Undead Army

[Ruethgar]

I was looking to make an undead army character and wanted to get the advice of the playground on what should go into it. Obviously the Libris Mortis Undead Leadership and the web article Undead Leasership (https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x) with Extra Followers and Leadership using the Libris Mortis allowance for undead. The Martial Monk Commander Fighter feat list lets us cheese in Leadership early leaving 19 levels and 6 feats remaining. What class should I go with? I was thinking Death Walker for the increase in commandable undead. However Orc Warlord and Dread Pirate don't go horrible together and could bolster my army significantly more than a mere 100 from Death Walker, and being melee would draw less suspicion that I control the undead legion ravaging the countryside. Crusader for the Cha synergy and White Raven maneuvers for the rest of the levels.

Any suggestions?

[frogglesmash]

Alternatively you could gain control of wight, or shadow somehow and start the wight/shadowpocolypse.

[OldTrees1]

Wait. First choose what kind of Undead Army you want and what size. The options that are good for one kind/size are terrible for the others.

Personally I like finite army that extends beyond my sight. So I avoid Rebuke Undead Wights(infinite army) and focus on the Command Undead spell(10,000s easy). I do pick up Undead Leadership but only for a cohort since there are way too few followers to mean anything at that size.

On the other hand maybe you want an army of casters. In that case you will have to settle for a much smaller size (~100) comprising of Leadership, Undead Leadership, and Rebuke Undead.


So what kind and size of army do you want?

[Ruethgar]

I was wanting a large army of weaker undead(skeletons and zombies mostly). Currently I have it at about 1800 by level 13 and little further gain, switching to full melee with Dread Pirate I can increase that more, but haven't yet.

How would you manage 10k with Command Undead? I know it has a long duration, but even with extend spell, 40 days 55 potential castings per day as a specialized wizard lets you maintain 2200, you could eternal wand it, but that would be ridiculously expensive and you aren't the caster of a trap so that wouldn't work.

[OldTrees1]

I was wanting a large army of weaker undead(skeletons and zombies mostly). Currently I have it at about 1800 by level 13 and little further gain, switching to full melee with Dread Pirate I can increase that more, but haven't yet.

How would you manage 10k with Command Undead? I know it has a long duration, but even with extend spell, 40 days 55 potential castings per day as a specialized wizard lets you maintain 2200, you could eternal wand it, but that would be ridiculously expensive and you aren't the caster of a trap so that wouldn't work.

Chain Spell Command Undead = (1+CL)*(CL)*(number of slots per day used per day)
So if CL=10 and you cast 4 times per day: (1+10)*(10)*(4)=440
Extend is a nice x2 mutiplier.

So a 20th level Dread Necromancer with Arcane Thesis Command Undead, Practiced Metamagic Chain Spell, and 28 Cha gets:
Extended Chain Command Undead [4th level spell] = 21*40=840
43 4th+ level spells
36,120 undead (more likely a bit less so that you have overlap and keep your higher level spells for day to day adventuring).

A cohort or two can double this number again.
However personally I like also grabbing Circle Magic for a nice juicy 40 caster level which doubles it yet again.

[Ruethgar]

I should have thought of metamagicing it up, my mind was functioning slow yesterday.

[OldTrees1]

For an undead army with you as the general I would suggest using Dread Necromancer as your base caster class, take leadership feats for additional cohort. The first should specialize on animation (via Fell Energy Desecrate, Dread Necromancer 8, Enhance Undead Wizard 1, and Corpse Crafter) but should not neglect Chain Spell for their contribution to your army. The second could be a Dread Necromancer/Prestige Bard to bring the Dragonfire Inspiration(while not neglecting the Chain Spell). Then you can take well timed Crusader dips/levels to grab White Raven.

[Segev]

I love the use of chain command undead, and wish I'd thought of it. I will offer this addition, however: pearls of power can recover spell slots expended. You can get chain command undead down to a 3rd level slot through Arcane Thesis(command undead) and...shoot, brain's blanking on it, but the one that lets you reduce metamagic for a particular school. This is only 9,000 gp per pearl. Not chump change, but affordable. For another caster level worth of minions for caster level days, that's probably not too bad. Make sure you're using it on the big HD minions.

[OldTrees1]

I love the use of chain command undead, and wish I'd thought of it. I will offer this addition, however: pearls of power can recover spell slots expended. You can get chain command undead down to a 3rd level slot through Arcane Thesis(command undead) and...shoot, brain's blanking on it, but the one that lets you reduce metamagic for a particular school. This is only 9,000 gp per pearl. Not chump change, but affordable. For another caster level worth of minions for caster level days, that's probably not too bad. Make sure you're using it on the big HD minions.

That gives you (1+CL)*(CL)*(1) per Memento Magica/Pearl of Power(although the school based metamagic reducer is 3/day IIRC). 9000gp(8000gp with Versatile Spellcaster) for an extra 420 undead sounds a bit expensive to me* but maybe something worth doing with your excess gold.

*Since your army is already large enough that it takes most/all of your WBL to double your army.

[Segev]

That gives you (1+CL)*(CL)*(1) per Memento Magica/Pearl of Power(although the school based metamagic reducer is 3/day IIRC). 9000gp(8000gp with Versatile Spellcaster) for an extra 420 undead sounds a bit expensive to me* but maybe something worth doing with your excess gold.

*Since your army is already large enough that it takes most/all of your WBL to double your army.

Well, yes and no. The thing is, you can use this not to "double the army" so much as to provide backup for when you want to reserve spell slots for adventuring.

There's also the Ring of Wizardry, which is 70 kgp if you're able to get it down to 3rd level spells; 100 kgp if you need 4th level slots (can't do it with 5th; that takes an epic ring of wizardry).

[OldTrees1]

Well, yes and no. The thing is, you can use this not to "double the army" so much as to provide backup for when you want to reserve spell slots for adventuring.

There's also the Ring of Wizardry, which is 70 kgp if you're able to get it down to 3rd level spells; 100 kgp if you need 4th level slots (can't do it with 5th; that takes an epic ring of wizardry).

I think the pearls are cheaper than the Ring.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You can have a look at the Horned Harbinger, Faiths & Pantheons p. 197. No spellcasting, but you get large boosts to the total HD of undead you can control through animate dead and rebuking. It's not as powerful as chained command undead, but the advantage is that undead you animate stay under your command, even in an AMF or when dispelled. It's a decent way to build an elite regiment or something.

A nice build is paladin of tyranny 2/dread necromancer 8/horned harbinger 2/halruaan elder 5/incantatrix 3.

Halruaan Elder (Shining South p. 27) provides the circle magic OldTrees1 mentioned. It also allows you to reduce the cost of chain spell by one, and one other metamagic feat, over the course of five levels. The paladin levels are just for the boost to saves - both DN and HH boost your animate dead cap based on charisma, and rebuking and spellcasting are also charisma-based. Practiced Spellcaster just about covers the lost CL from paladin and HH. Incantatrix is a simple persistomancy addition, not really critical but useful in any build.

[Xervous]

(although the school based metamagic reducer is 3/day IIRC)
For any prepared caster the pearls will just refresh the spell. "The spell is then prepared again, just as if it had not been cast."

However it does leave the spontaneous casters in no better place than you've stated.

[OldTrees1]

Oh yes, Horn Harbinger is a nice way to get Animate Dead without the gp cost. At the same time it boosts the amount you can animate with a single casting. I kinda wish the 7th level ability(Ranged Animation) came sooner. The first 3 levels (3rd gives Leadership as a Bonus feat option) are ok but 4-6 are lackluster.