Improved grab and natural attack damage

[Hiro Quester]

I am playing a druid7monk1 who spends a lot of time in leopard wildshape.

Studying the rules about how improved grab and rake interact in a grapple, I thought I had finally figured things out. This excellent summary (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?30882-Monster-Grappling-fully-explained) of monster grappling answered all my questions but one.

Imagine my PC in leopard wildshape bites successfully, and wins the opposed grapple check. I am now grappling the enemy.

Improved grab says this:


A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

The creature I am grappling, on its turn, struggles against the grapple and I make an opposed grapple check to maintain the grapple.

If I win this opposed grapple check to maintain the grapple, do I get to chew on it a bit more and do bite damage as it struggles unsuccessfully to escape? Or is it only on my turn that I deal bite damage on a successful grapple check?

[Venger]

you only deal bite damage on your turn.

the only ability that activates on an opponent's turn in a grapple is constrict, as mentioned in the quoted text.

[Hiro Quester]

Are you sure constrict does damage on the grapple check made on the opponent's turn, when they attempt to escape the grapple?

It seems like either both should damage, or neither. That text only differs in the amount of damage, not when its inflicted (on each successful grapple check).

[Urpriest]

The Rules Compendium clarified/changed a lot of this. In particular, it's explicit that the bonus Constrict and Improved Grab damage only happens when you make a check to deal damage on your turn, not when you win a grapple check in other circumstances.

[The Viscount]

To the best of my interpretation and knowledge, the successful grapple checks it refers to on subsequent rounds is not the grapple checks made in opposition to an escaping opponent, but grapple checks you make on your turn as part of your actions in a grapple. One of your options in a grapple is simply make a grapple check to damage your opponent. If you have improved grab, the damage you deal is equal to whatever weapon triggers improved grab. If you have constrict, you add on that damage as well. Remember you can make as many grapple checks to damage in a round as you have iteratives from BA.

The wording for the srd is a little unhelpful here, this is one of the times when Rules Compendium helps out simply by wording things a little better.

Note that the handbook you linked to is incorrect in one respect. If a creature uses pounce and has rakes, it can only use those rakes during the charge if it successfully starts a grapple. Again the srd is unhelpful in this and the Rules Compendium clears things up.

[Hiro Quester]

I should have thought to check the rules compendium. That's what I expected. Thanks, Urpriest.

Edit: I see. rules compendium p. 101:


Whenever the creature makes a successful grapple check to deal damage, it deals the damage indicated for the natural weapon that it used to make the improved grab.