Permanent Teleportation Circles

[VoxRationis]

Casting a teleportation circle spell once creates a temporary portal to a permanent teleportation circle which has been established somewhere else. Casting the same spell each day for a year creates such a permanent circle. Now, what I'm wondering is what the permanent circle does on its own. Does it only function as a destination, and if one wishes to travel outward, one still has to cast the spell on one's own? Does it act as a portal outward that leads to one specific other permanent teleportation circle, the one that was stated during the repeated casting that led to the creation of the permanent circle? Can it act as an outgoing portal that can link to any given sigil sequence?

[Ninja_Prawn]

The spell description doesn't make it clear, does it?

I would say that every day of the first year, the circle is active for outbound journeys to one specific destination for one minute.

Once it is made permanent, it acts only as a destination anchor for other circles. Anyone wanting to travel 'outbound' has to cast Teleportation Circle for themselves and know the relevant sigil sequence.

Edit: if it's a permanent link to the one named portal, you end up with a network that always leads back to the same point - you'd step onto portal C and go to B, which would take you to A, etc., like some kind of magnetic vacuum cleaner. That just doesn't feel workable.

[ImSAMazing]

Casting a teleportation circle spell once creates a temporary portal to a permanent teleportation circle which has been established somewhere else. Casting the same spell each day for a year creates such a permanent circle. Now, what I'm wondering is what the permanent circle does on its own. Does it only function as a destination, and if one wishes to travel outward, one still has to cast the spell on one's own? Does it act as a portal outward that leads to one specific other permanent teleportation circle, the one that was stated during the repeated casting that led to the creation of the permanent circle? Can it act as an outgoing portal that can link to any given sigil sequence?

WHen you cast the spell, you make a teleportation circle which leads to 1 specific other circle which you known the frequention of. When it becomes permanent, you don't have to cast the spell again, the teleportation just stays and you can step on it to automatically TP to the specified circle.

[coredump]

Using just the spells in the phb, there is no way to start a new Teleportation Circle "Network". You can only add to an existing one. But even that is no trivial task, costing almost 20K gold just for the material components. (Plus a mid to high level mage every day for a year.....)

You likely would not make them A to B to C to D, but rather as spokes on a wheel. The first one is at Headquarters, and then you make 5 more at each branch location.

In published adventures there is a way to require an activation word...but no mention in the spell description.

As for the Destination Circle.... the first one created in a Network likely doesn't do anything until another permanent circle is created. OTOH, we don't know for sure, since the PHB spell doesn't allow you to make the initial circle...there must be a spell we are missing.

[Madeiner]

I think the intent of the spell is clear, regardless of how its worded.

Option 1 : Use the spell to teleport to an existing circle

Option 2: Use the spell daily for a year (basically an npc spell) that creates a permanent destination circle. That circle leads nowhere. It's just a destination for Option 1.

I don't think the intent is to create networks, but rather "return points" like MMORPGs.

[TheOOB]

I'm not sure, casting the spell every day for a year seems a harsh cost to make the destination circle. That requires a high level caster to be there and active for a long time

In RoT the red wizards have a circle in a farmhouse a mile north of waterdeep, and I doubt the red wizards just camped a high level wizard there for over a year without anyone knowing

[Mjolnirbear]

Make it a destination circle. Anyone who can't trigger it can't use it. But someone who knows the sigils and a ritual (that you invent) may teleport through the home circle to any known permanent circle.

That would be my houserule.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I'm not sure, casting the spell every day for a year seems a harsh cost to make the destination circle. That requires a high level caster to be there and active for a long time

In RoT the red wizards have a circle in a farmhouse a mile north of waterdeep, and I doubt the red wizards just camped a high level wizard there for over a year without anyone knowing

I don't know, that seems like exactly the kind of thing the Red Wizards would do. A 9th-level wizard has access to a lot of spells that could help them hide what they're doing.

[VoxRationis]

Make it a destination circle. Anyone who can't trigger it can't use it. But someone who knows the sigils and a ritual (that you invent) may teleport through the home circle to any known permanent circle.

That would be my houserule.

I am inclined to agree with that kind of houserule. It doesn't quite seem worth the effort to set up the permanent circle if it only helps people teleport into your fortress. I mean, it's nice that your people in the field can get back quickly, but they still have to walk the whole way out and the circle opens up new avenues of attack into your base, if anyone else gets ahold of the sigil sequence.

[pwykersotz]

I am inclined to agree with that kind of houserule. It doesn't quite seem worth the effort to set up the permanent circle if it only helps people teleport into your fortress. I mean, it's nice that your people in the field can get back quickly, but they still have to walk the whole way out and the circle opens up new avenues of attack into your base, if anyone else gets ahold of the sigil sequence.

But it's fantastic for trade.

[Anderlith]

I'd house rule it & treat it like a Stargate.... including the liquid effects & the whooshing sound

[VoxRationis]

For the limited number of business partners capable of casting 5th-level spells on a routine basis, perhaps.

[pwykersotz]

For the limited number of business partners capable of casting 5th-level spells on a routine basis, perhaps.

Yep, mainly for high value items between major kingdoms.

[Ninja_Prawn]

For the limited number of business partners capable of casting 5th-level spells on a routine basis, perhaps.

Clearly they're the only customers who matter. :smallwink:

I see Teleportation Circle as being mainly a 'backup' or 'failsafe' type of thing. Useful for evacuating people in an emergency, or moving around key personnel, or maybe getting sick/cursed people to a high-level cleric (the PHB says temples often have TCs). It would be too much of a security risk for your sigil sequence to be public knowledge, so you'd want to restrict it to a small group.

[SharkForce]

a destination portal doesn't add that huge of a vulnerability to your keep. it is one location that only needs to be defended from one direction, and which can be at the end of a tunnel. as far as defensive liabilities go, that isn't all that bad.

[Ashrym]

I agree that it's simply to create a destination circle.

I would let a spell caster cast the spell on a permanent circle without the material components to open a circle.

[Chronos]

Heck, you could even put your circle just outside your walls, and still have all the same defenses you need anyway. It'd be slightly less useful for emergency retreats that way, but retreating to right underneath your fortress's walls is still pretty handy.

[Person_Man]

This is one of those things that should have been in magic items instead of spells. The existence of Teleportation Circles would have a major, major impact on the entire world. It would radically impact trade, diplomacy, war, culture, etc. Alternatively, the default settings should basically just be a Tippyverse (which I'd be more fine with. At least it would be more internally consistent).

[KorvinStarmast]

I agree with person man.

The only limitation is the general "it's a low magic world" in 5e so that it would be rare to find a wizard to do that ... but it could be done.

Then again, how can it be dispelled?
Can it be dispelled?

Competing trade guilds hiring a mage to take down your FedEx-like hub.

:)

[coredump]

Remember, in a medieval society labor is cheap. It is very unlike modern economies.

Just the material components for a permanent circle is almost 20K gp. Add to that paying a 9+ level wizard to cast a 5th level spell 365 times.... You are talking about a *lot* of gold. And that is just one circle, if you want to go back and forth, you need to at least double that figure.

[LordVonDerp]

Remember, in a medieval society labor is cheap. It is very unlike modern economies.

If you adjust for inflation modern unskilled laborers actually make less than medieval ones.


Just the material components for a permanent circle is almost 20K gp. Add to that paying a 9+ level wizard to cast a 5th level spell 365 times.... You are talking about a *lot* of gold. And that is just one circle, if you want to go back and forth, you need to at least double that figure.
20k gold is a lot of money. It's enough to equip 10 knights, it's enough to hire 5 Italian mercenaries for a month, and it's enough to buy 2 royal ballgowns.

The wages for the mage would likely be no more than they'd normally be paid anyway, so that's not a big deal.

[Ninja_Prawn]

If you adjust for inflation modern unskilled laborers actually make less than medieval ones.


That's what I was going to say. Labour is shockingly cheap nowadays, especially compared to living costs.

A medieval serf earns a roof over their head through their own labour-power. I, on the other hand, am a qualified professional who's worked non-stop (in the job I'm qualified for) for the last 5 years. I can't afford to rent a flat within 100 miles of London.

[kaoskonfety]

I think the intent of the spell is clear, regardless of how its worded.

Option 1 : Use the spell to teleport to an existing circle

Option 2: Use the spell daily for a year (basically an npc spell) that creates a permanent destination circle. That circle leads nowhere. It's just a destination for Option 1.

I don't think the intent is to create networks, but rather "return points" like MMORPGs.

This was my reading as well. Mostly what I have seen with perma-open-gates looks like house rules, deliberate misinterpretation or holdover from the 3rd edition 9th level spell that could literally shatter worlds.

I kind of like the idea of 2 mages casting it at the same time to open a one minute window without the permanent circle so would probably allow it with some added expense on the components and maybe a custom version of the spell to "receive" - the co-ordination needed in a setting without highly accurate timepieces is daunting for long range teleporting and short range is very special ops D&D spell use so it can get in on the cool rule.

[rhouck]

FWIW p.24 of the DMG also discusses teleportation circles:


The presence of permanent teleportation circles in major cities help cement their important place in the economy of a fantasy world. Spells such as plane shift, teleport, and teleportation circle connect with these circles, which are found in temples, academies, the headquarters of arcane organizations, and prominent civic locations. However, since every teleportation circle is a possible means of entry into a city, they're guarded by military and magical protection.

[Vogonjeltz]

Now, what I'm wondering is what the permanent circle does on its own. Does it only function as a destination, and if one wishes to travel outward, one still has to cast the spell on one's own? Does it act as a portal outward that leads to one specific other permanent teleportation circle, the one that was stated during the repeated casting that led to the creation of the permanent circle? Can it act as an outgoing portal that can link to any given sigil sequence?

In order by sentence:
A) Teleport allows a caster to, without failure, go to a permanent Teleportation Circle whose sigil sequence you know.

B) Yes, circles provide destination points.

C) Only for the one round after casting teleportation circle, after which the portal closes. A permanent teleportation circle is not a permanent portal (although I would not fault you for adjusting the universe to allow for this). If you were to have the spell create a permanent portal to another circle, that would be interesting in that it would then allow someone who can't cast teleport or teleportation circle to move to that one circle, and from that circle to whatever one circle that portal was linked to (if any).

D) No, even if we interpret the spell to say that, along with the permanent teleportation circle (which serves as a new possible destination), the portal no longer closes, there's nothing that would allow the destination of that portal to alter.

The text of the spell highly suggests that there's no permanent portal, just permanent circles. If you cast the spell you briefly create a 1-way opening to a circle. If you cast the spell 365 days in a row in the same location, you've instead create a new circle that can be reached with the spell.

If you're the DM, I'd say there's no reason at all you couldn't run them like the Stargates. As long as someone has a real sigil sequence, they can dial themselves to that location. Beware random-dialing.

Either way you play it, by the book or some variation, just try to be consistent.

[Madeiner]

I kind of like the idea of 2 mages casting it at the same time to open a one minute window without the permanent circle so would probably allow it with some added expense on the components and maybe a custom version of the spell to "receive" - the co-ordination needed in a setting without highly accurate timepieces is daunting for long range teleporting and short range is very special ops D&D spell use so it can get in on the cool rule.

Yeah, i'm also using this houserule.
If you can get a mage to open a circle somewhere, and he sends you the sigil sequence somehow (i'm ruling the sigil is unique to the place where you are casting the circle, so no agreeing to one beforehand), and he can communicate to you exactly when he is opening the circle (say, a Sending), then you can teleport there with another teleportation circle.

I'll make this hard, like requiring arcana checks to communicate the sigil sequence in less than one minute over multiple Sendings, and i'll not make this generally known, but if the players think of it, i'm game :)
I'll also make it so that you can use this circle-based teleport to get to places where normal teleportation is normally blocked; this encourages getting someone behind enemy lines in order to later teleport there, instead of just boringly-teleporting with a 7th level spell.

[Safety Sword]

The default is that if you know the command word (or other activation trigger), you step into the circle and the portal opens, step in and whoosh, you're at the destination that the circle is tuned to.

Note that you can cast the circle spell and not use the circle. The sigil sequence is a fancy term for arcane GPS location data. I would allow character who can cast this spell to know the sequences for circles they come across in their travels ("Look, magic squiggles all around the edges"). I would also allow characters to have an idea of the sigils for a location they are very familiar with.

You can also "retune" the circle to another destination (Hoard of the Dragon Queen has a lodge with several circles close by with their destinations outlined).

In short, I don't think the destination has to be a teleportation circle. It can be anywhere.

[Madeiner]

No, i'm fairly sure the destination MUST be another circle. Otherwise, what's the point of 7th level teleport spell?

Teleport circle is limited in that you can only go back to somewhere you have previosuly visited.

[Safety Sword]

No, i'm fairly sure the destination MUST be another circle. Otherwise, what's the point of 7th level teleport spell?

Teleport circle is limited in that you can only go back to somewhere you have previosuly visited.

Pretty sure that a 1 action vs a 1 minute cast time is significant.

It does say you need to link it to another permanent circle though, so I guess that is covered. I should read the description more carefully.

So it's a one way ticket to a certain destination... I guess that's useful to get you back home. But how do you get back to where you were.... dammit.. need to make another circle...

[Slipperychicken]

You can easily control where a traveler ends up by occupying the circle's space, and controlling where the nearest unoccupied space is. Simply put the teleportation circle in a room that's totally occupied, give that room very thick walls made of something strong, and place alcoves on the outsides of the walls where you want people to end up. Control which alcove travelers will appear in by occupying all the others, perhaps with a portcullis or similar contraption. One side-alcove of a teleportation circle room might be a hallway leading to the town center (complete with portcullis, guards, immigration/border-security officials, and a welcome sign), while another side might lead somewhere unpleasant (like a jail cell, or a dungeon, or an acid vat full of acid-immune piranhas). This has the side-effect of ensuring that travelers don't have an opportunity to sabotage the teleportation circle.