[3.5] Help adding character classes to a humanoid monster

[macdaddy]

I have a party of 4th level adventurers and I am adding a side-trek adventure to the current campaign. I have decided on using Lizardmen as the antagonist. A standard lizardman is a CR1.

However, If I add character levels to a lizardman, it has 2 racial HD and a LA of +1. So by rule, if I add a single level of Druid/Ranger/Barbarian, then the result is a CR4 (2 RHD + 1 LA + 1 Character level) critter.

That makes NO sense.

What do I do to correct this:
1. Ignore it and treat each added character level as +1 CR
2. Drop the RHD and LA, and treat as a CR equal to the character level
3. Follow the rules....

[OldTrees1]

1) Monsters are measured in CR and HD, not in ECL so just ignore the LA.

2) Monster CR rules with class levels are weird and usually fallacious. So instead assume each class level adds +1CR.

So Standard Lizardfolk(1CR) + 1 level = 1CR+1CR = 2CR.
Now when your PCs cast sleep it looks at the Lizardfolks HD. 2RHD + 1 level = 3HD.

[Karl Aegis]

A lizardfolk without class levels has CR = 1/3 of its character level or CR = 1/2 HD: 1. This is because it has no abilities that could use a party's resources besides target AC deal hit point damage. Associated class levels add 1 to its CR, two non-associated class levels add 1 to its CR.

They don't actually tell you what the associated class levels are, but its favored class is druid. It's probable that one level of druid would increase the CR of the lizardfolk. An elite array for the lizardfolk would increase the CR by 1, as well. So a lizardfolk druid with the elite array (15 in wisdom, 14+2 in constitution) would have a CR of 3 if you include a medium viper animal companion. Make sure you give it gear appropriate for a CR 3 encounter with 50% loot, as the lizardfolk entry.

[OldTrees1]

@Karl Aegis
Huh?
How could it be 1/3*(X+Y) or 1/2*(X) when class levels(Y) are more useful than RHD(X)?

Are you trying to describe RAW or describe Truth?

[Flickerdart]

I have a party of 4th level adventurers and I am adding a side-trek adventure to the current campaign. I have decided on using Lizardmen as the antagonist. A standard lizardman is a CR1.

However, If I add character levels to a lizardman, it has 2 racial HD and a LA of +1. So by rule, if I add a single level of Druid/Ranger/Barbarian, then the result is a CR4 (2 RHD + 1 LA + 1 Character level) critter.

That makes NO sense.

What do I do to correct this:
1. Ignore it and treat each added character level as +1 CR
2. Drop the RHD and LA, and treat as a CR equal to the character level
3. Follow the rules....
You calculate monster CRs different from player character ECLs. Just add +1 CR to the lizardman's CR for every level of ranger you add.

[Karl Aegis]

@Karl Aegis
Huh?
How could it be 1/3*(X+Y) or 1/2*(X) when class levels(Y) are more useful than RHD(X)?

Are you trying to describe RAW or describe Truth?

(X+Z)/3 or X/2 where Z is LA and X is RHD.

[OldTrees1]

(X+Z)/3 or X/2 where Z is LA and X is RHD.

Huh? LA has nothing to do with CR either in theory(because it tries to account for the different evaluation of limited resources vs At Will resources) or in practice(because WotC assigned LA arbitrarily).

Sidenote: Character level usually(RAW) means HD total since Effective Character Level = Character Level + Level Adjustment.

[Karl Aegis]

Huh? LA has nothing to do with CR either in theory(because it tries to account for the different evaluation of limited resources vs At Will resources) or in practice(because WotC assigned LA arbitrarily).

Sidenote: Character level usually(RAW) means HD total since Effective Character Level = Character Level + Level Adjustment.

CR is also assigned arbitrarily.

[MightBeABook]

This page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#advancedMonsterChallengeRati ng)is probably your most useful resource for determining CR. Many people will advise you to houserule that all class levels add +1 CR, ignoring the associated/nonassociated divisions on that page, and that's because moderately heavy use of nonassociated class levels can quickly make monsters much stronger than their CR indicates.

Note that Level Adjustment isn't mentioned anywhere on the linked page; that's because LA only has relevance to ECL, which only applies to PC's (and Cohorts), not monsters. This is because LA is supposed to be a measure of how strong the capabilities it gives to PC's are, and CR increases are supposed to measure the difficulty of an encounter for a party. Since PC noncombat capabilities tend to be more valuable than those same abilities on monsters, LA is generally inflated relative to CR. The best example of this is the Vampire Template, with an LA of +8 and a CR increase of +2.

[Urpriest]

If you're confused about the difference between ECL and CR, you're likely confused about much more fundamental things. I recommend you read my Monster Handbook, link in sig.