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Snig
2015-06-16, 08:14 PM
just trying to tweak my goblin PC to balance him with the rest of the official races. Here is the writeup i'm considering using.


Goblin Traits

Ability Score Increase
Your Dexterity Score is increased by 2.

Age
Goblins mature at nearly twice the rate humans do. A goblin of even 10 years old could be considered an adult. Goblins tend to live fairly short and fast lives, even the lucky survivors rarely make it into a fifth decade.

Alignment
Most Goblins tend towards Neutral Evil. Their general behavior includes some very chaotic elements, but is balanced by their loyalty to their group and putting the needs of the tribe above their own. And yet, their desperate struggle for survival means that there is nearly no limit to the evils they are likely to exercise upon those outside their tribe.

Size
The average goblin is about 3 and a half feet tall and they weigh in at about 45 pounds. Your size is Small. Movement: Your base walking speed is 30 feet. You are a bit faster than other small humanoids.

Speed
Your base walking speed is 30 feet. You are a bit faster than other small humanoids.

Languages
You can speak, read and write Common and Goblin. Goblins have their own language that they more or less share with Bugbears and Hobgoblins. There are dialect differences, but they can be overcome with some extra effort. However, the races do not share a script. While Hobgoblins use a complicated pictographic script, Goblins use a simple phonetic script using heavily modified Dwarven characters.

Dark Vision
You are used to crawling around in dark tunnels and navigating dark forests in the dim of night, giving you superior vision in the darkness. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were in bright light and in darkness as if it were in tim light. You can't discern colors in darkness, only shades of black and white.

Nimble Step
Opportunity attacks made against you are made with disadvantage.

Sneaky
You have proficiency in the Stealth skill.

Goblin Subraces

Goblin have a number of subraces. Choose one of the following Goblin subraces.

Forest Goblins
As a forest goblin, you are at home in the deep woods, whether they be a temperate forest, a sweltering jungle or a dank swamp. Although primitive, you can survive among the many larger and more menacing creatures by your unique kinship with the beasts that also call these places home.

Forest goblins tend towards greener skin and larger ears and noses. They tend to have thin, scraggly black hair and many tribal tattoos. They are usually dressed in the hides of animals that served as previous meals and might wear bones as jewelry. Forest goblins are particularly famous for their fearsome wolf riders and their powerful shamans and druids.

Ability Score Adjustment: Your Wisdom score is increased by 1.

Animal Kinship: You can use Wisdom (Animal Handling) on wild animals as if they were domesticated animals, calming them, controlling them or keeping them as pets. You are also Proficient with one unusual mount of your choice with an CR no greater than 1/2 such a a wolf, black bear, panther, giant spider, giant bat, etc. You obtain this animal at character creation for a cost of 100gp.

Primitive Weapon Training: You have proficiency with whips, short bows and nets. In addition, when you make attacks with basic spears deal 1 additional damage.

Hill Goblins
As a hill goblin, you probably live under the foot or even the heel of another humanoid race. Perhaps you grew up as a slave, perhaps you grew up in the city hidden away in the abandoned structures, alleys or sewers. Or maybe you grew up as a highway bandit. Your life has been one of hiding and slipping out of the grasp of people bigger and stronger than you. You avoid fights unless you outnumber your opponents and at which time you excel at ganging up to beat and rob them.

Hill goblins usually have yellow or orange skin with small pug like noses. They usually have thick reddish brown or black hair and bright red or yellow eyes. They usually dress in scavenged clothing designed for other races and crudely modified to fit their bodies. Despite living in fear of larger races, who constantly seem to seek to slay or enslave them, they also the most open to interacting with other races in a non-combative way—most goblins who work alongside other races are hill goblins.

Ability Score Adjustments: Your Charisma score is increased by 1.

Slippery: You have advantage on Dexterity checks or saving throws to escape grapples, restraints or attacks that impede your movement.

Mob Tactics: You may reroll 1s on your attack and damage rolls when you make an attack against a creature that is engaged in melee combat with another creature.


I will be playing a forest goblin.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-06-17, 01:18 AM
Quick thought: what does Animal Kinship actually do? I doubt many DMs treat wild and domesticated aninals differently when resolving Animal Handling checks - if they've already called for the check, the nature of the animal doesn't really matter. And they're not going to retcon their DC to take into account some confusing racial ability.


Domestic Animal
Dungeon Master: The farmer's dog is yapping angrily and looks like it's about to break free from its chain.
Goblin PC: I run up and attempt to calm the dog down.
DM: Make a Wisdom (Animal Handling) check. Imagines DC about 15.
GPC: *rolls* Um... 8.
DM: You fail to calm the dog. Roll initiative.

Wild Animal
DM: A wild dog has been caught in a trap. It is enraged and about to break free!
GPC: I run up and attempt to calm the dog down.
DM: Make a Wisdom (Animal Handling) check. Imagines DC about 15.
GPC: *rolls* 12.
DM: You fail to calm the dog. Roll initiative.
GPC: But wait! I can treat wild animals as if they're domesticated!
DM: So... What does that mean? Wonders if the starting DC should be higher for wild animals. You still failed to calm it down. Now roll initiative or I'll give the dog a surprise round.



And as far as I'm concerned, you don't get proficiencies with individual types of mount. You have (or don't have) proficiency with the tool, 'Vehicles (Land)', and the skill, 'Animal Handling'. Between them, they cover all types of mount. Plus, not many characters can afford 100gp at character creation - you'd have to roll or use a (houseruled) wealth by level.

I would say that goblin society in general has domesticated wolves, worgs and giant spiders to use as mounts, and that you could potentially purchase one from an NPC animal breeder if you happened to encounter one. It doesn't need to be a racial ability at all.

PoeticDwarf
2015-06-17, 02:10 AM
The race sounds balaced for my.
Maybe a feature too many.

Troacctid
2015-06-17, 02:58 AM
I don't believe there are any starting packages that include 100 gp, unless you're using variant rules or selling some of your essential equipment at half price. Even if there were, I'd think not all mounts would have the same price.

Also, there's no mechanism to get a new mount if (when) your original one dies. So that's awkward.

Snig
2015-06-17, 04:21 AM
I wonder what would be a balanced racial to connect forest goblins with wolf mounts?

Does anyone have any suggestions?

There was this from another homebrew

Animal Kinship: You can use Wisdom (Animal Handling) on wild animals as if they
were domesticated animals, calming them, controlling them or keeping them as pets. You
may also use any animal large enough to carry you as a mount even if it hasn’t been bred
or trained for it.

could maybe change it to be specific to wolves?

Flashy
2015-06-17, 06:26 AM
I wonder what would be a balanced racial to connect forest goblins with wolf mounts?

Does anyone have any suggestions?

There was this from another homebrew

Animal Kinship: You can use Wisdom (Animal Handling) on wild animals as if they
were domesticated animals, calming them, controlling them or keeping them as pets. You
may also use any animal large enough to carry you as a mount even if it hasn’t been bred
or trained for it.

could maybe change it to be specific to wolves?

Honestly, why bother making it a specific racial ability? There are loads of other race/monster options associated with nonstandard mounts and they don't generally have specific features for them. Halflings don't get bonuses with riding dogs, for example. Making it a cultural thing in the universe and it entirely solves the problem without needing to resort to fiddly bonuses.

And as Ninja_Prawn wisely points out above Animal Kinship doesn't actually do anything when the rulebook doesn't make any official distinction between wild vs. domestic animals for the purposes of an animal handling check.

ImSAMazing
2015-06-17, 07:34 AM
just trying to tweak my goblin PC to balance him with the rest of the official races. Here is the writeup i'm considering using.


Goblin Traits

Ability Score Increase
Your Dexterity Score is increased by 2.

Age
Goblins mature at nearly twice the rate humans do. A goblin of even 10 years old could be considered an adult. Goblins tend to live fairly short and fast lives, even the lucky survivors rarely make it into a fifth decade.

Alignment
Most Goblins tend towards Neutral Evil. Their general behavior includes some very chaotic elements, but is balanced by their loyalty to their group and putting the needs of the tribe above their own. And yet, their desperate struggle for survival means that there is nearly no limit to the evils they are likely to exercise upon those outside their tribe.

Size
The average goblin is about 3 and a half feet tall and they weigh in at about 45 pounds. Your size is Small. Movement: Your base walking speed is 30 feet. You are a bit faster than other small humanoids.

Speed
Your base walking speed is 30 feet. You are a bit faster than other small humanoids.

Languages
You can speak, read and write Common and Goblin. Goblins have their own language that they more or less share with Bugbears and Hobgoblins. There are dialect differences, but they can be overcome with some extra effort. However, the races do not share a script. While Hobgoblins use a complicated pictographic script, Goblins use a simple phonetic script using heavily modified Dwarven characters.

Dark Vision
You are used to crawling around in dark tunnels and navigating dark forests in the dim of night, giving you superior vision in the darkness. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were in bright light and in darkness as if it were in tim light. You can't discern colors in darkness, only shades of black and white.

Nimble Step
Opportunity attacks made against you are made with disadvantage.

Sneaky
You have proficiency in the Stealth skill.

Goblin Subraces

Goblin have a number of subraces. Choose one of the following Goblin subraces.

Forest Goblins
As a forest goblin, you are at home in the deep woods, whether they be a temperate forest, a sweltering jungle or a dank swamp. Although primitive, you can survive among the many larger and more menacing creatures by your unique kinship with the beasts that also call these places home.

Forest goblins tend towards greener skin and larger ears and noses. They tend to have thin, scraggly black hair and many tribal tattoos. They are usually dressed in the hides of animals that served as previous meals and might wear bones as jewelry. Forest goblins are particularly famous for their fearsome wolf riders and their powerful shamans and druids.

Ability Score Adjustment: Your Wisdom score is increased by 1.

Animal Kinship: You can use Wisdom (Animal Handling) on wild animals as if they were domesticated animals, calming them, controlling them or keeping them as pets. You are also Proficient with one unusual mount of your choice with an CR no greater than 1/2 such a a wolf, black bear, panther, giant spider, giant bat, etc. You obtain this animal at character creation for a cost of 100gp.

Primitive Weapon Training: You have proficiency with whips, short bows and nets. In addition, when you make attacks with basic spears deal 1 additional damage.

Hill Goblins
As a hill goblin, you probably live under the foot or even the heel of another humanoid race. Perhaps you grew up as a slave, perhaps you grew up in the city hidden away in the abandoned structures, alleys or sewers. Or maybe you grew up as a highway bandit. Your life has been one of hiding and slipping out of the grasp of people bigger and stronger than you. You avoid fights unless you outnumber your opponents and at which time you excel at ganging up to beat and rob them.

Hill goblins usually have yellow or orange skin with small pug like noses. They usually have thick reddish brown or black hair and bright red or yellow eyes. They usually dress in scavenged clothing designed for other races and crudely modified to fit their bodies. Despite living in fear of larger races, who constantly seem to seek to slay or enslave them, they also the most open to interacting with other races in a non-combative way—most goblins who work alongside other races are hill goblins.

Ability Score Adjustments: Your Charisma score is increased by 1.

Slippery: You have advantage on Dexterity checks or saving throws to escape grapples, restraints or attacks that impede your movement.

Mob Tactics: You may reroll 1s on your attack and damage rolls when you make an attack against a creature that is engaged in melee combat with another creature.


I will be playing a forest goblin.
Move to homebrew design, it belongs there.

Snig
2015-06-18, 07:37 AM
So I took some of your guys advice and tried to make the wolf mounts avaliable as a cultural thing instead of a racial. I did this via a custom backround. Basically I took the Folk Hero feature and tweaked it a little bit. Let me know what you think or please make suggestions if you have any, particularly on naming the backround and feature

Backround: Tribal Nomad

Feature: Goblin Wolf Rider

Since you come from the ranks of the Goblin tribes,
you fit in among them with ease. Vou can find a place
to hide, rest, recuperate, or resupply among other Goblin tribes,
unless you have shown yourself to be a danger to
them. You may buy from or trade with other tribe members.
Typical Goblin trade goods would consist of simple armors and weapons, furs, as well as any random treasures or equipment they may have aquired during their raids.
Many Goblin tribes have also domesticated wolves to be used as mounts. These would usually be avaliable to you for a fee.

Person_Man
2015-06-18, 07:54 AM
This belongs in homebrew. You may wish to PM a moderator and ask them to move it.


Animal Kinship: You can use Wisdom (Animal Handling) on wild animals as if they were domesticated animals, calming them, controlling them or keeping them as pets. You are also Proficient with one unusual mount of your choice with an CR no greater than 1/2 such a a wolf, black bear, panther, giant spider, giant bat, etc. You obtain this animal at character creation for a cost of 100gp.

I would remove this ability, or dramatically change it, as it is way too powerful to have a special mount as racial ability.

I would suggest just giving them Proficiency in Animal Handling, and allow mount acquisition to be a roleplaying/equipment thing. If your DM is allowing homebrew, you should be able to have a conversation about having a cool mount.



Primitive Weapon Training: You have proficiency with whips, short bows and nets. In addition, when you make attacks with basic spears deal 1 additional damage.

I would drop the bonus damage. Bonuses are rare in 5E, and no other race offers a damage bonus.


Mob Tactics: You may reroll 1s on your attack and damage rolls when you make an attack against a creature that is engaged in melee combat with another creature.

Again, I would drop this. A reroll is basically a damage bonus. Bonuses are rare in 5E, and no other race offers a damage bonus.

Demonic Spoon
2015-06-18, 10:11 AM
I would drop the bonus damage. Bonuses are rare in 5E, and no other race offers a damage bonus.


All this does is makes a spear equal to a throwable d8(d10) melee weapon. It's equivalent to a longsword except you can throw it - it doesn't actually do more damage than other options. It's mostly there for the fluff of goblins using spears rather than longswords.

I would agree wholeheartedly if the bonus was given to a martial weapon.