"Character level" and Divine Power

[Segev]

Another thread just pointed out to me that divine power gives (amongst other perks) a BAB equal to your "character level." This is interesting to me because it once again brings to potential play the level adjustment/ECL as a semi-positive thing. Can you, in fact, cast Divine Power when you have a +3 LA and, say, 10 HD, and have a BAB of +13?

[Darrin]

Another thread just pointed out to me that divine power gives (amongst other perks) a BAB equal to your "character level." This is interesting to me because it once again brings to potential play the level adjustment/ECL as a semi-positive thing. Can you, in fact, cast Divine Power when you have a +3 LA and, say, 10 HD, and have a BAB of +13?

No. My understanding is ECL = CL + LA.

[Segev]

No. My understanding is ECL = CL + LA.

CL being "character level?"

What's your "character level" under that definition?

[Sian]

Effective Character Level = Character Level (or Hit Dice) + Level Adjustment

[Segev]

Effective Character Level = Character Level (or Hit Dice) + Level Adjustment

Do you have a rules quote to back that up?

The SRD says:
Add this number to the creature’s total Hit Dice, including class levels, to get the creature’s effective character level (ECL). A character’s ECL affects the experience the character earns, the amount of experience the character must have before gaining a new level, and the character’s starting equipment.

"Hit dice, including class levels," does not seem to reference "character level" except on the "effective character level" side of the equation.

Notably, divine power does not say "class level," "caster level," or "hit dice." It says "character level." ECL is what your character level effectively is.

[Darrin]

"Character Level" is defined on page 176 of the DMG:

"Character Level: The total level of the character, which is the sum of all class levels held by that character. For instance, a character with three levels of fighter and three levels of rogue has six character levels."

It does not include LA.

[Segev]

"Character Level" is defined on page 176 of the DMG:

"Character Level: The total level of the character, which is the sum of all class levels held by that character. For instance, a character with three levels of fighter and three levels of rogue has six character levels."

It does not include LA.

Interesting. This also does not include creature HD, which is an active weakness for things with non-class HD when it comes to divine power.

[Necroticplague]

A character has three different things that tell how strong they are in general. Let me use a Sharn Mystic Theurge 5 for my example.

CL:How many class levels you have. This example has 5 character levels (its levels in Mystic Theurge),

HD:How many times you've rolled for HP and progressed your BaB/saves. This character has 9 HD (4 RHD+5 from class levels).

ECL:What level they are considered to be for purposes of determining XP gain and WBL. This character has ECL 14 (4RHD+5CL+5LA).

Unfortunately, Divine Power only refers to the first, and not the latter. Your example character has ECL 13, but not necessarily CL 13 (unless the 10HD are class levels, in which case it would set your BaB to 10, but the LA is still weakening you).

[Darrin]

Interesting. This also does not include creature HD, which is an active weakness for things with non-class HD when it comes to divine power.

In the MM, ECL is defined as HD + LA. The "HD" portion is further defined as "hit dice + class levels". So from that we can deduce that "character level" = "hit dice + class levels".

[Segev]

In the MM, ECL is defined as HD + LA. The "HD" portion is further defined as "hit dice + class levels". So from that we can deduce that "character level" = "hit dice + class levels".

I'm not sure where you make that leap. Where do you see "HD = character level" to support that? Or what step in the process am I missing?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I'm not sure where you make that leap. Where do you see "HD = character level" to support that? Or what step in the process am I missing?

A creature’s “monster class” is always a favored class, and the creature never takes XP penalties for having it.
To determine the effective character level (ECL) of a monster character, add its level adjustment to its racial Hit Dice and character class level.

Those with 2 or more Hit Dice have statistics based on these Hit Dice plus Hit Dice for class levels (if any).

But then we have statements saying effectively the opposite:

Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels.

I'm forced to conclude that RAW on this issue is ambiguous enough to require a DM's judgement.