e. for Martial Study feat), but if you have such a class it should get the full benefit.

[Darrin]

In the end, the build will probably be either 8 Scout/9 Ranger/1 Barbarian/1 Dervish/1 Swordsage (which picks up Flawless stride, another Scout bonus feat, Camouflage, Improved TWF, Evasion, 3 more Favored Enemies, Swift Tracker, and an effective 20th level Skirmish, plus potentially Alternate Class Features for Woodland Stride and the second instance of evasion and ends up at a +17BAB) or 4 Scout/1 Barbarian/2 Swordsage/1 Dervish/11 Ranger/1 ? (Improved and Greater TWF, Evasion, Woodland Stride, Swift Tracker, 2 more Favored Enemies, 18th level Skirmish, the aforementioned stuff from Swordsage 2, and whatever I get from the remaining undecided level, and ends up at a +18 BAB)


I'm a little puzzled why you need the Dervish level? If you want to dual-wield a pair of scimitars, then Oversized TWF is probably more effective than sinking all those feats into prereqs. If you want to move + full attack, then there are better ways to do that than Dervish Dance 1/day. With the bloodline levels, I'm not entirely sure what your IL is, but it might be high enough to grab Pouncing Charge, which is going to be available more often than Dervish Dance (even without Adaptive Style).



[3] Not sure if this is legal -- Can the Stance and a Maneuver be used as Co-requisites, or do I need to replace Cloak of Deception with a Tiger Claw Maneuver that has no prerequisite?

To get Sudden Leap, yes, you need to have either Wolf Fang Strike or Claw at the Moon. However, you might be able to get that via a pair of Novice Tiger Claw bracers. Once you learn a maneuver, you don't have to keep the prereqs.

[marphod]

I'm a little puzzled why you need the Dervish level? If you want to dual-wield a pair of scimitars, then Oversized TWF is probably more effective than sinking all those feats into prereqs.

Among other things, I like options. Dance is an option. Pounce is an option. Sudden Leap is an option. Using the Horizon Walker Chronocharm is an option. That gives me 4 ways, currently, to trigger Skirmish and still get a full attack. In some ways, the Dance is a nicer option than the other 3, in that it doesn't have an AC penalty (Pounce), can be used for multiple rounds in a single combat (unlike Sudden Leap and the Chronocharm), makes it easier to split attacks between multiple targets in a round (when relevant), and comes with the same +2 to hit that Charge/Pounce has and throws in a +2 to damage, for free (along with a +1 to AC that is always-on).

I don't really care that the weapon is a Scimitar, although the high crit range is nice; I just would like to dual-wield 2 Medium, finesse-able weapons and Dervish gets that, along with Dance. Oversized TWF would be fine, but I don't think it actually saves me anything.

Karmic Strike, which is how about half the character's attacks are generated, requires Dodge and Combat Expertise, and needs Combat Reflexes to be effective. Desert Dodge replaces Dodge and works nicely with Skirmish (Triggers on the same requirement, and grants +1 fire damage with Desert Wind weapons). Given that Skirmish disallows Medium armor, I need a high Dex for AC, which makes Weapon Finesse a practical need. Swift Hunter is necessary for the concept; that leaves Item Familiar (which is included for meta game reasons -- it is a partial solution to the party lacking a skill monkey, the XP differential between the bloodline levels and the non-bloodlined PC, and was suggested by the DM), Mobility, and the level dip into Swordsage (for Weapon Focus). Well, those and some less-than-ideal bonus feats (Track and Alertness)

If you've got a way to swap out Track (ranger) or Alertness (familiar) for something more useful, I'm all ears.

The dip into Swordsage is generally useful, so that's not really an issue. So it comes down to either taking Oversized TWF and Travel Devotion or Mobility and a level of Dervish. And the latter is overall cheaper and easier to fit into the build.

Oversized TWF requires Strength 13, which either requires re-arranging stats (and given that I need the Dex and Int for Combat Reflexes and Combat Expertise, respectively, I'd need to either swap with Con, hurting my HP and Fort saves, or change my character's race, shuffle a lot of my attributes, and find a way to get another bonus feat) or spending my stat boosts differently, which leaves me with a lower Dex/AC. As I mentioned in the original post, Travel Devotion does not fit into the character's personality/faith. Besides, getting both of those requires me to get yet another bonus feat from somewhere.

The only feat-tax for Dervish is Mobility, which I will probably want when I get Rolibar's Gambit come 15th or 18th level.

The cost of Dervish that hurts most, actually, is the skill ranks, which I could use elsewhere (13 of them so far, as the first 6 where when it was cross-class. Dumped all 7 points I earned with that level to up it to 10 ranks. And I could spend up to 32 more, as the remaining expenditures will remain cross-class -- the Dance lasts a round longer for each 4 skill points, maxing out at 13 rounds with 26 ranks at level 20 [the normal 23 max ranks, plus 3 for the bloodline levels]. OTOH, a combat that runs 13 rounds at that level is probably going poorly.)



If you want to move + full attack, then there are better ways to do that than Dervish Dance 1/day. With the bloodline levels, I'm not entirely sure what your IL is, but it might be high enough to grab Pouncing Charge, which is going to be available more often than Dervish Dance (even without Adaptive Style).

I've already got Pounce from the Barbarian level. Pouncing Charge doesn't add anything on top of that, and using pounce still requires charging, which will often mean changing targets and needing to trust the other PC to have enough battlefield control to ensure that there is a target that is chargeable every round. Which is not (yet) a fair assumption.

Besides, I would rather have Dancing Mongoose (which can be used with Dervish Dance or the Barbarian level's Pounce) if I qualified for 5th level maneuvers.


To get Sudden Leap, yes, you need to have either Wolf Fang Strike or Claw at the Moon. However, you might be able to get that via a pair of Novice Tiger Claw bracers. Once you learn a maneuver, you don't have to keep the prereqs.

Drat. I'm already tight enough with cash that getting the bracers is impractical, even if I can sell the item back for half price before the game. (Well, maybe. But that means dropping the fateweaver chronocharm, tree feather token, a skin of goodberry wine, and finding another 350gp of items I can live without. Argh.) (Although, technically, Rabid Wolf Strike is also an option. OTOH, all three options suck.)

[Darrin]

Karmic Strike, which is how about half the character's attacks are generated, requires Dodge and Combat Expertise, and needs Combat Reflexes to be effective. Desert Dodge replaces Dodge and works nicely with Skirmish (Triggers on the same requirement, and grants +1 fire damage with Desert Wind weapons).


Ok, fairly argued. I don't think I gave Karmic Strike enough consideration. Maybe it's more of a toss-up... dip Cloistered Cleric for Travel/Knowledge devotion, or dip Dervish... and you've already got a cleric with the other PC, so no need to overlap.



Given that Skirmish disallows Medium armor, I need a high Dex for AC, which makes Weapon Finesse a practical need.


Feycraft scimitars could free up a feat, but you said money was tight (1500 GP each).



Swift Hunter is necessary for the concept; that leaves Item Familiar (which is included for meta game reasons -- it is a partial solution to the party lacking a skill monkey, the XP differential between the bloodline levels and the non-bloodlined PC, and was suggested by the DM)


I was wondering why Item Familiar was in there. Never really used one, so I'm not sure where this falls on the "want"/"need" spectrum.



If you've got a way to swap out Track (ranger) or Alertness (familiar) for something more useful, I'm all ears.


Track Expert ACF in Dungeonscape, although it's kinda redundant with Scout's trapfinding. I also like to use it for Dragonborn of Bahumat shenanigans. If you're human, you can keep your human bonus feat and lose one of your existing feats instead. Or if you have two feats you don't need (I usually use Endurance, but Alertness... that might work if the DM is flexible?), you can swap one of them for Dragon Tail (extra attack for TWF) or Dragon Wings (one feat away from a fly speed).



I'm already tight enough with cash that getting the bracers is impractical, even if I can sell the item back for half price before the game.


Use Darkleaf (A&EG) instead of Mithral. Lesser Iron Ward Diamond can't be attached to light armor, so that frees up 2000 GP, unless you want to swap it for a Lesser Rubicund Frenzy.

Hmm... I would consider moving the Skirmisher Boots to your "want" list and getting everybody's favorite Anklets instead. Frees up some more GP for maybe... +1 Dwarven Buckler-Axe with a Lesser Crystal of Arrow Deflection?

Also: wand chambers (100 GP, Dungeonscape) are a Must Have. You'll want a wand of instant of power (Forge of War), blades of fire (Spell Compendium), and maybe blockade (Complete Scoundrel).

[Warrnan]

all dex based melee characters need shadow blade feat. +dex to damage adds up fast with a dervish or two weapon rogue. That is all.

[marphod]

Ok, fairly argued. I don't think I gave Karmic Strike enough consideration. Maybe it's more of a toss-up... dip Cloistered Cleric for Travel/Knowledge devotion, or dip Dervish... and you've already got a cleric with the other PC, so no need to overlap.

More or less where I was coming from. (The Cleric dip, cloistered or not, also hits in the BAB, and cloistered also hits HP a little.)


Feycraft scimitars could free up a feat, but you said money was tight (1500 GP each).
Quite frankly, I never even thought of using weapon templates during the build. Had I done so, maybe would have gone that way, but as it is, I'm pinching pennies.


I was wondering why Item Familiar was in there. Never really used one, so I'm not sure where this falls on the "want"/"need" spectrum.
I believe this is more-or-less DM fiat. So I'll go with it. =)



Tra[p] Expert ACF in Dungeonscape, although it's kinda redundant with Scout's trapfinding.
If it gave Open Locks, maybe, as I'd love to get that in-class. As it is, doesn't seem worth it.


I also like to use it for Dragonborn of Bahumat shenanigans. If you're human, you can keep your human bonus feat and lose one of your existing feats instead. Or if you have two feats you don't need (I usually use Endurance, but Alertness... that might work if the DM is flexible?), you can swap one of them for Dragon Tail (extra attack for TWF) or Dragon Wings (one feat away from a fly speed).

The character, uh, isn't, *cough* *cough*, eligible for the Dragonborn shenanigans. Move along citizen. Nothing to see here. (This was, more or less, the nature of the in-character conflict which lead to getting a new character. And since the current plot thread is based around finding the other PC's kidnapped paramour, this made more sense. Although, the DM has promised a sequel game exploring my spellthief's adventures, if I'm interested in a few months)


Use Darkleaf (A&EG) instead of Mithral. Lesser Iron Ward Diamond can't be attached to light armor, so that frees up 2000 GP, unless you want to swap it for a Lesser Rubicund Frenzy.

Can't. Well, I could, but I'd need to pick something else as my Item Familiar; there's a minimum cost 2000gp and +1 Darkleaf is only 1850 (or is it 2000? I know mithral comes with Masterwork for free, but I don't see the same for Darkleaf). Also, since I'm not likely to replace my item familiar, a Mithral Shirt is going to be useful longer.

(Hunh. I guess I could make a weapon or armor crystal the item familiar, as long as it hits the cost requirement. I wonder what a intelligent Crystal of Arrow Deflection or Rubicund Frenzy would be like. =) )

Argh. I knew there had to be something wrong; it seemed too easy to get DR that way. I could get 2 Least Crystals for half the price and swap them. Or Rubicund Frenzy for the same. Or just the Lesser Arrow Deflection and find some more cash.


Hmm... I would consider moving the Skirmisher Boots to your "want" list and getting everybody's favorite Anklets instead. Frees up some more GP for maybe... +1 Dwarven Buckler-Axe with a Lesser Crystal of Arrow Deflection?


Oof. Yeah, I'd need to not replace the Ironward Diamond, and the price is still high -- over 5000GP, between the 1400gp for the Anklets of Translocation, 2500gp for the Crystal, and 1170 gp for the Buckler-Axe. (Actually, is it 1170 or 1520? Can you do masterwork for the shield but not for the weapon?). That'd eat all of the cost savings from the Ironward Diamond and the boots. And while the +2 to AC/+7 to ranged AC would be nice, that's also giving up one of my sources of bonus damage. (It also means I wouldn't get the Dervish AC bonus and screws with Dancing.)

(Also, it is debatable if the Anklets will trigger Skirmish, given it is a teleportation effect, not movement.)



Also: wand chambers (100 GP, Dungeonscape) are a Must Have. You'll want a wand of instant of power (Forge of War), blades of fire (Spell Compendium), and maybe blockade (Complete Scoundrel).

UMD is cross-class for all of my classes, and I don't have a spell list for at least another 2 levels (if my next 2 levels are Ranger). I wasn't worrying about Wand Chambers until then.


Alright. I've got a lot to think about before Thursday. Thank you. =)

[marphod]

all dex based melee characters need shadow blade feat. +dex to damage adds up fast with a dervish or two weapon rogue. That is all.

There is no overlap between the Desert Wind and Shadow Hand associated weapons. I'd have to switch to Short Swords which loses the nice crit range and the bonus fire damage from Desert Dodge. I'll have to run the numbers to see what the change in expected damage output is. Although, if I can come up with the feycraft costs, it might be worth swapping it for Weapon Finesse.

Hrm.

[Darrin]

If it gave Open Locks, maybe, as I'd love to get that in-class. As it is, doesn't seem worth it.


Nope, gives you Disable Device, but many DMs handwave "opening a lock" as disabling a device.



Can't. Well, I could, but I'd need to pick something else as my Item Familiar; there's a minimum cost 2000gp and +1 Darkleaf is only 1850 (or is it 2000? I know mithral comes with Masterwork for free, but I don't see the same for Darkleaf). Also, since I'm not likely to replace my item familiar, a Mithral Shirt is going to be useful longer.


Darkleaf is +750 for light armor, +150 for masterwork, +1000 for the enhancement, +100 for the chain shirt. If you're short 100 GP... throw on the Durable property (Dungeonscape) for +500 GP.



Oof. Yeah, I'd need to not replace the Ironward Diamond, and the price is still high -- over 5000GP, between the 1400gp for the Anklets of Translocation, 2500gp for the Crystal, and 1170 gp for the Buckler-Axe. (Actually, is it 1170 or 1520? Can you do masterwork for the shield but not for the weapon?).


The weapon portion of the Buckler-Axe is purchased and paid for separately, so you could get the shield part masterwork and leave the weapon part non-MW. But paying to enchant it as a magic weapon later will be a PITA.

3000 GP for a feat is usually a really, really good deal. To make up for dropping the damage to 1d4, you could maybe add Dragoncraft to the scimitars for +1 energy damage. I recently went through the same thing for a PBP character.



(Also, it is debatable if the Anklets will trigger Skirmish, given it is a teleportation effect, not movement.)


Your DM gives you an item familiar, and you think he/she will draw the line at "teleportation isn't movement"? He/she sounds pretty flexible.



UMD is cross-class for all of my classes, and I don't have a spell list for at least another 2 levels (if my next 2 levels are Ranger). I wasn't worrying about Wand Chambers until then.


You don't need UMD to use spell-trigger items as a Ranger. I have no idea why the designers allowed this, since Rangers don't have an actual caster level until Ranger 4, but the RAW is pretty clear that Rangers/Paladins can use wands at lower levels.

[marphod]

Darkleaf is +750 for light armor, +150 for masterwork, +1000 for the enhancement, +100 for the chain shirt. If you're short 100 GP... throw on the Durable property (Dungeonscape) for +500 GP.

Given the price difference is only 100 GP (since all Mithral is masterwork), I'd rather have the Mithral Chain Shirt with its 1/2 weight and a higher Max Dex, for 2100GP, than the Darkleaf for 2000GP.



3000 GP for a feat is usually a really, really good deal. To make up for dropping the damage to 1d4, you could maybe add Dragoncraft to the scimitars for +1 energy damage. I recently went through the same thing for a PBP character.

If it were for the feat, it would be a great deal. It isn't, though -- Feycraft weapons don't give you the Weapon Finesse feat, just the ability to use the weapons as if they had it. Still, if I am using Feycraft weapons so that I can take Shadow Blade and get the benefit of both feats, that is a good deal (since Shadow Blade counts as Weapon Finesse for prereq purposes). Even Better will be if Aptitude Weapons can be used to apply Shadow Blade to Scimitars; which is an open question (that I asked on the RAW thread).



You don't need UMD to use spell-trigger items as a Ranger. I have no idea why the designers allowed this, since Rangers don't have an actual caster level until Ranger 4, but the RAW is pretty clear that Rangers/Paladins can use wands at lower levels.

Hunh. Even used as an example in the SRD. I must be remembering a house rule or possibly a change from Pathfinder.