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woodlandkammao
2015-06-15, 11:54 AM
So I've gotten back onto the forum after a while and noticed that everyone is talking about the beast master's suckyness. As a BM in my campaign, it's occurred to me that no-one is discussing owls. Everyone seems to be using their beasts as either mounts or DPS, but my owl gets to Help as a bonus action and is the only non-dino Flyby animal available. Long story short I have almost permanent advantage on my multiple arrow shots per round, for reasons which are never in melee range. Seems effective to me.

Plus, It's a great stealthy scout with advantage on perception, and I'm the skill monkey as it is.

Anything I'm missing here?

Gwendol
2015-06-15, 11:56 AM
No, you play the class to its strength.

woodlandkammao
2015-06-15, 12:01 PM
Your signature seems appropriate for your post.

MadBear
2015-06-15, 01:14 PM
That's a great way to use an animal companion!

With that said, I'm pretty sure the stock response is "The monster will just hold it's action and squish it the first chance it gets".

Which I think is still fine. It means the monster isn't attacking allies, and could very likely be wasting its turn. That's on top of the fact that in the middle of a battle where people are swing swords, mages are flinging magic, and arrows of death are raining down, that a person trying to hit a bird seems a bit meta-gamey.

Dralnu
2015-06-15, 01:21 PM
Seems like a great way to use it! Pair that with the Sharpshooter feat to really take advantage of it :smallwink:

As for killing the pet, yeah, that's always the sucky part. As the DM roleplaying monsters, if a bird was flying in my monster's face screeching and pecking and blocking its view (Help action), yeah I could imagine the monster would want to kill it. Would it go as far as to ready its action to do so? Maybe. Maybe not the reckless orc barbarian -- readying any action doesn't seem fitting. But a tactical monster, maybe. Depends. Wouldn't call foul to the DM that does that. But personally I wouldn't go out of my way, as the DM, to "punish" this tactic. Especially as someone that knows BMs could use the help.

Mandragola
2015-06-15, 01:28 PM
If you see a monster ready an action, have your owl not fly next to it. Shoot it without advantage while it just stands there.

Xetheral
2015-06-15, 01:35 PM
So I've gotten back onto the forum after a while and noticed that everyone is talking about the beast master's suckyness. As a BM in my campaign, it's occurred to me that no-one is discussing owls. Everyone seems to be using their beasts as either mounts or DPS, but my owl gets to Help as a bonus action and is the only non-dino Flyby animal available. Long story short I have almost permanent advantage on my multiple arrow shots per round, for reasons which are never in melee range. Seems effective to me.

Plus, It's a great stealthy scout with advantage on perception, and I'm the skill monkey as it is.

Anything I'm missing here?

You can do the same thing with the find familiar spell (obtainable either via multiclassing or the ritual casting feat) without eating up your bonus action each round. A familiar is also more easily replacable than a companion. Effectively, you've spent your entire archetype to get access to an inferior version of a 1st level ritual.

Doing so is totally fine--the class can definitely work as you're using it, but hopefully this illustrates why using the archetype as you are isn't seen as a very attractive option by many posters.

MadBear
2015-06-15, 01:48 PM
To be fair, it will have more hp, and better AC compared to its familiar friend (Ha, I'm Punny)

VoxRationis
2015-06-15, 02:12 PM
A familiar is also more easily replacable than a companion.

Wow. That's exactly opposite from what I'm used to (having cut my teeth on 3rd).

Dralnu
2015-06-15, 02:25 PM
Oof, you CAN get an owl with find familiar. That's a bit depressing.

On the other hand, you've convinced me to pick up Ritual Casting feat with my Sorcerer next level :smallamused:

SharkForce
2015-06-15, 02:27 PM
minor correction: iirc, winged snakes also have flyby attack.

anyways, last i checked, i seem to recall the help action giving advantage on *one* attack, and your bonus action can already be put to good use as a ranger to deal more damage anyways. not that impressed, honestly.

ThermalSlapShot
2015-06-15, 02:58 PM
minor correction: iirc, winged snakes also have flyby attack.

anyways, last i checked, i seem to recall the help action giving advantage on *one* attack, and your bonus action can already be put to good use as a ranger to deal more damage anyways. not that impressed, honestly.

I believe you are correct on all accounts.

Ashrym
2015-06-15, 03:05 PM
The owl isn't squishy. It has minimum of 4x the ranger's level in hit points just like every other companion so comments along the lines monsters squishing it are off base. Especially in comparison to comments about just getting a familiar with 1 hp. Flyby does add to survability.

Perception, stealth, keen sight, darkvision, and 60 ft fly speed make them decent scouting companions.

They just do really poor damage at 1 + proficiency bonus.

Regarding help action: the help action is only one attack. It still costs an action, however, so help as a bonus action is kind of nice.

I would have considered them a really good choice if not for the poor damage and subsequent situational use of bestial fury to simply becoming a ranged attack option.

Flavour wise it's still a good choice and not the worst for a ranger scout concept.

Once a Fool
2015-06-15, 03:16 PM
anyways, last i checked, i seem to recall the help action giving advantage on *one* attack, and your bonus action can already be put to good use as a ranger to deal more damage anyways. not that impressed, honestly.

The flyby companion's help (bonus) action doesn't have to be used to benefit the ranger. An isolated rogue, for instance, could certainly benefit from a single instance of advantage.

SharkForce
2015-06-15, 06:43 PM
The flyby companion's help (bonus) action doesn't have to be used to benefit the ranger. An isolated rogue, for instance, could certainly benefit from a single instance of advantage.

an isolated rogue should be spending the turn getting un-isolated.

Once a Fool
2015-06-16, 12:40 AM
an isolated rogue should be spending the turn getting un-isolated.

One method of doing so being sneak attacking to death whatever foe they happen to be next to.

Xetheral
2015-06-16, 01:49 AM
To be fair, it will have more hp, and better AC compared to its familiar friend (Ha, I'm Punny)

Very true. A Beastmaster Owl used to grant advantage via the help action is not universally inferior to an Owl Familiar. However, given the vast disparity in the cost of obtaining a Beastmaster Owl over the cost of obtaining an Owl familiar, the benefits of the former seem meager. (Of course, you could always get both!)


Wow. That's exactly opposite from what I'm used to (having cut my teeth on 3rd).

Yes unlike in previous editions, in 5e animal companions require 8 hours to replace, whereas familiars only require an hour to resummon.

unwise
2015-06-16, 01:56 AM
Jimmy Giggle, Ranger of the Night Watch and his companion Hoot. Hey they should make a show out of that.

Ashrym
2015-06-16, 02:07 AM
Yes unlike in previous editions, in 5e animal companions require 8 hours to replace, whereas familiars only require an hour to resummon.

Good thing too. When a creature has 1 hp as the max hp, 2 hp of damage takes it to 0, costs 1, and the remaining 1 is equal to the hit point max for instant death. That takes a lot of resummoning for something planned on helping engage in combat. I'd rather have the companion's hp and bonus to AC because it's a lot less likely to need to be resummoned at all. A readied action kills the owl familiar coming in to help. Any damage at all drops it and any damage over 1 kills it instantly.

That 1st level ritual ain't so appealing anymore. ;)

Xetheral
2015-06-16, 02:23 AM
Good thing too. When a creature has 1 hp as the max hp, 2 hp of damage takes it to 0, costs 1, and the remaining 1 is equal to the hit point max for instant death. That takes a lot of resummoning for something planned on helping engage in combat. I'd rather have the companion's hp and bonus to AC because it's a lot less likely to need to be resummoned at all. A readied action kills the owl familiar coming in to help. Any damage at all drops it and any damage over 1 kills it instantly.

That 1st level ritual ain't so appealing anymore. ;)

It takes no actions on your part to gain advantage, and the owl doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. True, a readied action kills it, but a once-per-short rest ability that lets you effectively deny at least one enemy an action, without expending any actions, is a fantastic ability. You can also likely prolong its life by simply not having the owl fly near any enemies that didn't take an action on their turn and might be readying. 60' speed is also frequently enough to ensure that any AoE that targets the Owl doesn't also target any party members.

Ashrym
2015-06-16, 03:25 AM
It takes no actions on your part to gain advantage, and the owl doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. True, a readied action kills it, but a once-per-short rest ability that lets you effectively deny at least one enemy an action, without expending any actions, is a fantastic ability. You can also likely prolong its life by simply not having the owl fly near any enemies that didn't take an action on their turn and might be readying. 60' speed is also frequently enough to ensure that any AoE that targets the Owl doesn't also target any party members.

All that does is creates the same scenario where the companion wouldn't need to worry about the 8 hours of being replaced. Any scenario the familiar survives the companion survives. The reverse isn't true.

The companion adds the ranger proficiency bonus to proficient skills so makes a better scout than find familiar would. Spells like beast bond or beast sense help in that area.

ImSAMazing
2015-06-16, 04:21 AM
So I've gotten back onto the forum after a while and noticed that everyone is talking about the beast master's suckyness. As a BM in my campaign, it's occurred to me that no-one is discussing owls. Everyone seems to be using their beasts as either mounts or DPS, but my owl gets to Help as a bonus action and is the only non-dino Flyby animal available. Long story short I have almost permanent advantage on my multiple arrow shots per round, for reasons which are never in melee range. Seems effective to me.

Plus, It's a great stealthy scout with advantage on perception, and I'm the skill monkey as it is.

Anything I'm missing here?

Yes, they can. However, I don't find the BM so bad...

woodlandkammao
2015-06-16, 06:23 AM
You can do the same thing with the find familiar spell (obtainable either via multiclassing or the ritual casting feat) without eating up your bonus action each round. A familiar is also more easily replacable than a companion. Effectively, you've spent your entire archetype to get access to an inferior version of a 1st level ritual.

Doing so is totally fine--the class can definitely work as you're using it, but hopefully this illustrates why using the archetype as you are isn't seen as a very attractive option by many posters.

competing with familiars really does dull the pro's of my build a bit. I'm just trying to make my way in this world as a guy who loves pets, archery and being perceptive. The ranger just seemed too 'me' to pass up. Maybe this is WOTC's way of telling me I suck.

Chronos
2015-06-16, 06:41 AM
A familiar is absolutely the wrong comparison, because a familiar (at least a normal one, not a chain-warlock's improved familiar) cannot do what the OP is using his owl for. You can only help on attack rolls if you can attack yourself, and familiars cannot attack, even if they're based on creatures that can.

ThermalSlapShot
2015-06-16, 07:53 AM
A familiar is absolutely the wrong comparison, because a familiar (at least a normal one, not a chain-warlock's improved familiar) cannot do what the OP is using his owl for. You can only help on attack rolls if you can attack yourself, and familiars cannot attack, even if they're based on creatures that can.

Nope.

A familiar can not take certain actions which is attack action. The familiar has no limitations on the help action. The help action has nothing to do with the attack action and doesn't mean you are attacking it.

Saying something creepy sexual, saying something funny, throwing dirt, flying in someone's face, spiting on them, or pretending to hurt yourself a a distraction can all be the help action.

"Help
You can lend your aid to another creature in the completion of a task. When you take the Help action, the creature you aid gains advantage on the next ability check it makes to perform the task you are helping with, provided that it makes the check before the start of your next turn.

Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally’s attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."

Page 72 basic player's rules

I see no mention of someone needing to be able to attack in order to help.

If you have a spell that doesn't allow you to cast spells or attack, say sanctuary, then your character can run around helping others and not break their spell.

Attack is on page 71 and is a completely separate action.

MarkTriumphant
2015-06-16, 08:09 AM
A familiar is absolutely the wrong comparison, because a familiar (at least a normal one, not a chain-warlock's improved familiar) cannot do what the OP is using his owl for. You can only help on attack rolls if you can attack yourself, and familiars cannot attack, even if they're based on creatures that can.

I'm fairly certain that you are wrong on this. The Help action is an action in its own right, not a type of attack action.

ThermalSlapShot
2015-06-16, 08:11 AM
I'm fairly certain that you are wrong on this. The Help action is an action in its own right, not a type of attack action.

Yup! Page 72 of basic PDF players rules.

Osrogue
2015-06-17, 06:41 AM
The owl is more durable and a better scout than its familiar counterpart at the cost of taking longer to resummon, and costing a bonus action for help instead of no action.

you chose a a pet that isn't combat intensive. It's arguably the best scouting pet, and can provide good combat potential on top of not turning into a puff of smoke at a light breeze.

It should also be noted that it is not a 1/short rest ability. When one is casting the ritual to resummon their incredibly fragile familiar, they are not resting, and would not receive the benefits of a short rest.

So no ki for monks, maneuvers for battlemasters, spells for warlocks, regaining hit dice and the like. They would need an extra hour, so the hour needed to revive the familiar isn't quite free.

Chronos
2015-06-17, 09:22 AM
Yet another place where rules aren't where you'd expect them to be. It's on page 175 of the Player's Handbook, under "Working Together":

A character can only provide help if the task is one that he or she could attempt alone.
Yes, this is in the chapter about checks, not attack rolls, but it doesn't say it's only for checks, but that it's for all "tasks".

Gwendol
2015-06-17, 09:25 AM
Yet another place where rules aren't where you'd expect them to be. It's on page 175 of the Player's Handbook, under "Working Together":

Yes, this is in the chapter about checks, not attack rolls, but it doesn't say it's only for checks, but that it's for all "tasks".

Stealth ruling!

SharkForce
2015-06-17, 09:53 AM
fortunately, the owl is able to attack.

Gwendol
2015-06-17, 10:23 AM
Does it affect using an owl familiar for the help action though?

SharkForce
2015-06-17, 10:44 AM
familiars have the capacity to attack. they won't, most of the time. but they will, for example, if you give them a touch spell to channel. and they are capable, regardless. it isn't that the owl cannot attack someone, it is that the rules prevent it from doing so.

Vogonjeltz
2015-06-17, 04:22 PM
Yes unlike in previous editions, in 5e animal companions require 8 hours to replace, whereas familiars only require an hour to resummon.

1 hour and 10 gold for a 1 hp minion or 8 hours with good hp and free. So as long as you don't mind hemorrhaging money, yes the familiar is an option.

ThermalSlapShot
2015-06-17, 04:35 PM
1 hour and 10 gold for a 1 hp minion or 8 hours with good hp and free. So as long as you don't mind hemorrhaging money, yes the familiar is an option.

What else are you spending your gold on?

Healing Potions and Find Familiar aren't bad choices.

VoxRationis
2015-06-17, 04:44 PM
Don't the powers that be hate it when you treat your familiar as expendable? Or is that a different edition?

ThermalSlapShot
2015-06-17, 04:47 PM
Don't the powers that be hate it when you treat your familiar as expendable? Or is that a different edition?

Man you totally blew my mind, I didn't think I posted this... I was all like "wtf o_O".

Then I saw the user name haha.

No negative backlash in the phb/DMG that I know of.

Once a Fool
2015-06-17, 05:14 PM
1 hour and 10 gold for a 1 hp minion or 8 hours with good hp and free. So as long as you don't mind hemorrhaging money, yes the familiar is an option.

Since, if I'm not mistaken, rangers don't get ritual casting, you're also going to need to burn a precious spell slot each time. So, if you want to cast it as a ritual (which, incidentally, would have a 70 minute casting time, not 60), you'll either need a multiclass dip (with an Int or Cha class, to pick up Find Familiar) or a second feat. That's starting to look like a bit of an investment.

Telok
2015-06-18, 01:46 AM
Question: Do winged fliers still have to maintain a forward speed or does every flier have prefect hovering ability now?

SharkForce
2015-06-18, 08:27 AM
specific creatures will have the hover ability if they are able to do so. otherwise, i believe half speed is the minimum to avoid stalling (and falling).

Chronos
2015-06-18, 10:40 AM
Quoth Once a Fool:

So, if you want to cast it as a ritual (which, incidentally, would have a 70 minute casting time, not 60), you'll either need a multiclass dip (with an Int or Cha class, to pick up Find Familiar) or a second feat. That's starting to look like a bit of an investment.
What second feat? Ritual Caster would do it by itself.

Kwinza
2015-06-18, 10:52 AM
Seems like a great way to use it! Pair that with the Sharpshooter feat to really take advantage of it :smallwink:

As for killing the pet, yeah, that's always the sucky part. As the DM roleplaying monsters, if a bird was flying in my monster's face screeching and pecking and blocking its view (Help action), yeah I could imagine the monster would want to kill it. Would it go as far as to ready its action to do so? Maybe. Maybe not the reckless orc barbarian -- readying any action doesn't seem fitting. But a tactical monster, maybe. Depends. Wouldn't call foul to the DM that does that. But personally I wouldn't go out of my way, as the DM, to "punish" this tactic. Especially as someone that knows BMs could use the help.

No monster is going to kill the owl though. Everyone is fond of owls, well except mice n shrews... and simon cowells.

GiantOctopodes
2015-06-18, 12:19 PM
1 hour and 10 gold for a 1 hp minion or 8 hours with good hp and free. So as long as you don't mind hemorrhaging money, yes the familiar is an option.

This is also a misrepresentation of the situation. The beastmaster's companion is Not free. Using a bonus action presents an opportunity cost. With that bonus action, the beast master could be:
Making an attack (whether melee with TWF or ranged with Crossbow Expert)
Casting a spell (ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, hunter's mark, lightning arrow, grasping vine, swift quiver)
Hiding

Note that these actions would be in addition to the help provided by a familiar, or, once you have 3rd level spells, the help provided by conjure animals (where you can have 4 animals helping, and 4 animals attacking, and none of that requires actions).

In terms of sustainability, absolutely, the beastmaster companion is more durable. There is no arguing that, it's simply better in terms of surviving in combat. However, whether having 2 hp or 20, the most effective means of surviving in combat is not getting hit in the first place. Not approaching targets that have not used their action yet, ensuring there is cover between the creature and any ranged combatants, prioritizing the elimination of ranged combatants, this is all likely to be occurring anyway. It is assured that the beastmaster's companion is more durable than a familiar, but it is *not* in any way assured that a familiar will not survive any given combat.

Easy_Lee
2015-06-18, 01:13 PM
A familiar can not take certain actions which is attack action. The familiar has no limitations on the help action....saying something creepy sexual, saying something funny, throwing dirt, flying in someone's face, spiting on them, or pretending to hurt yourself a a distraction can all be the help action.

Why was that your first idea for a help action?

Ashrym
2015-06-18, 01:24 PM
Why was that your first idea for a help action?

Acronym confusion. He plays Dungeons and Dominatrices when he states D&D. ;-)

ThermalSlapShot
2015-06-18, 01:27 PM
Why was that your first idea for a help action?

Because that same response is what you want from your enemy.

Telling the male orc you are going to *insert creepy sexual innuendo* will get the orc (and the DM) to be surprised.

I game with people my own age so we pull stuff like this all the time.

Once a Fool
2015-06-18, 01:46 PM
What second feat? Ritual Caster would do it by itself.

Ah, yes. I didn't recall that Ritual Caster grants you two free spells.

Curiously, Ritual Caster appears to require that granted and acquired rituals (which must be of the associated class list, i.e. Wizard if you want Find Familiar) can only be cast as rituals.

ThermalSlapShot
2015-06-18, 02:01 PM
Ah, yes. I didn't recall that Ritual Caster grants you two free spells.

Curiously, Ritual Caster appears to require that granted and acquired rituals (which must be of the associated class list, i.e. Wizard or Sorcerer if you want Find Familiar) can only be cast as rituals.

Sorcerer doesn't have Find Familiar.

GiantOctopodes
2015-06-18, 02:45 PM
Ah, yes. I didn't recall that Ritual Caster grants you two free spells.

Curiously, Ritual Caster appears to require that granted and acquired rituals (which must be of the associated class list, i.e. Wizard if you want Find Familiar) can only be cast as rituals.

Indeed! What that means there is that if you have spell slots, let's say because you're a Ranger, you cannot use those spell slots to cast the spell "normally". That means that Comprehend Languages, having a 1 action cast time, instead has a 10 minute + 1 action cast time as a ritual, making it far less useful for understanding that conversation you are overhearing in the moment. Were you to be a Wizard, you would have the option of spending a spell slot for the 1 action cast time, or casting as a ritual, saving the spell slot but taking more time. As a ritual caster, with spells not normally on your list, you do not have the option of spending a spell slot and saving the 10 minutes of time, you *must* cast it as a ritual.

I hope that makes sense. Just don't want people to think that spells that can be cast "normally" (which all ritual spells can, even spells with a casting time of 1 hour are still 1 hour base cast times, 1 hour 10 minutes when cast as a ritual) cannot be acquired with Ritual Caster.

Telok
2015-06-18, 03:06 PM
specific creatures will have the hover ability if they are able to do so. otherwise, i believe half speed is the minimum to avoid stalling (and falling).

I fully admit my ignorance of beastmaster nuance: Does the ranger have to spend an action to move the companion animal or does the whole robot thing extend to a flying companion falling out of the sky if not commanded?

ThermalSlapShot
2015-06-18, 03:11 PM
I fully admit my ignorance of beastmaster nuance: Does the ranger have to spend an action to move the companion animal or does the whole robot thing extend to a flying companion falling out of the sky if not commanded?

The beast can be moved for free, thankfully.

Easy_Lee
2015-06-18, 03:30 PM
The beast can be moved for free, thankfully.

But dashing takes an action, or bonus action after 7, or can be done for free if you ride it and your DM is agreeable.

Vogonjeltz
2015-06-18, 04:13 PM
What else are you spending your gold on?

Healing Potions and Find Familiar aren't bad choices.

I'd prefer to spend my gold on: Better arms and equipment, potions of healing aren't cheap, and frankly carrousing and learning are always valuable.

Oh right, also, servants cost money, if you want to live like Royalty for decades you can't be tossing 10 gold out the window every single encounter. (Because really, when isn't an enemy going to be able to swat that familiar (Owl) and kill it?...1 hp!)


Since, if I'm not mistaken, rangers don't get ritual casting, you're also going to need to burn a precious spell slot each time. So, if you want to cast it as a ritual (which, incidentally, would have a 70 minute casting time, not 60), you'll either need a multiclass dip (with an Int or Cha class, to pick up Find Familiar) or a second feat. That's starting to look like a bit of an investment.

Given that you'd need to be a Variant Human to get the ritual to do this by level 1, otherwise it'd be impossible until level 4 when single-classing.


This is also a misrepresentation of the situation. The beastmaster's companion is Not free. Using a bonus action presents an opportunity cost. With that bonus action, the beast master could be:
Making an attack (whether melee with TWF or ranged with Crossbow Expert)
Casting a spell (ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, hunter's mark, lightning arrow, grasping vine, swift quiver)
Hiding

Note that these actions would be in addition to the help provided by a familiar, or, once you have 3rd level spells, the help provided by conjure animals (where you can have 4 animals helping, and 4 animals attacking, and none of that requires actions).

In terms of sustainability, absolutely, the beastmaster companion is more durable. There is no arguing that, it's simply better in terms of surviving in combat. However, whether having 2 hp or 20, the most effective means of surviving in combat is not getting hit in the first place. Not approaching targets that have not used their action yet, ensuring there is cover between the creature and any ranged combatants, prioritizing the elimination of ranged combatants, this is all likely to be occurring anyway. It is assured that the beastmaster's companion is more durable than a familiar, but it is *not* in any way assured that a familiar will not survive any given combat.

We were talking about the cost of replacement, it's basically free (time sink, but since when has that been a problem?) for the Companion, but costs actual money for a familiar.

Conjure Animals is potentially good, yes, but it also costs a high level spell slot, and it's also the basically normal (fey) beasts (not the more buff companion) and they are only going to be able to stick around as long as you can concentrate. That concentration (and spell slot) might be better used for other things (like Stoneskin for your beastie).

Yes, it's entirely possible that the DM will throw the player a bone and never ever use area of effects like thunderwave or fireball that are an automatic death sentence for the familiar, or that they will never ever in a million years target poor Archimedes. On the other hand, they probably will do one of those things, especially if the owl is being used to help attack a creature.

ThermalSlapShot
2015-06-18, 05:12 PM
I'd prefer to spend my gold on: Better arms and equipment, potions of healing aren't cheap, and frankly carrousing and learning are always valuable.

You mostly can get all the equipment you will ever need by level 1. Anything past that is gravy and not really needed.

The upgrades aren't all that fantastic, especially since magic items aren't really for sale.

Healing potions may not be cheap but they are damn useful.

Xetheral
2015-06-18, 05:50 PM
Because really, when isn't an enemy going to be able to swat that familiar (Owl) and kill it?...1 hp!

Owls have a 60' speed and don't provoke opportunity attacks, so, as another poster mentioned, so long as you are careful only to fly near enemies that have already used their action (and thus aren't readying an attack) you can avoid melee combat completely, so long as the enemy can't get past your party's front lines. Ranged combat requires careful use of cover, but so long as you are fighting near a corner, total cover should be easily available. This also prevents most short-ranged AoE. Fireball is still a problem, but you likely can arrange it so that hitting the familiar requires missing at least one PC, and if the geometry isn't in your favor then just keep the familiar in it's extra-dimensional pocket for that combat.

Also, remember that an attack this hits and kills a familiar isn't an attack that hits your party. On the roughest adventuring days, that might save you a healing potion, more than compensating for the expense of re-summoning the familiar.

Psikerlord
2015-06-19, 03:00 AM
Yet another place where rules aren't where you'd expect them to be. It's on page 175 of the Player's Handbook, under "Working Together":

Yes, this is in the chapter about checks, not attack rolls, but it doesn't say it's only for checks, but that it's for all "tasks".

Great find :)

Vogonjeltz
2015-06-19, 04:30 PM
You mostly can get all the equipment you will ever need by level 1. Anything past that is gravy and not really needed.

The upgrades aren't all that fantastic, especially since magic items aren't really for sale.

Healing potions may not be cheap but they are damn useful.

Fighter's at best start with Chain Mail (AC 16), so they could definitely use the money for plate (1500) and Rangers could certainly use the money for Half-Plate (750), Wizards could use that money for spell components and to put spells into their spellbook (50gp per spell level!). So yeah, everyone and their dog needs money for things other than replacing a familiar.


Owls have a 60' speed and don't provoke opportunity attacks, so, as another poster mentioned, so long as you are careful only to fly near enemies that have already used their action (and thus aren't readying an attack) you can avoid melee combat completely, so long as the enemy can't get past your party's front lines. Ranged combat requires careful use of cover, but so long as you are fighting near a corner, total cover should be easily available. This also prevents most short-ranged AoE. Fireball is still a problem, but you likely can arrange it so that hitting the familiar requires missing at least one PC, and if the geometry isn't in your favor then just keep the familiar in it's extra-dimensional pocket for that combat.

Also, remember that an attack this hits and kills a familiar isn't an attack that hits your party. On the roughest adventuring days, that might save you a healing potion, more than compensating for the expense of re-summoning the familiar.

It certainly reduces the threat to ranged attacks and aoe (or fast melee), but we're talking at best 1 attack for the familiar Owl which will die if hit and it's very unlikely it won't be hit.