Can you implement skills into combat, without weighing down game play?

[djreynolds]

I really like the skills, simpler. But could social skills could be used in or influence combat?
Could deception or sleight of hand influence sneak attacks?
Battle master has goading or menacing strike.
Is it enough just to say take the martial adept feat?
Or could intimidation or perform do more?

[Ninja_Prawn]

I really like the skills, simpler. But could social skills could be used in or influence combat?
Could deception or sleight of hand influence sneak attacks?
Battle master has goading or menacing strike.
Is it enough just to say take the martial adept feat?
Or could intimidation or perform do more?

You can definitely use skills in combat. Generally, I'd rule that making a skill check costs an action (or more), but there are all sorts of situations where that could be useful.

No sure about Sleight of Hand, but from the top of my head:


Intimidation checks should pretty much work as normal.
Stealth and Perception checks are an important part of combat.
Athletics and Acrobatics checks are used for grappling, climbing, maybe swimming.
Animal Handling could come up if you're a mounted combatant.
PCs enter a room, door locks behind them. They get in a fight and want to flee, so the rogue spends a turn picking the lock.
PC gets challenged to a duel in a crowded place. The crowd parts and we roll initiative... The other PCs in the crowd can't take part in the fight, but maybe one of them wants to sneak around, making SoH checks to pickpocket bystanders.
Int skills can be used to study unfamiliar monsters and recall lore about them. Risky, in combat, but it would fit with some 'sage' characters' flaws.

[DragonLordIT]

We use skill checks in combat in many ways, both as bonus action or action depending on what you are doing.
-Religion/arcana/nature checks (depending on you opponent) are used whenever my players want to understand something about their foe: possible strategies, foe aims, why he is fighting and so on
-Acrobatics/athletics: gaining good positions, using tables and objects to gain temporary cover, making a "surprise" attack hanging from a chandelier, throwing yourself from a ledge and so, and all "manual" actions like push, shove, trip, tumble and so on
-insight: understanding if your opponent is charmed, under control of someone or a polimorphed monster
-perception: need explanation?
-Int rolls: we use them to solve "strategic" problems, such: "do you really manage to cast that fireball among enemies keeping your allies outside the boom???"
-history: recognizing the enemy general/commander among his ranks during a battle
-dex rolls: going aroung the battlefield to reach that general
-persuasion: incite your men to follow you and make you an opening ro reach that geneal
-stealth: reach that damned general in the battlefield without attracting attention by his men in the chaos of battle

[DragonLordIT]

Just to make a very real example: my players encountered a group of 5 aggressive griffons (casual encounter) while travelling through the mountains: the encounter went this way (or very similarly, it happened some time ago)
"Are they going to attack us?" --->Asked for a nature check medium difficulty (pass) ---->No they seem to be upset for some reason, if you push and continue they may attack
"We try to seem harmless!!"--->Group animal handling check medium difficulty (pass)---> Ok the griffons won't probably attack but won't allow you to pass
"Is there a way to go around them?"---->Survival check hard difficulty, (fail)---->No and they are getting upset of your presence
"Do I know what griffons fear or like?"--->Nature check easy (pass) --->You remember that they like horses
"I try to deceive them with a minor illusion of horse sounds from the woods" --->Nature against griffon perception (pass) -->The griffons are distracted but they'll notice the trick quickly
"we walk away trying to find a new way" ----Survival check medium (pass) ---->Using some ours in the woods of the mountain you find an alternative way to avoid the griffin territory

Not a single attack . . . .

[Person_Man]

Yes. And its pretty easy. I use this house rule:

Player describes whatever they want to do. ("I want to swing from the chandelier, kick over the statue, and have it land on the goblins below!")

DM tells the player what Skill would be most appropriate to resolve it, and tell them the DC you are setting for success.

Let them decide whether or not they still want to do it. If they do, then they resolve it as an Action with 1 Skill roll.

Have the results match the level of difficulty (success in a very difficult stunt = very effective outcome).

Combat encounters should be designed with specific "set pieces" that encourage this (distinctive furniture, waterfall, geyser, lava, statues, forge, boulders, fog, whatever), and you should take the time to describe them before combat starts.

Avoid setting precedents for ways Skills could be used without interaction with a set piece or situation specific to that encounter. For example, using social Skills in place of Fear effects or Acrobatics for martial arts moves or whatever. That strongly encourages the player to spam the same Skill use in every combat, makes the rules more fiddly and convoluted, and can lead to unbalanced rules very quickly.

Avoid the temptation to break things up into multiple rolls (Acrobatics to swing, attack roll to kick over the statue, then a Reflex Save for the goblins below) even if you think it "makes more sense" - because doing so makes a successful outcome dramatically less likely, it slows down the game, and it discourages the players from being creative.

When in doubt, Rule of Cool.

[djreynolds]

Just to make a very real example: my players encountered a group of 5 aggressive griffons (casual encounter) while travelling through the mountains: the encounter went this way (or very similarly, it happened some time ago)
"Are they going to attack us?" --->Asked for a nature check medium difficulty (pass) ---->No they seem to be upset for some reason, if you push and continue they may attack
"We try to seem harmless!!"--->Group animal handling check medium difficulty (pass)---> Ok the griffons won't probably attack but won't allow you to pass
"Is there a way to go around them?"---->Survival check hard difficulty, (fail)---->No and they are getting upset of your presence
"Do I know what griffons fear or like?"--->Nature check easy (pass) --->You remember that they like horses
"I try to deceive them with a minor illusion of horse sounds from the woods" --->Nature against griffon perception (pass) -->The griffons are distracted but they'll notice the trick quickly
"we walk away trying to find a new way" ----Survival check medium (pass) ---->Using some ours in the woods of the mountain you find an alternative way to avoid the griffin territory

Not a single attack . . . .

That's cool, the group I joined had to infiltrate a castle and had no combat. They receive a renown point.

I guess my question is more combat orientated. The battle master has some cool maneuvers, like menacing or goading, etc. There is the martial adept feat, as well. But I was just wondering if deception could be implemented into combat. Same with other skills, if even to add disadvantage. I imagine a rogue, bard, or barbarian to be naturals at menacing others like the battlemaster. Our bards intimidation score is really high, couldn't he menace. Or does this ruin the flair of the battle master. Do I tell them just take the martial adept feat or multiclass into battle master and I'll this you a plus in the attack.
Always great feedback thanks as always

[Ninja_Prawn]

That's cool, the group I joined had to infiltrate a castle and had no combat. They receive a renown point.

I guess my question is more combat orientated. The battle master has some cool maneuvers, like menacing or goading, etc. There is the martial adept feat, as well. But I was just wondering if deception could be implemented into combat. Same with other skills, if even to add disadvantage. I imagine a rogue, bard, or barbarian to be naturals at menacing others like the battlemaster. Our bards intimidation score is really high, couldn't he menace. Or does this ruin the flair of the battle master. Do I tell them just take the martial adept feat or multiclass into battle master and I'll this you a plus in the attack.
Always great feedback thanks as always

Shall I compare Menacing Strike to Intimidate?
The former is more fearsome, as its name befits
And has a much higher success rate
For it rides an attack that has already hit
There is no opportunity cost
And you get an extra d8
With a skill check all your damage is lost
And the end result in the hands of fate
Will your DM allow a skill check
To inflict the 'frightened' effect
Or let your real-life acting wreck
A d20 roll that's almost perfect?
I hereby declare that this poem shows
That skill checks don't step on maneuvers' toes

...yes, I am preparing to play a bard in an upcoming campaign. :smallbiggrin:

[ThermalSlapShot]

Yes. And its pretty easy. I use this house rule:

Player describes whatever they want to do. ("I want to swing from the chandelier, kick over the statue, and have it land on the goblins below!")

DM tells the player what Skill would be most appropriate to resolve it, and tell them the DC you are setting for success.

Let them decide whether or not they still want to do it. If they do, then they resolve it as an Action with 1 Skill roll.

Have the results match the level of difficulty (success in a very difficult stunt = very effective outcome).

Combat encounters should be designed with specific "set pieces" that encourage this (distinctive furniture, waterfall, geyser, lava, statues, forge, boulders, fog, whatever), and you should take the time to describe them before combat starts.

Avoid setting precedents for ways Skills could be used without interaction with a set piece or situation specific to that encounter. For example, using social Skills in place of Fear effects or Acrobatics for martial arts moves or whatever. That strongly encourages the player to spam the same Skill use in every combat, makes the rules more fiddly and convoluted, and can lead to unbalanced rules very quickly.

Avoid the temptation to break things up into multiple rolls (Acrobatics to swing, attack roll to kick over the statue, then a Reflex Save for the goblins below) even if you think it "makes more sense" - because doing so makes a successful outcome dramatically less likely, it slows down the game, and it discourages the players from being creative.

When in doubt, Rule of Cool.

This, so much this.

My only change would be I allow players to say how they will do itnvia a skill (Athletics) and I'll tell them if that makes sense. If it doesn't than I'll give them another skill or an option.

If a player wanted to do what was described above with acrobatics then that's fine. If they want to do it with Sleight of Hand... Not so much lol.

[Steampunkette]

A lot of skills in my encounters are free actions, bonus actions, or part of a move action.

I'll let a player fire off a social skill as a bonus action, essentially calling for something while fighting.

Knowledge skills are straight free actions. It doesn't take any physical activity to remember something or recognize some spell. Same thing with Insight and Perception.

Acrobatics, Athletics, Handle Animal to ride? All part of a move action. If you wanna jump over difficult terrain to avoid the extra movement penalty, make a roll based on how much danger you're in. If you succeed, follow the jump rules normally (strength score in feet for horizontal. strength mod +3 for vertical). Stealth in the same way. Acro and Ath can both be used in grapples and the like, too.

Sleight of Hand is one of the only skills I allow as an action, so long as you're stealthed. Unless you're a Thief subclass rogue. Then you can bonus action steal even if you're not hidden, so long as you could sneak attack your target. And then there's Medicine for stabilizing.

Really, the only skill I don't allow in combat is Survival... except that I allow it as a knowledge skill... Nevermind!

[djreynolds]

Feedback is great.
My dilemma is a battlemaster with negative intimidation performing a menacing strike and our bard who has like a 6 and can't scare a thing in combat.

[ThermalSlapShot]

Feedback is great.
My dilemma is a battlemaster with negative intimidation performing a menacing strike and our bard who has like a 6 and can't scare a thing in combat.

There is different ways of intimidating, words are not always as useful as slicing through rubes with a big ass sword.