Initiator level question

[Theodred theOld]

Let's say a 6th level bard wanted to take a quick warblade dip (bard 6/warblade 1). What would his IL be? Would it be 1 since this is his first level of an initiator class ir would it reflect his total levels and be 4?

[Gabrosin]

Let's say a 6th level bard wanted to take a quick warblade dip (bard 6/warblade 1). What would his IL be? Would it be 1 since this is his first level of an initiator class ir would it reflect his total levels and be 4?

The latter. Each of your non-ToB class levels count as half an initiator level. So at level 6 your bard is IL 3, and the Warblade level jumps it to IL 4. Best to take that Warblade level at 9, where you'll be IL 5 and have access to stuff like Iron Heart Surge and White Raven Tactics, assuming you meet the prerequisites.

My upcoming bard character actually dips in both directions, starting off with Crusader 1 before later dipping Warblade 1 just as you describe. Finish out with some Jade Phoenix Mage and Sublime Chord and you've got a super versatile character. My progression is Crusader 1/Bard 5/JPM 2/Warblade 1/Bard 1/Sublime Chord 1/Spellsword 1/JPM 8, but if I weren't playing the character from level 1 on, I'd try to push back taking Crusader until level 5 (IL 3) and Warblade until level 10 (IL 7).

[Thurbane]

Just as an aside, there is some dispute as to whether racial HD count towards IL or not.

FWIW, I strongly believe that they do.

[OldTrees1]

Just as an aside, there is some dispute as to whether racial HD count towards IL or not.

FWIW, I strongly believe that they do.

Huh, strange. Although I agree that racial HD do count.

Also I just don't see a balance reason not to allow them to count.

[Venger]

Just as an aside, there is some dispute as to whether racial HD count towards IL or not.

FWIW, I strongly believe that they do.

who would argue against it? they have no ground to stand on: IL count as 1, other counts as 1/2. RHD is other, so it counts as 1/2.

[Malimar]

who would argue against it? they have no ground to stand on: IL count as 1, other counts as 1/2. RHD is other, so it counts as 1/2.

It's probably a highly RAW argument hinging on some language saying your IL = your levels in initiator classes + your other class levels, with RHD not being class levels.

(I, too, would allow RHD to count as 1/2, but I'm not a RAW absolutist.)

[Venger]

It's probably a highly RAW argument hinging on some language saying your IL = your levels in initiator classes + your other class levels, with RHD not being class levels.

(I, too, would allow RHD to count as 1/2, but I'm not a RAW absolutist.)

There is no such clause:


If you are a single-class character, your initiator level
equals your level in the class that provides access to martial
maneuvers (crusader, swordsage, or warblade). If you lack any
martial adept levels, your initiator level is equal to 1/2 your
character level.
(emphasis mine)

so there is no ground not to count RHD.

this isn't tomfoolery like drownhealing or anything, it's pretty low lvl RAW, so I wouldn't say defending this makes one an absolutist who says monks can't use their fists.

[Malimar]

But that only applies to single-class non-martial adepts. There's language for multiclass martial adepts/non-martial adepts on page 39,


If you are a multiclass martial adept and you learn a new maneuver by attaining a new level in a martial adept class, determine your initiator level by adding together your level in that class + 1/2 your levels in all other classes.

It's a bit silly, but there it is.

[Venger]

But that only applies to single-class non-martial adepts. There's language for multiclass martial adepts/non-martial adepts on page 39,



It's a bit silly, but there it is.
but RHD work like class levels. you have "levels" of outsider or whatever and feats, skills, etc.

I see what you're saying, but that seems like a willful misreading. if someone's crippling themselves by using something with RHD, they hardly need further handicaps .

[Malimar]

but RHD work like class levels. you have "levels" of outsider or whatever and feats, skills, etc.

I see what you're saying, but that seems like a willful misreading. if someone's crippling themselves by using something with RHD, they hardly need further handicaps .

Yeah, I agree.

[Theodred theOld]

Went back to ToB and found what I needed but this RHD vs class levels debate is kinda interesting.

[Sacrieur]

who would argue against it? they have no ground to stand on: IL count as 1, other counts as 1/2. RHD is other, so it counts as 1/2.

I would. Racial HD aren't class levels.

I don't see how having Racial HD would make you any better at knowing and executing maneuvers. It even states the reasoning behind this is that class levels represents experience towards executing them. In other words, a character is gifted Racial HD but must earn XP.

[Thurbane]

Except when they get levels through a racial class progression. Although I suppose these would meet the criteria of "class levels" anyway...