suggest an undead to me

[Ettina]

I have an idea for an interesting character dynamic between me and a fellow player (he's in favour of it too, by the way).

Essentially, his character will be a cleric of Ilmater, and mine will be a chaotic evil sentient undead. Our backstory is that when our characters met, his character beat mine in a fight and was about to destroy my character, but my character begged for mercy and claimed he wanted to repent and become a good guy. The cleric was pretty certain my character was lying, but since Ilmater preaches mercy and believes no one is beyond redemption, he figured Ilmater would want him to give this undead a chance at redemption. So now he and the undead travel together, the cleric watching the undead like a hawk while the undead tries to figure out a way to get away from this guy without getting himself killed.

Problem is, I don't know what kind of undead to play. What I want is:

a) a sentient undead who can talk and isn't completely insane (eg, not Shadow or Allip)

b) this undead must be a kind that is always evil, barring extremely rare exceptions (eg, not Necropolitan)

c) preferably only a mild level adjustment if any (eg, not a vampire)

I'm considering maybe a ghoul, but what other ideas would fit the bill?

[OldTrees1]

I would suggest one with a diet dependency or inescapable craving(Libris Mortis pg 10) just to add another hurdle to RP.

So a Ghoul, Ghast, or Grave Touched Ghoul(best option LM pg 103) would be a great choice (and the only one I know that fulfills all 3 criteria & has a diet/craving).

[ExLibrisMortis]

Gravetouched ghoul is a pretty good template. +2 LA gets you +2 NA, three paralyzing natural attacks, and boosts to all your ability scores (+14 total). Half-vampire is also nice, but probably not as powerful.

[(Un)Inspired]

Cool idea for a pair of characters. I want to cast my vote for gravetouched ghoul. Do you think your DM would be open to LA buyoff?

[ShaneMRoth]

You are looking for an acquired template that is something between a Lich and a Zombie. If you can't find one, make one and get the DM to sign off on it.

I wonder... is there an 'interesting' character concept that doesn't create hours of bonus prep work for the DM?

Because that would be interesting.

[frogglesmash]

How much LA is too much LA? At the +4 range there's Vampire Spawn which would probably work pretty well, there's also the Corpse Creature, and Bone Creature templates in BoVD which are listed are "always evil" and are basically intelligent zombies and skeletons respectively, they don't have an LA though because they're 3.0. If you're willing to use a non template creature, there's Slaymate in Libris Mortis which is an undead child and could prove rather interesting. Being a Wight would probably work as well.

[holywhippet]

Not an undead, but have you considered a lycanthrope of some kind? Werewolves are always chaotic evil and wererats are always lawful evil. I think it would fit a bit better as the cleric could heal you as normal and they can't control/destroy/repel you using turn undead and spells.

[martixy]

*Bleeeeeeeh*
Oh, sorry, translation: Vampire.

I still like that idea over rotting corpses or what have you.

[JoranShadeslayr]

Crypt Spawn from Magic of Faerun has no level adjustment and is usually evil. You only get a bonus to NA based on HD and +4 racial bonus to intimidate, but it's an option that fits the criteria.

[JyP]

I agree also with Gravetouched Ghoul - in fact I had a PC with this template / paladin of tyranny in my group :)

Another option could be to use Savage Progression rules to have a "lesser" vampire, and I think it also covers lich and maybe ghoul - I cannot check on WotC site right now.

[Komatik]

Just use the LA as it is meant to and throw it to the trash can. Choose a cool creature and be done with it. For a smidge of balance, be human and sacrifice the feat or something. If your friend knows how to play, class levels determine like 98% of a character's power anyway and a competent Cleric is plenty scary.

Most LAs are more for "we don't actually want you to play this ever" than "it needs to be this high" anyway. If you lean towards a vampire, I'll plug my template. Does away with a lot of the cascading minionmancy potential, level drain brokenness while helping them be functional adventurers. #shamelessselfpromotion

Apart from that, ghoul seems like a great idea.

[OldTrees1]

I agree also with Gravetouched Ghoul - in fact I had a PC with this template / paladin of tyranny in my group :)

Another option could be to use Savage Progression rules to have a "lesser" vampire, and I think it also covers lich and maybe ghoul - I cannot check on WotC site right now.

The MM Ghoul, being a undead monster rather than a template, has its Monster Class in Libris Mortis.
Lich, being a template, has its Monster Class found in the Savage Progressions article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp) on the WotC website.

[The Viscount]

Because of how undead are, almost any undead monster has an obscene number of HD. As such templates are your better bet. Of the templates, few offer LA at all

As said before, Gravetouched Ghoul is very good for its LA, and it doesn't give stench so you don't have to worry about debuffing allies. I'd recommend Half Vampire as well, but it doesn't make you undead.

Curst is LA 3 and gives some hefty bonuses, but the stat adjustments are brutal.

Swordwraith doesn't give many things, but automatic 1 Strength damage on all attacks can easily be built on.

That's pretty much all I'd recommend, since the rest can't be bought off.

[Segev]

For your requirements - particularly the "almost always evil" bit - I don't think you'll find better advice than the Gravetouched Ghoul.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

How about a Ghost? The template might be a bit much on the LA front, but the Savage Progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) is excellent up to level 4, and if you can't buy off the LA, then even one or two levels get you many of the cool tricks, including the Undead type, a fly speed, telekinesis if you want it and incorporeality. Level 3 gets you near-immunity from TPKs and level 4 gets you magic jar or incredible ability damage delivery.

[BioCharge]

Curst is LA 3 and gives some hefty bonuses, but the stat adjustments are brutal.

Might I ask where you learned the level adjustment? The Monsters of Faerun is 3.0 and thus doesn't list it and I have not been able to find any other sources, myself.

[VariSami]

Might I ask where you learned the level adjustment? The Monsters of Faerun is 3.0 and thus doesn't list it and I have not been able to find any other sources, myself.

For some reason, Realmshelp lists it as having +3 LA. My best guess is that there exists errata of some sort for updating into 3.5 but that was the first source I came across.

[Ettina]

OK, now I'm torn.

I like the idea of being diet-dependent, so that's a mark in favour of playing a ghoul. But this character I've imagined as someone who'll do pretty much anything to ensure his own continued survival (kind of like Katherine from Vampire Diaries) so having had someone cast undeath after death (http://www.maleficarium.info/spell/DnD%20index/Data/spells/s_2539.html) to turn him into a crypt spawn would fit perfectly for his character.

Although I suppose he could have resorted to cannibalism to survive a famine, and that led to him being a ghoul. He wouldn't have done it unless it was literally a matter of life or death, though. Is that enough to become a ghoul?

[frogglesmash]

OK, now I'm torn.

I like the idea of being diet-dependent, so that's a mark in favour of playing a ghoul. But this character I've imagined as someone who'll do pretty much anything to ensure his own continued survival (kind of like Katherine from Vampire Diaries) so having had someone cast undeath after death (http://www.maleficarium.info/spell/DnD%20index/Data/spells/s_2539.html) to turn him into a crypt spawn would fit perfectly for his character.

Although I suppose he could have resorted to cannibalism to survive a famine, and that led to him being a ghoul. He wouldn't have done it unless it was literally a matter of life or death, though. Is that enough to become a ghoul?

You could have been turned by another ghoul.

[dysprosium]

Might I ask where you learned the level adjustment? The Monsters of Faerun is 3.0 and thus doesn't list it and I have not been able to find any other sources, myself.

There is a 3.5 update for Monsters of Faerun.



OP: Don't do the cannibalism--that leads to the wendigo template. :smallwink:

[The Viscount]

Might I ask where you learned the level adjustment? The Monsters of Faerun is 3.0 and thus doesn't list it and I have not been able to find any other sources, myself.

Curst is reprinted in Lost Empires of Faerun, where it receives a +3 LA. It is also in the 3.5 update, though tucked in an odd spot.

As for the cannibalism, the books all say that the legend that ghouls arise from cannibals isn't necessarily true.