Duelist help, first time playing 5th.

[Kwinza]

Hi guys, I was wondering if any one was able to lend me a quick hand.

I want to make a character that is a high born diplomat who is a trained duelist, mostly as a sporting exercise but of course the game will focus on him getting substantially better at fighting haha.

Currently what I have in mind is a half elf, dex based fighter moving into battle master when I'm level 3 with the noble background.

My main concern is, would this be nerfing myself or are there ways to make this work well? Or best of all is my current idea not bad at all?


Cheers for any help :)

[Ninja_Prawn]

Should be fine. Dex fighters are perfectly viable, half-elf is a good race all-round, the duellist fighting style is competitive.

You'll also have plenty of non-combat utility if you play up the noble background, half-elf charisma and insight/persuasion/history skills.

[Kwinza]

Sweet, cheers!

Can I be cheeky and ask for any tips on where to go after level 1? :)

[lordshadowisle]

Dex fighters are quite viable in 5e, due to the usefulness of DEX stat. Defensively, at high levels you're only 1 ac behind heavy armor wearers, and this is offset by the common DEX save. Offensively, STR only gives access to heavy weapons (which enables the Great Weapon Master feat for massive damage). DEX is slightly less damaging in melee, but makes up for this with good ranged capabilities.

Also, just to clarify, by "duelist" do you mean the "duelist" fighting style or a more generic expert swordsman type of character? Interestingly, if it's the latter, "duelist" fighting style might not be as compatible with the character concept, because most players will use the free hand to hold a shield. Of course, nothing's stopping you from not wielding a shield (it's just suboptimal).

Another fighting style which you can consider might be two-weapon fighting; your character concept will now be a ambidextrous swordsman.

[MrStabby]

You could also go dex based Paladin if you wanted to - Cha would help its abilities and fit your ideal of a Charismatic diplomat. Paladins also get duelist style I think.

[Ninja_Prawn]

... a more generic expert swordsman type of character? Interestingly, if it's the latter, "duelist" fighting style might not be as compatible with the character concept,

Actually a good point. I would go so far as to say that the Swashbuckler (a rogue subclass from Unearthed Arcana) is more thematically appropriate. Especially if you can get a houserule about dual-wielding rapier & parrying dagger.

Other advice: consider the Shield Master feat, maximise your maneuver damage (note that a rogue can sneak attack via your Commander's Strike), don't dump Con.

[Person_Man]

I agree that Dex Fighter is fine. But I personally would prefer Rogue instead of Fighter.

In the long run Sneak Attack (which is ridiculously easy to trigger in this edition) will end up giving you much damage with Finesse weapons then Fighting Style/Extra Attack.

Expertise is one of the best Skill buffs in the game, and can be applied to whatever you want.

If there's a strong desire for Action Surge and/or Battlemaster Maneuvers, then I would still suggest taking 7 or 8 levels of Rogue first (enough to get all the Rogue's best abilities), and then heading into Fighter.

[Kwinza]

I'm limited to just the PHB I'm afraid.
And my concept is to use a rapier :)

[Once a Fool]

I'm going to go against the grain and say that, for a duelist, keeping a free hand is not as suboptimal as the numbers would suggest. Being able to attack someone as you're swinging on a chandelier or rope is a wonderful thing, as is being able to climb a rope, ladder, or rigging without taking an action to unstrap a shield from your arm.

If that's the way you want to go, though, consider the defense fighting style to help mitigate the lack of a shield and seriously consider the mobility, defensive duelist, and athletic feats (in that order).

[DireSickFish]

I like your original setup. The one thing that will really help you in a dual that a fighter gets plenty off is feats. The Defensive Duelist feat is amazing in 1v1 fights because it only works against 1 attack a round but provides a huge defensive bonus for that attack. Combine that with Shield Master and the Dueling fighting style and you'll have uses for your bonus action, reaction and standard action every round in a dual that doesn't cost any extra resources.

I'm not super familiar with the Battle Master Maneuvers so refer to a handbook for that or other peoples advice. I think Battle Master is a good fit though because the superiority dice will allow you to front load your damage in a dual so that you can win it.

Person_Man, if he's going to be a duelist how is he going to proc sneak attacks? I'm not sure how you'd continually generate advantage for yourself, and being in a dual means no allies are adjacent to him.

Edit: Even if it won't help you in a dual it is based off CHA, Rally might be a worthwhile maneuver for you to take.

This: http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4141981 is a good fighter guide.

[Lolzyking]

I'd personally think a fighter rogue would work best

also, I really don't get how some dm's can be stingy and say unearthed arcana from the WOTC official website, are not official archetypes, sure they might not be as playtested as the phb material, but even then not all of that was tested at all (beast master, elemental monk)

Swashbuckler was made by wizards, for dnd 5e, should be allowed.

a 12rogue/8 battlemaster fighter is good mix, preferably with swashbuckler rogue, however with battlemaster you can still force advantage.

Distracting strike, Feint attack, and trip attack all net you advantage on your next attack on the target.

Parry and Riposte also fit the duelist theme, filling up the last 2 manuevers.

going 12 rogue 8 fighter also nets you 7 ability score increases or feats, extra attack, action surge, good stealth, the groups trap/lock/skill guy position ( could background it, that in the character's youth they were constantly breaking into their fathers study, his antique cases, and weapon cabinet, to look at the valuable and interesting things.

[PoeticDwarf]

Hi guys, I was wondering if any one was able to lend me a quick hand.

I want to make a character that is a high born diplomat who is a trained duelist, mostly as a sporting exercise but of course the game will focus on him getting substantially better at fighting haha.

Currently what I have in mind is a half elf, dex based fighter moving into battle master when I'm level 3 with the noble background.

My main concern is, would this be nerfing myself or are there ways to make this work well? Or best of all is my current idea not bad at all?


Cheers for any help :)

If you play a DEX fighter, you often want to play an archer. But if you use a rapier with a shield, with the dueling feat, of course. You do enough damage and you're also tanky. The half-elf idea isn't the problem. If you want to be a character with a high CHA it's nice. And you can put +1 in DEX and +1 in CON so you probably have at first levels 3 scores of 16 and if you want to go MAD 2x 16 and 1x 14.
I don't see how a battle master is worse than an eldritch knight or a champion.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Swashbuckler was made by wizards, for dnd 5e, should be allowed.

The Aarakocra race was made by wizards as well, and released in a rather official fashion, but few people would say it's inclusion in a campaign should be automatic. Wizards even put disclaimers in the PHB that many elements are optional and at a DM's discretion. Drow for instance.

A lot of the UA material is terribly thought out and balanced, the Swashbuckler especially. A lot of the material reads like brainstorming notes rather than usable mechanics. They definitely need refinement before using them.

[Lolzyking]

what swashbuckler gets out of getting sneak attack in 1vX range is a trade off

They lose out on utility that even the assassin subclass out shines them in regards too.

anyone they attack cannot Opportunity attack them, this screws them over and is useless if A) the enemy can keep up with their regular movement speed, B) they are outnumbered more than 2 to 1

panache is about as useful as the dm lets it be.

An arcane trickster is just as good at getting its sneak attack off as a swashbuckler due to familiar shenanigans

[Arial Black]

My first (and still favourite) 5E PC is Lord FlashHeart ('Flash' to his friends), a single class battle master fighter (now 5th level, nearly 6th).

Stats: Str 8 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 13 Cha 16. (I love that I can afford to make him so charismatic without feeling I gimped my PC)

Fighting style: duelist (for the +2 damage)

Weapon: silvered rapier, which I fluff as a 'Faberge Blade' (which I can afford at 1st level because I didn't buy any armour or ranged weapons)

Shield? No. I have better things to do with my hand, and I don't want my swashbuckler going round hiding behind a viking roundshield.

What do I do with my other hand? At 1st level (variant human) I took the feat Magic Initiate. The 1st level spell is mage armour, so my AC is even better than the best light armour. My cantrips are prestidigitation which has many uses, not least of which is staying clean and looking good; and ray of frost as my ranged weapon, which requires a free hand. I've since bought some darts to throw. The cantrip could have been any cantrip with a good range and an attack roll.

My battle master moves are parry, riposte and precision attack. They make me awesome! I rarely miss thanks to the latter, and I once had a duel with an NPC that had more attacks than me, twice as many hit points, and I killed her and a combination of parry and second wind meant that I finished the duel on full hit points!

My first three ASIs are +2 Dex (twice) and Defensive Duelist. This means that if my enemy misses me I use my reaction to riposte. If he hits me, but within my proficiency bonus of missing, I use my reaction to turn that hit into a miss with the feat. If he hits by more than that, I use my reaction to parry and reduce the damage.

This PC is quite deliberately made as a one-on-one duelist swashbuckler; no armour or shield, rapier, still has ranged attack. In fact, in two separate duels I've managed to persuade my opponent that 'proper' duels are fought unarmoured, and my high Cha and proficiency in persuasion meant that he was AC 10 instead of 18, while my mage armour spell keeps my AC at 16+, while not actually being armour and not being visible anyway.

I am having enormous fun playing Flash! I didn't need to compromise my unarmoured single rapier charismatic swashbuckling duelist vision, and I'm still a very, very effective melee combatant for my party, while still having loads of out-of-combat effectiveness and plenty of role-play. : )

[Ninja_Prawn]

Shield? No. I have better things to do with my hand

Like sweeping buxom wenches off their feet? Woof!

FLASH BY NAME, FLASH BY NATURE!!!

I hope he wears a dress in combat...

[Arial Black]

Like sweeping buxom wenches off their feet?

FLASH BY NAME, FLASH BY NATURE!!!

I hope he wears a dress in combat...

No dress stays worn for long when Lord Flash is around! : )

[Kwinza]

Like sweeping buxom wenches off their feet? Woof!

FLASH BY NAME, FLASH BY NATURE!!!

I hope he wears a dress in combat...

WOOF!

I miss rick..

[Ninja_Prawn]

WOOF!

I miss rick..

We all do. u_u

[Easy_Lee]

1 to 6 as a battlemaster fighter is solid. You get two feats in that time, DEX and medium armor will serve you well, and your maneuvers will be useful forever. I strongly recommend shield mastery, as DEX dueling fighters get the best of all it's benefits.

Beyond 6 you have some options. If you don't want to stay fighter, rogue will give you a scaling attack bonus, great skill usage, more options, and let you pick up a second archetype. SA works very well with both shield mastery and Riposte. Four levels of bear totem barbarian would let you tank like a king, though you don't benefit much from the strength based barbarian abilities. Going pure fighter from there would also be completely fine, making you better at the things you already do.

I like the rogue option, of course, but that's just my preference. As said, starting rogue and going into fighter from there will net you more skills in the long run, though CON and STR saving throw proficiency may be more useful to you.

[Vogonjeltz]

I'm limited to just the PHB I'm afraid.
And my concept is to use a rapier :)

Sounds good, you can even wear the starting Chain mail (16 AC) at level 1 if your str is at least a 13.

If you can pick feats, I'd probably get: Defensive Duelist, Martial Adept, Mobile (to simulate fencing), and Sentinel.
Some classic fencing Maneuvers: Riposte, Parry, Lunging Attack, Disarming Attack, Feinting Attack, Evasive Footwork (actually many of the Battlemaster maneuvers are well suited to the idea of fencing).

Good luck!