Ninjas or samurai?

[ufo]

So, yeah, me and a friend had a discussion over which was cooler: Ninja or Samurai?

To end this conflict, I have come to this place of wisdom (hah!) and ask and you smart people.

Which is cooler? Ninja or samurai?


(Also, yay! First poll ever!)

[Arang]

I voted ninjas, but I want to change my vote. Samurai have the whole thing where they cut people with swords.

[Da Beast]

Samurais were lame. Go Ninja!

[Castaras]

Ninjas were lame. Go Samurai! [/copycat]

[ufo]

I voted ninjas, but I want to change my vote. Samurai have the whole thing where they cut people with swords.

(Don't ninjas cut people with swords too? Don't ninjas too, at a higher rate even?)

[Timberwolf]

Samauri - Funny hair, nice sword, funny pants

Ninja - normal hair, nice sword, can wear black, equal opportunities employer, has shurikens, can do all the neat moves

Ninja ftw !

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Well Samurai are cool and all that, what with the whole honor thing. But ninjae are even cooler. I mean, I'm looking at one right now, and I can't even see him! :smallwink:

[fryer1]

There's only one way to sort this. Fight! (http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Ninja&word2=Samurai)

Ninja!

[Mr. Moon]

Shinobi all the way!

I mean, Samuri are cool, they have Usagi, but Shinobi, we have:


http://narutosource.free.fr/Orochimaru.jpg

Orrochimaru-sama.

Isn't he sexy?

[SDF]

There's only one way to sort this. Fight! (http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Ninja&word2=Samurai)

Ninja!

Wait you are going to use google fight, a website that compares the number of hits on the internet between a ninja and samurai to decide which one is cooler? :smalltongue:

Ya'll can keep your Naruto ninja magic, because you aren't getting anywhere near this guy. http://brightangel.nl/images/Samurai2.jpg

[Dihan]

Hmmm Taki or Mitsurugi... I know where my vote lies :smallwink:

[Woot Spitum]

Look behind you. You see those forty-seven ninjas? No? Well they definately see you.

Ninjas ftw!

[Bayushi Koji]

Normally this argument would tear me all up inside with confusion..... but after the day I've had dealing with incompetent minions of distinctly demonic Italien manufacturers..... and having seen that pretty, pretty picture of Toshiro Mifune.... well, Samurai!!!!! Plus less people tend to spell their name with an evil S at the end which should be their... so they must be more respected and your repsepcted if your cool, right?

[zeratul]

Samurais rock! Though I am partial to ninjas these two are worthy opponents! I would vote for both, but I cant, and Samurais needed it more.

[Koga]

You think you're clever ufo, but The Koga's high wisdom exemps him from your cheap tricks! You are a pirate! And you are trying to pit samurai against ninja when they are only differant in alignment instead of focusing on the pirates!

Samurai are Jedi...
Ninja are Sith...

http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/300W/fs7.deviantart.com/i/2005/157/a/6/Jedi_VS_Sith_by_aun61.jpg
Comrade... why are we figting? We should be combining our magics to dispose of pirates and thier consumerism madness, and then checking out girls who are young enough to be our daughters but we'll cleverly use the excuse we thought they were haflings...

You are right as always Koga! Workers of the world unite!

[Captain van der Decken]

Samurai. Why? They aren't ninjas.

[Da Beast]

^^Yeah, Samurais don't have magic.

And to all you Narutards (read: Moon Called) it's all about Shikamaru:smallcool:

[The Orange Zergling]

Samurai. Just the fuedal Japanese warrior concept is awsome.

[Vonriel]

Or. Definitely the or. Those guys are so sneaky that no one even knows that they're fighting. Top that, ninja!

[Abacab]

And to all you Narutards (read: Moon Called) it's all about Shikamaru:smallcool:

I agree. Who wants a dumb, powerful ninja when they can have an inhumanly smart ninja?


Uhh...I can't decide. I continue to think which anime has better fighters: Naruto or Rurouni Kenshin?

[Mr. Moon]

^^Yeah, Samurais don't have magic.

And to all you Narutards (read: Moon Called) it's all about Shikamaru:smallcool:

Hmm...

Shikimaru-kun... Slacker, but a genious...

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u1/Mocking-Bird/Shikamaru202.png

Versus Garaa-kun, sheer, unadaulturated sexieness...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e400/hyperlatin/garaa.jpg

...

Sorry, Garaa-kun wins.

[Da Beast]

How is the world's emoist turtle "sheer, unadaulturated sexieness?"

[Mr. Moon]

Look at the guy! He's the embodiement of Sexieness! *fangirl squeal*

[Da Beast]

Maybe it's because I'm a guy but I just don't see it.

[Mr. Moon]

Oh.

Right.

I knew that.

[Koga]

As someone who gets gaara in every naruto personality test The Koga can tell you he's neither unadultrerated sexyness nor he is emo.

Gaara actually has a decent excuse for being the brooding mess he is. And he gets better with time, eventualy becoming kazekage and actually being a softy.

Also he's not particularly goodlooking, when you take into consideration it's anime, so thus everybody is good-looking... Gaara just looks like a scrawney boy with redhair. Which is precisely what he is. He seems to look more developed during the second chaptor when he becomes kazekage. But all in all he's no better looking then anybody else.

And Oorchimaru is deffinitely not hot! That guy is just creepy. The Koga's suprised he didn't just offer Sasuke some candy and throw him in his van...

[Mr. Moon]

Gah! No! SPOILERS! *covers ears and begins to sing loudly*

[Da Beast]

And Oorchimaru is deffinitely not hot! That guy is just creepy. The Koga's suprised he didn't just offer Sasuke some candy and throw him in his van...

Yeah but when he pulls his face off and becomes a she it's pure hawtness.


Gah! No! SPOILERS! *covers ears and begins to sing loudly*

How far in the story are you?

[Mr. Moon]

Still fairly earily in the Garaa saga, I'm afraid. The only channel I get that plays it moves fairly slow.


And Oorchimaru is deffinitely not hot! That guy is just creepy. The Koga's suprised he didn't just offer Sasuke some candy and throw him in his van...


Infidel! Die! Grass Helbert: Death in One Cut!

[Da Beast]

Youtube has most of the episodes and the manga can be found for free here. (http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns)

[Mr. Moon]

True, but the TV version has much better quality, and the cliffhangers are actualy cliffhangers.

As for the manga... Meh. I actualy enjoy the fillers. The characters get develped more.

*prepares to be stabbed*

[Da Beast]

Does it show the episodes with the english dub or subtitles? I just can't watch the dubbed version because the voices are all so bad.

[Mr. Moon]

Heheh... Dubbed.

Eventualy, you get used to it, though. And it feels right, too. Besides, Jappanese Shino sounds a lot less creapy then Dubbed Shino. I like his creapy voice. It inhances the whole "Creapy bug guy" thing.

[Koga]

Yeah moon, check it out, cause The Koga is well known for spoilers. But he'll be nice and use the spoiler tags (now that he knows there are some..)

Which infact is more evil, because you know to want to see what's inside them. Tempting you.. calling you! >: D

And this one does pertain to Oorchimaru..
He manages to get Sasuke to join the sound village. Sasuke is "missing" but infact has just tooken Oorichimaru up on his offer. Saying to Naruto soemthing to the effect of "I know he's using me, but I don't care, as long as I get my revenge". His outfit also changes to a kimono robe and two swords like a samurai.

Oh and ofcourse one pertaining to Gaara.
Him and Lee become friends, and Gaara feels compelled to protect and help Lee whenever he can.

[Da Beast]

So your putting spoilers in for no reason other than to tempt people into looking at them? That's cruel.

[Mr. Moon]

Yes. Yes it is.

However, when you hang out with Rex, you learn not to read any text in side of spoilers. It's actualy a reflex, now.

[Samurai General]

*ahem*

*kill all people who vote ninja*
SAMURAI ARE THE WIN!!!!!

[Mr._Blinky]

I think this solves the question nicely. (http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=14&issue=5)

[Morrandir]

I voted samurai, but don't get me wrong.

I'm just picking the more agreeable of two things that I hate.

[Da Beast]

*kill all people who vote ninja*

I'm confused. Is this meant to be a command to the rest of the posters on this thread or a description to your actions? If it's the former than no and if it's the lat-SNEAK ATTACK BOOT TO THE HEAD!

[Mr_Saturn]

Ninja totally. I mean, the best ninja is:

Batman! Comon, just think about it. Batman fits the suit perfectly. The best part is, most people don't even know hes a ninja.

[Latronis]

Samurai

because there's nothing inherently cool about an oriental mercenary assassin that isn't true of any mercenary assassin.

[Ceska]

Heheh... Dubbed.

Eventualy, you get used to it, though. And it feels right, too. Besides, Jappanese Shino sounds a lot less creapy then Dubbed Shino. I like his creapy voice. It inhances the whole "Creapy bug guy" thing.
Uhm... You are highly masochistic, you know that. English dubbing is even worse than the German, and I'd rather kill myself than watch the German version. I mean Sasúke, how can someone misspronounce every damn name (as it is in the German version). Only funny thing, Sasuke's dub is the same as Zuko from Avatar, making me jokingly use every line of the other while watching it (if with friends I do, but then we don't really take it serious anymore).

Seriously, watch subs. So much better.

And I go with Samurai. Sure, Ninjas are cool and all, but Samurai just were real. And to go with anime reference: Samurai Champloo > Any Ninja anime.

[Destro_Yersul]

Hmm.

Ninja (http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/9/91/300px-RyuHayabusa.jpg) or Samurai (http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/751/751774/ninja-gaiden-sigma-20061219064539167.jpg)? Tough to say, really. I picked Ninja though, because Ninjas are badass.

[TheBoneSplitter]

If we all take into account that Batman himself is a ninja, then ninjas I vote for. I'm swayed.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Samurai have Toshiro Mifune on their side.

Toshiro Mifune inspired the Man With No Name in the Dollars Trilogy.

The Man With No Name > Everyone

So Samurai win.

[whitedog20]

Samauri - Funny hair, nice sword, funny pants

Ninja - normal hair, nice sword, can wear black, equal opportunities employer, has shurikens, can do all the neat moves

Ninja ftw !

Yes I agree wit' you, snicker ehheh funny pants hehehyou forgot to mention that the ninjas can move 62000 frames per second, That WAAAAY faster than any samurai could move.

www.askaninja.com has all the answers you need for ninjas, but dont watch mirriors its weird.

[Mr._Blinky]

Oh, and ninjas have Ryu Hayabusa. And he pwns EVERYTHING.

[Fade_the_Blade]

Out of all the Naruto characters the best has got to be....

http://trunkins2.homestead.com/files/KakashiBG.jpg

[0wca]

Samurai.

4 reasons:

1. Samurai are honorful, devote their lives to spiritual and physical development and serve their master with unquestioning devotion.

Ninjas on the other hand serve themselves, which makes them selfish, or if they serve others they are only motivated by 1 thing: money. That makes them selfish and greedy. Top of that they have no sense of ethics, and do not give their opponent the option of a fair fight, since they attack secretly. That makes them selfish,greedy and *******.

2. Samurai fight on open ground with clear visibility of the opponent, and thus giving them the option of a fair fight, and respecting their opponent.

Ninjas fight from the shadows. There is no honor in that, only mere reputation.

3. In open combat a Samurai would kill a ninja instantly.

Ninjas don't possess good fighting skill, therefore they attack from behind.

4. Anyone can use gadgets for killing purpuses. True skill comes from within, not from throwing a precise shot, since the target is too far away from you to do anything. Anyone can pull the trigger, not everyone can dodge the bullet.

[Shadow of the Sun]

The Man With No Name pwns Ryu Hayabusa 8 times a minute.

I think he is divinely assisted.

[Destro_Yersul]

The Man With No Name pwns Ryu Hayabusa 8 times a minute.

I think he is divinely assisted.

Well, except that Ryu can block bullets. With a Katana. He's just that awesome. Also, two words: Flying Swallow

[EmeraldRose]

Fight the establishment!! :smallamused:

[Lord Magtok]

I think he is divinely assisted.

Who? Clint Eastwood? I read the wiki article on him. It seems to suggest he's some kind of angel of death or something.

[Artemician]

Definitely Samurai.

Ninja's don't kill people, they sit in one spot for hours on end, enduring excruciating back pain and the mildew to spy on some random noble.

Samurai rush in and kill everyone.

No contest in my book.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Ok, so if Ryu Hayabusa pwns the Man With No Name can he pwn the the next step of inspiration?

Roland Deschain is nigh unbeatable. Ryu would get pwned 120 times a minute against Roland.

[Fade_the_Blade]

Damn you all!(no offense) Ninja are the BEST!!!!!!!!!!
NINJA FTW!!!!!!

[Shadow]

What I enjoy most is that my vote made it tied!
I'm not going to tell you which way I voted....

[Setra]

What I enjoy most is that my vote made it tied!
I'm not going to tell you which way I voted....
Ahh but I know, as my vote made it 37-36.

Muahahaha.

Seriously though, in a fight a Ninja would win (ie. Poison in the drink)

However my personal preferance is that Samurai are cooler, simply because of the whole Bushido thing.

[Destro_Yersul]

Ok, so if Ryu Hayabusa pwns the Man With No Name can he pwn the the next step of inspiration?

Roland Deschain is nigh unbeatable. Ryu would get pwned 120 times a minute against Roland.

I think that would probably end up as a draw. Niether is able to hit the other, and they end up fighting to a standstill.

[Lord Magtok]

Wasn't Vader's armor created with samurai armor as an inspiration or something? If so, samurai win due to the awesomeness of the dark side.

[Artemician]

Wasn't Vader's armor created with samurai armor as an inspiration or something? If so, samurai win due to the awesomeness of the dark side.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l271/artemician/61250873_66868f218f.jpg

Join the Dark Side. We have cookies.

[zeratul]

^^Yeah, Samurais don't have magic.

And to all you Narutards (read: Moon Called) it's all about Shikamaru:smallcool:

Shikimaru, and shino. They are the cool, smart ones.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Blade of the Immortal>Naruto.

Samurai win.

[Woot Spitum]

Wasn't Vader's armor created with samurai armor as an inspiration or something? If so, samurai win due to the awesomeness of the dark side.

No. Darth Vader was a ninja.

Actually, the same people could be samurai by day and ninja by night.

[NinjaCat]

Ninja ftw!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCHfjrKA1CI

Youtube is law!

[EvilElitest]

I agree. Who wants a dumb, powerful ninja when they can have an inhumanly smart ninja?


Uhh...I can't decide. I continue to think which anime has better fighters: Naruto or Rurouni Kenshin?

Well considering how stupied all the Narutu characters all, i give it to Kenshin. Smart main character vs. fuking dumb one
from,
EE

[Woot Spitum]

Why does everyone bring up Naruto? He's not a ninja. Why? Let's review:

Ninja wear black and cover their faces. Naruto wears orange and lacks a mask.

Ninja are silent and invisible. Naruto is loud and impossible to overlook.

Ninja kill dozens of people before their first birthday. Naruto, as far as I know, hasn't killed anyone.

Naruto is like Squirrel Girl, he wins because of massive plot protection. He's more like a wizard than a ninja. Albeit, a dumb wizard with plot protection. He is possibly the least ninjalike character in existence.

[Supagoof]

A ninja is nothing more then a Samarai who has no honor.

Go Samurai!

Honestly, the only way to solve this is Seppeku. You go first.

[Gitman00]

Ninja are silent and invisible. Naruto is loud and impossible to overlook.

Funny thing about that "art of invisibility". Japan is, like, the LAND of invisibility. Check it out: The Samurai is standing guard, and the mist comes up to his chest. So, the Ninja kneels. Now he's invisible. He throws shurikens at the samurai, which actually don't do much damage. If the Ninja knows his business, the shurikens slash the Samurai's flesh and glance off into the darkness and mist. But the Samurai can't see what's going on, so he gets freaked out by the "invisible swordsmen". The real damage done is to the Samurai's morale.

[Supagoof]

Funny thing about that "art of invisibility". Japan is, like, the LAND of invisibility. Check it out: The Samurai is standing guard, and the mist comes up to his chest. So, the Ninja kneels. Now he's invisible. He throws shurikens at the samurai, which actually don't do much damage. If the Ninja knows his business, the shurikens slash the Samurai's flesh and glance off into the darkness and mist. But the Samurai can't see what's going on, so he gets freaked out by the "invisible swordsmen". The real damage done is to the Samurai's morale.

And that is why Ninja's have no honor. They are cowards, hiding behind clouds of smoke and mist. Not that it's not cool, being stealthy, but in that manner anyone with a sniper rifle hidden in the trees has the same advantage as the ninja. Courage is standing up to your opponent, face to face, so they know it's you attacking and you know it's them.

Plus, you assume that the Samarai would get freaked out. That they wouldn't expect something like this from Ninja's. I just don't see that happening, but then that's my assumption. And you know what they say about assumptions....

Put any Ninja against any Samarai in a swordfight, and I guarantee you the Samarai is the one walking away. Why? Because the time a Ninja would spend practicing being sneaky is the time a Samarai would hone the skills of a warrior.

In a way, you could equate the Samarai to the Spartan's in 300. :smallamused:

[Gitman00]

And that is why Ninja's have no honor. They are cowards, hiding behind clouds of smoke and mist. Not that it's not cool, being stealthy, but in that manner anyone with a sniper rifle hidden in the trees has the same advantage as the ninja. Courage is standing up to your opponent, face to face, so they know it's you attacking and you know it's them.

Plus, you assume that the Samarai would get freaked out. That they wouldn't expect something like this from Ninja's. I just don't see that happening, but then that's my assumption. And you know what they say about assumptions....

Put any Ninja against any Samarai in a swordfight, and I guarantee you the Samarai is the one walking away. Why? Because the time a Ninja would spend practicing being sneaky is the time a Samarai would hone the skills of a warrior.

In a way, you could equate the Samarai to the Spartan's in 300. :smallamused:

Well, maybe "freaked out" was a bit of an exaggeration. "Unnerved" would probably be better.

Setting aside the historical inaccuracies of The Last Samurai, I did like one line that Algren had (quoting from memory, so I don't know if it's word for word): "From dawn until dusk these people dedicate themselves to the perfection of whatever they do."

[Iron_Mouse]

Well, what is true for pirates is probably also true for samurai.

When you are a samurai, and you are great at that job, you become famous. Even people who live centuries after you died remember your name.

When you are a ninja, no one knows you and no one remembers you, even when you are the greatest ninja that ever lived. Oh, look! I'm a ninja, I totally kick ass - and no one actually cares! People in a few years will actually even doubt that I ever existed! Wheee!

Seriously, when I would be really, really good at something I actually devoted my *entire life* to, then I want at least get some credit for that.


And I also prefer being honorful to being a coward, but maybe that's just me.

[Koga]

Who cares about honor? When you shake the samurai in his little booties making him think "Jesus, that could be my kid who gets cut with shuriken!" and he knows you're just sociopathic enough to do it just to prove a point.

We ninja feed on your pain and tears.

[Samurai Iesu]

Well, as my name might suggest, I am a samurai nut:smallamused: , and from my point of view, Woot Spitum and Supagoof are the only ones who are making any sense. Those who don't care about honor or what is right or wrong are truely condemning themselves inside. That kind of selfish lack of consideration for others will eat away at anyone from the inside and will hurt anyone who comes in contact with them. But even these were not the views of the ninjas. Ninjas were normally used for secret attacks and assassinations. They often used a wide varriety of other varrious deadly weapons instead of devoting themselves to mastering any one skill, like samurai. Ninjas had no code of honor, which was the main courner stone of a samurai's life, and were one of the things that made them so reviered and respected. However the samurai code of honor was the aspect that held them back from modernizing, and eventually lead to their own dimise.

As far is ninjas, I DON'T KNOW WHY EVERYONE BASES ALL OF THEIR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THEM ON NARUTO!!!!!! I mean honestly, it's a cartoon. There is no way in the world that any of that could be true! If you're gonna make an arguement, put a little effort into your knowledge about the subject first.:smallfurious: :smalltongue: (FYI I got nothing against Naruto, except the main character. MAN THAT GUY IS ANNOYING!!!)

[Latronis]

Well, maybe "freaked out" was a bit of an exaggeration. "Unnerved" would probably be better.

Setting aside the historical inaccuracies of The Last Samurai, I did like one line that Algren had (quoting from memory, so I don't know if it's word for word): "From dawn until dusk these people dedicate themselves to the perfection of whatever they do."


By historically inaccurate im sure you mean:

hey this is a cool story

yeah lets set it in a completely different country!

samurai = badass!

blegh

[Samurai Iesu]

I have no idea what you are talking about by inaccuracies. It may not have actually happened like that, but the movie was actually based on the samurai rebellion back in the day. As far as the general story goes it didn't happen that way, but everything else is for the most part completely historically accurate.

[0wca]

Well, as my name might suggest, I am a samurai nut:smallamused: , and from my point of view, Woot Spitum and Supagoof are the only ones who are making any sense. Those who don't care about honor or what is right or wrong are truely condemning themselves inside. That kind of selfish lack of consideration for others will eat away at anyone from the inside and will hurt anyone who comes in contact with them. But even these were not the views of the ninjas. Ninjas were normally used for secret attacks and assassinations. They often used a wide varriety of other varrious deadly weapons instead of devoting themselves to mastering any one skill, like samurai. Ninjas had no code of honor, which was the main courner stone of a samurai's life, and were one of the things that made them so reviered and respected. However the samurai code of honor was the aspect that held them back from modernizing, and eventually lead to their own dimise.

As far is ninjas, I DON'T KNOW WHY EVERYONE BASES ALL OF THEIR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THEM ON NARUTO!!!!!! I mean honestly, it's a cartoon. There is no way in the world that any of that could be true! If you're gonna make an arguement, put a little effort into your knowledge about the subject first.:smallfurious: :smalltongue: (FYI I got nothing against Naruto, except the main character. MAN THAT GUY IS ANNOYING!!!)

My point exactly.

[Samurai Iesu]

Awesome!!! Another samurai guy! XD I'm glad you agree with me dude.

[0wca]

We must bring back feudal Japan! :smallcool:

[Koga]

Isn't this bassicaly the pinnacle of samurai in fiction?
http://www.evolvedgames.com/images/cover-dreddA.jpg


And if it is The Koga will join the samurai side, Judge Dredd is friggin badass. A judge is trained for fifteen years of sheer toture to become more of a machine then a man. Not all judges think alike, but they are created via geneitic engineering to best optimize thier body and minds by mixing and matching differant dna compounds. Almost like..

"DNA structure X mixed with Y isn't so good, but if we put X in with B we get an awesome dredd!"

[Aramil Liadon]

I have no idea how to make links.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=khS4zlinxk0
The ninja will tell you what happens to those who think samurai are better.
Hint: He thinks you're stupid.

[Call_me_Fate]

I have gotten a mother's day card for my mom on the lines of this topic. On the cover there is a small boy saying that there are nunjas coming ot get him. His mother is saying that it is a good thing they invited the samurai over for dinner.

I was reminded of this, so I had to post.

Because I assume Hallmark is the undisputed authority on all things martial arts, I have to vote samurai, otherwise why would they invite one over to dinner?

[Supagoof]

*Ponders where he can get that card since Mother's day is coming up...*

While we're at it, why not point out the fact that the ninja name is also tainted by adolescent shell wearing mutants living in the sewers of New York who received their training from a rat.

Though thinking about that premise for a bit, are the TMNT more Ninja or more Samurai?

They fight with honor,
They specialize in a certain weapon each,
Not terribly well hidden like ninja are supposed to be,
If Samarai, wouldn't that make the foot more representative of the ninjai?

Hmmm, adds this to pondering.

Oh, Samarai Champloo > Naruto in the whole basing upon cartoon created figures.

[Telonius]

Okay, so on the Ninja side, we have Storm Shadow, Snake Eyes, All four Ninja Turtles, a decent Rogue replacement class, and Ryu Hyabusa. For Samurai, we have Samurai Jack, the worst D&D class in existence, and a totally lame superhero wearing a green bikini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai_%28superhero%29). Despite Samurai Jack's awesomeness, I have to go with Ninja.

[Koga]

What about Zorro? It's become clear to The Koga that the definition of pirate and ninja are more then just what people expect, samurai ultimately become pirates in the end. (As they were the first opposing enemy of the ninja, or rather ninja were the first opposing enemy of the samurai)

http://oni-kage572.blog.jeuxvideo.com/images/mn/1123488625.jpg
Maniac who can wield three swords at one time?!

And this guy has done some impressive crap, he's beaten meta-humans before that were built like human sharks, he's even "cut through steel".

[blademaster42]

Okay, samurai people. You bring up some interesting points. However, you are ignoring all sorts of crap.

1. Samurai are bound to a lord. That's a serious restriction that ninjas will never have. Ninjas are free to go where they want and do what they want. eat that.

2. Ninjas aren't only trained with shuriken and stealth, they are taught swordplay as well. And, they use ancient techniques tht help with precognition to make it easier for them to dodge.

3. Batman is definitely a ninja and he whoops more butt then anyone. Zorro is also [I]kind of[I] a ninja, but not overwhelmingly so. Taki is just a chick in tight spandex and mitsurugi is ronin, so he don't count.

4. Ninjas do have honor. Not a lot, but some. For instance, once they take a contract, they won't accept bribes from the poor sap.

5. I am a ninja. :smallbiggrin:

Therefore, ninjas win

[Deimos]

Ninja,:belkar:
Obviously

[Latronis]

Okay, samurai people. You bring up some interesting points. However, you are ignoring all sorts of crap.

1. Samurai are bound to a lord. That's a serious restriction that ninjas will never have. Ninjas are free to go where they want and do what they want. eat that.

The lords also are samurai

Ninja arn't free to go anywhere or do anything unless the lord.. (read: a samurai) pays them too.

[Koga]

1. Samurai are bound to a lord. That's a serious restriction that ninjas will never have. Ninjas are free to go where they want and do what they want. eat that.
A Lord has it's ups and downs. True undieng loyalty can be a burden, but in the end you have civil diplomacy that cannot be rivaled. Being a soldier to The Emperor pretty much garantees you free stays at the holiday inn, slashed prices on goods and services, and the cooperation and trust of everyone in the land. A ninja could not publicaly kill you without causing a riot, not is he or she entitled to any of your bennefits.

And a ninja still has to respect his clients. Ninja are assassins. Therefore if they want to get payed they do have to show atleast a neutral amount of repsect for those that hire them...


2. Ninjas aren't only trained with shuriken and stealth, they are taught swordplay as well. And, they use ancient techniques tht help with precognition to make it easier for them to dodge.
Samurai aren't just Japanease knights y'know.. they were taught many weapons..

Swordplay
Archery
Mounted Combat
Even some biological warfare, they invented the first nerve gas by using hotbell peppers and wrapping them in a bag like substance and shooting them like slingshots!


3. Batman is definitely a ninja and he whoops more butt then anyone. Zorro is also [I]kind of[I] a ninja, but not overwhelmingly so. Taki is just a chick in tight spandex and mitsurugi is ronin, so he don't count.
Batman may be ninja but Batman also gets the power of jobbing. (Wolverine lives off of it) Jobbing is the comicbook ability to beat someone way out of your league simply by plot device.

Zorro is a pirate through and through. A skirmish heavy, Spainsh pirate. Perhaps a bit more intelligent and stealthy then most pirates, but a pirate none the less.


4. Ninjas do have honor. Not a lot, but some. For instance, once they take a contract, they won't accept bribes from the poor sap.
Because ninja are not stupid, they can't afford to lose the trust of thier clients or it could mean death (or starvation). Ninja follow the rule of what best serves them and them alone.



The Koga's not trying to say samurai are better then ninja, but there's alot more to the argument then simply "samurai are big dumb doody heads who follow strict codes of honor"


That's how people managed to ruin the totally awesome D&D class the paladin.

[Supagoof]

Okay, so on the Ninja side, we have Storm Shadow, Snake Eyes, All four Ninja Turtles, a decent Rogue replacement class, and Ryu Hyabusa. For Samurai, we have Samurai Jack, the worst D&D class in existence, and a totally lame superhero wearing a green bikini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai_%28superhero%29). Despite Samurai Jack's awesomeness, I have to go with Ninja.

Go rent "American Ninja" then come back with an example of a Samurai whose more lame then that.

You forgot to add Immature Radiactive Samurai Slugs to the Samurai list. (See WB Tiny Toons....)

After thinkg, I will argue that the turtles are not Ninja's, but actually mis-labled Samarai.

Batman is definitely a Ninja - he's in it for himself (or rather avenging his parents death).....but Superman is a Samarai, he could fly away, but his honor keeps him protecting Earth :smalltongue: .

[Koga]

http://warchild13.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/Captain%20America_-tm.jpg
Another Samurai!


America at it's very core is samurai!
(Note: We will exclude Cap as of lately with the civil war story arc, because those stupid writers ruined several huge characters by tottaly molesting thier personalities and turning them into something they weren't. Cap isn't a fascist, but he would deffinitely have been pro-registration had he been written correctly. He let himself be a gunnie pig to science, you think he wouldn't see the upsides to this bill?!)

[Samurai Iesu]

All good points Koga, but let me add that there are also rouge samurai, who can do whatever they want, but not much in the payment cattagory. And Samurai concentraited their skills on a single weapon, and focussing all your energy onto a smaller cattagory instead of trying to master countless weapons, like ninjas, always brings better results.:smallcool:

All hail the SAMURAI!!! :smallbiggrin:

And the reason most of the good characters are ninjas and not samurai is because not only are ninjas just better known because they are so common, but ninja is a much shorter name than samurai, giving it better commercial value. Also, because a ninja can use a bigger assortment of weapons, you could make any japanese fighting character and call him a ninja. It's just not a very exclusive field.:smallamused:

[Vazzaroth]

I prefer ninjas, but the choice is harder with this question than the Pirates and ninjas one.

Damn you pirates! :smallmad:

Edit: I see superheros came up. Let me submit my favorite ninja-like one, Dead Pool (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadpool_%28comics%29)

[Samurai Iesu]

Pirates are just all around bad guys. I'd never vote for them, but could you give a reason you vote ninja?:smallconfused:

[Latronis]

You know what's awesome?

all these Ninja vs polls and ninja didn't win once

[Samurai Iesu]

LOL! I never noticed that but yeah!:smallbiggrin:

[ufo]

You know what's awesome?

all these Ninja vs polls and ninja didn't win once

Blasphemy!


...there are also rouge samurai, who can do whatever...

Oh yeah, the rouge samurai. Crazy guy that throws make-up stuff at you!

But the real danger lies with the rogue samurai, though!

[Dallas-Dakota]

ninjas!

part of night, blend with the shadow, katana as fast as the wind!

[Samurai Iesu]

And souls as shallow as a puddle.:smallamused:
Their unfocussed abilities clouds their minds. In every instance, unless the ninja is pulling a totally dishonorable assassination sneak attack, a samurai can take out many ninjas before they get him.:smallamused:

[Setra]

In every instance, unless the ninja is pulling a totally dishonorable assassination sneak attack, a samurai can take out many ninjas before they get him.:smallamused:
The problem is .. 95% of Ninja would use that attack.

However Samurai are still cooler.

[BelkarIsAGod]

NINJAHHHHH!!!!!!!:biggrin:

Nija's rule!!!!!
All they would need to do is slip some poison in the samurai's meal and-:xykon:

Hehehe.
even if ninja's couldn't beat samurais, they would still be WAY cooler.

Belkar for life!:belkar:

[Samurai Iesu]

Oh you poor dark evil soul. Do you see not ther error of your dishonorable ways? ******* SNEAK ATTACKS ARE SOOO ******* RETARTED!!!!!!!! I mean sure they get their job done, but with now style, honor, or skill! Any moron can poison someone or slit their throught behind their back. It's just a sucker punch!!! It's as bad as what those ******* Terrorists did on that fateful day of September 11th. *plays patriotic music* And I refuse to dishonor myself, and my country by supporting the same kind of evil that has harmed us so brutally and heartlessly! WHO'S WITH ME?!?!?!?!?!?!?!:smalltongue:

[zeratul]

Oh you poor dark evil soul. Do you see not ther error of your dishonorable ways? ******* SNEAK ATTACKS ARE SOOO ******* RETARTED!!!!!!!! I mean sure they get their job done, but with now style, honor, or skill! Any moron can poison someone or slit their throught behind their back. It's just a sucker punch!!! It's as bad as what those ******* Terrorists did on that fateful day of September 11th. *plays patriotic music* And I refuse to dishonor myself, and my country by supporting the same kind of evil that has harmed us so brutally and heartlessly! WHO'S WITH ME?!?!?!?!?!?!?!:smalltongue:

((Hey dude might wanna cut down on the swearing, and use of the word retarted, also try to avoid posting on threads older than six weeks, which are on page three, or further back.))

[Apex]

Although ninja's (http://http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Ninja) have an awesome entry about them, samurai have my vote. They just look so much more badass in armour than some wispy little Japanese man floating around.

[Setra]

Oh you poor dark evil soul. Do you see not ther error of your dishonorable ways? ******* SNEAK ATTACKS ARE SOOO ******* RETARTED!!!!!!!! I mean sure they get their job done, but with now style, honor, or skill! Any moron can poison someone or slit their throught behind their back. It's just a sucker punch!!! It's as bad as what those ******* Terrorists did on that fateful day of September 11th. *plays patriotic music* And I refuse to dishonor myself, and my country by supporting the same kind of evil that has harmed us so brutally and heartlessly! WHO'S WITH ME?!?!?!?!?!?!?!:smalltongue:
Uh... What the heck are you trying to say?

Whatever it is, you're giving your namesake a bad name.

[phantomhermit]

i plotted out a fight between a medium level samurai and a medium level ninja [dnd] the samurai never saw it coming. he would put up a great fight against someone without run by shot and a rediculous hide check [ninjas get their extra damage as long as their target is flat footed and within thirty feet. yay short bow]. and even if the ninja got caught, he can still do his ninja thing [i forget the name] to get a sneak attack every round. now toe to toe, the samurai outdamages the ninja because of the very nice two weapon fighting feats inherent to his class and the fact that he uses a bastard sword and shortsword [katana and wakizashi] as weapons just means its gonna be pretty messy for the ninja if he goes toe to toe. but that isnt what ninjas do. now, this is all in archetypal dnd setup with allowances for cultural stigma. i vote ninja, because he is sneaky and knows how to hit where it hurts. every round. without flanking.

[Samurai Iesu]

Srry if I was confusing some people, that post I just decided to go on a rant about nothing in relation to anything. But back on topic, the only reason a ninja could ever beat a samurai is because they sneak up on them and stab them when they aren't looking or something. Where's the honor in that? How is that cool??? Any coward can hit someone with their back turned. I mean honestly.:smallconfused: Also the ninjas were cheaper to hire than samurai. Samurai were the real threat on the battlefield. Ninjas were only hired for mainly assassinations and sneak attacks, and although they are essential, individually I find them dishonorable and weak cowards. Also in comparing their codes of honor, the samurai lived and died by their set code of honor. The ninjas basicly made up their own and decided if they wanted to live by it or not, only further showing the ninja's lack of commitment and honor. I'm not saying ninjas are just plain bad, but I deffinutely preffer samurai, and I can't see how every single poll about samurai vs ninja, ninjas are winning. Perhaps it's because only a few know who the samurai truely were. Honestly it's easy to get stuff about ninjas, I had to do a lot of research to get what I know about samurai.

And for sxamples of great TV samurai:
The Last Samurai
Samurai 7
(I've never seen but it looks cool for all the following)
Samurai Champloo
Samurai X
Samurai Deeper Kyo
Afro Samurai

The list goes on. Just a little comment on all the listings of how there are cooler ninjas on TV than samurai.:smallamused:

[Deckmaster]

Samurai or Ninja...

It's a tough one.

Wait. Hiro is kind of a Samurai, isn't he?

Samurai! Yatta!

[Artemician]

Srry if I was confusing some people, that post I just decided to go on a rant about nothing in relation to anything. But back on topic, the only reason a ninja could ever beat a samurai is because they sneak up on them and stab them when they aren't looking or something. Where's the honor in that? How is that cool??? Any coward can hit someone with their back turned. I mean honestly.:smallconfused: Also the ninjas were cheaper to hire than samurai. Samurai were the real threat on the battlefield. Ninjas were only hired for mainly assassinations and sneak attacks, and although they are essential, individually I find them dishonorable and weak cowards. Also in comparing their codes of honor, the samurai lived and died by their set code of honor. The ninjas basicly made up their own and decided if they wanted to live by it or not, only further showing the ninja's lack of commitment and honor. I'm not saying ninjas are just plain bad, but I deffinutely preffer samurai, and I can't see how every single poll about samurai vs ninja, ninjas are winning. Perhaps it's because only a few know who the samurai truely were. Honestly it's easy to get stuff about ninjas, I had to do a lot of research to get what I know about samurai.


It is true that Samurai stick by their honour code. However, I can also see when sometimes it is a bad thing. Sometimes History doesn't need shepherds, it needs butchers :smallamused: . Also, individually Samurai are useless. They are soldiers, and a single soldier by his lonesome is soon a very dead soldier. It seems that you dislike Ninja for the same reasons why some people dislike crossbowmen: that a relatively weak person could take out a Knight, who had a lifetime of training. Fair'nuff.

However, I must respectfully disagree with some of your points. For one: it is not as easy as you make it out to be to *sneak up on someone and stab them when they aren't looking*. In fact, I could reverse the statement, and say that the only way Samurai could ever beat someone is to hit them really hard, as opposed to the Ninja, who kills people stronger than him with skill and finesse.

Also, you say that it is easy to find information about Ninja, as opposed to Samurai. On the contrary, Samurai had a clearly defined logical function in Japanese society, they were Knights, Feudal Lords, and the ruling class. Their role was to follow the Emperor's orders, obey the code of Bushido, and to rule over the peasants. However, the role of the Ninja is a muddied mess, and noone seems to know if they were assassins, spies, skilled commoners, or specially trained members of the Samurai Caste.



And for sxamples of great TV samurai:
The Last Samurai
Samurai 7
(I've never seen but it looks cool for all the following)
Samurai Champloo
Samurai X
Samurai Deeper Kyo
Afro Samurai

The list goes on. Just a little comment on all the listings of how there are cooler ninjas on TV than samurai.:smallamused:


No. Just no. An anime representation is in no way an accurate representation of a Samurai. Real Samurai were not in possession of Vibro-katanas, which could cut through spaceship hulls. Neither did real samurai fight to a hip-hop tune. Just as I won't bring up Naruto and other retarded things like that when talking about ninjas, you should not bring up horribly caricatured and misrepresented Samurai from Popular culture.

*deepbreath*

Plus, half of the Samurai from your list don't even follow your concept of what a Samurai is. The representation of the Civil War following the Meiji Restoration in Last Samurai is horribly inaccurate. Samurai were men of status and authority, they would not have "made a last stand against the Imperial Army", they would have had an army of their own. Kenshin is an assassin. He follows no code of conduct, he simply kills, without thought and without mercy. Kanbei is by no definition an honourable person. And as for the people from Samurai Champloo, lets just say that you don't watch an anime which mixes beatdancing with Feudal Japan for its historical accuracy, okay?

[Supagoof]

No. Just no. An anime representation is in no way an accurate representation of a Samurai. Real Samurai were not in possession of Vibro-katanas, which could cut through spaceship hulls. Neither did real samurai fight to a hip-hop tune. Just as I won't bring up Naruto and other retarded things like that when talking about ninjas, you should not bring up horribly caricatured and misrepresented Samurai from Popular culture.

*deepbreath*

Plus, half of the Samurai from your list don't even follow your concept of what a Samurai is. The representation of the Civil War following the Meiji Restoration in Last Samurai is horribly inaccurate. Samurai were men of status and authority, they would not have "made a last stand against the Imperial Army", they would have had an army of their own. Kenshin is an assassin. He follows no code of conduct, he simply kills, without thought and without mercy. Kanbei is by no definition an honourable person. And as for the people from Samurai Champloo, lets just say that you don't watch an anime which mixes beatdancing with Feudal Japan for its historical accuracy, okay?

I don't believe anyone was saying that the anime of either Ninja or Samurai was accurate, but they are using it to provide validity in the statement that such a thing is cooler.

Like art. Nobody would agree that the paintings on the ceiling of the Sistine chapel are in fact accurate snapshots of heaven and the afterlife, but they would agree that beauty depicted on the paintings is heavenly and a masterpiece of art. Much in the same way all the pop references listed so far to ninja and samarai are cool, not accurate, pending on ones point of view. It is a much broader sense of looking at why each of us feels whether ninja or samurai is cooler. Not historically accurate by any means, but a valid base on which to derive our opinions at

In my opinion, Samurai Champloo is just plain cool (Hip hop + swordplay = c'mon!) and thus another reason for my personal weighing of Ninja vs. Samurai on the scales is tilted towards the Samurai.

Then again, I like Cowboy Bebop for it's fusion of Jazz and Space Cowboys, but that's just me. :smallwink:

[0wca]

It is true that Samurai stick by their honour code. However, I can also see when sometimes it is a bad thing. Sometimes History doesn't need shepherds, it needs butchers :smallamused: . Also, individually Samurai are useless. They are soldiers, and a single soldier by his lonesome is soon a very dead soldier.

Correction: Every single samurai is his own army. Every single one of them trained their whole lifetime in the way of the sword (Bushido) and were (in my opinion) the best close combat sword fighters that ever walked this earth. Their sole purpuse for the last 400 years was war. They trained in sole as well as multi-combat and were more than capable of defending themselves from an attack of multiple opponents. If you are reffering to their defence against rifles and other ranged weapons, then yes.. it would kill them (it was eventually the influence of American and European guns that were brought to Japan that ended the age of samurai), but if you are reffering to close combat - each samurai would kill a lot of soldiers on his own. Their power was not in numbers, but in skill.



No. Just no. An anime representation is in no way an accurate representation of a Samurai. Real Samurai were not in possession of Vibro-katanas, which could cut through spaceship hulls. Neither did real samurai fight to a hip-hop tune. Just as I won't bring up Naruto and other retarded things like that when talking about ninjas, you should not bring up horribly caricatured and misrepresented Samurai from Popular culture.

*deepbreath*

Plus, half of the Samurai from your list don't even follow your concept of what a Samurai is. The representation of the Civil War following the Meiji Restoration in Last Samurai is horribly inaccurate. Samurai were men of status and authority, they would not have "made a last stand against the Imperial Army", they would have had an army of their own. Kenshin is an assassin. He follows no code of conduct, he simply kills, without thought and without mercy. Kanbei is by no definition an honourable person. And as for the people from Samurai Champloo, lets just say that you don't watch an anime which mixes beatdancing with Feudal Japan for its historical accuracy, okay?

Oh and I think Iesu was reffering to what other people in this topic were talking about. I think that half of this topic is based on anime samurai/ninjas, which I agree has no real picture of what a real samurai/ninja is.

[Artemician]

Correction: Every single samurai is his own army. Every single one of them trained their whole lifetime in the way of the sword (Bushido) and were (in my opinion) the best close combat sword fighters that ever walked this earth. Their sole purpuse for the last 400 years was war. They trained in sole as well as multi-combat and were more than capable of defending themselves from an attack of multiple opponents. If you are reffering to their defence against rifles and other ranged weapons, then yes.. it would kill them (it was eventually the influence of American and European guns that were brought to Japan that ended the age of samurai), but if you are reffering to close combat - each samurai would kill a lot of soldiers on his own. Their power was not in numbers, but in skill.


No matter how skilled you are, if you are outnumbered and surrounded, you are soon dead. That's the crude reality of life. That is why you strive not to get yourself put into such a situation. A good commander (which Samurai were) would know that.

Also, samurai did not use the Katana in open field combat. They preferred to use weapons that could be used from horseback, such as the Yari (lance) and the Yumi (longbow).



Oh and I think Iesu was reffering to what other people in this topic were talking about. I think that half of this topic is based on anime samurai/ninjas, which I agree has no real picture of what a real samurai/ninja is.

Anime Samurai/Ninja bear completely no resemblance to their namesakes. I refuse to debate about them:smallannoyed: .

[I'm da Rogue!]

Pirates are much cooler that ninjas, but now we have to deal with the common enemy: samurai
Go!Ninja GO!
rogue greetings
*sneak attack*

[Vhaidara]

One more vote and it's a tie! Ninjas, Ninjas!

[Dhavaer]

Ninja.
A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn.

[bythethroat]

Ninja. Easy. While the samurai is writing lame poetry on a piece of rice paper during a tea ceremony, or winding down in the sauna after a long day of slicing unarmed peasants whose mules dropped a load in his path or something, the ninja disguised as a monk sneaks up behind him and garrotes him with some prayer beads. It's not even fair.

A gurkha would massacre them both, though.

[Skippy]

Samurai all the way. Bushido is a way of life. Ninjas are all sneaky and treacherous...

[I'm da Rogue!]

Ninja.
A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn.

I'm in love with you.:smallredface:

[Xuincherguixe]

Ninja. Historically and Fiction :P

Both have the super death machine thing going, but in my opinion Ninjas have a lot more style. But that's just my personal opinion.

[Dhavaer]

I'm in love with you.:smallredface:

Awesome. I'm sure there used to be a thread for that...

[Samurai Iesu]

I totally agree with Owca. Samurai aren't just soldiers. Each one is a one man army who is completely devoted to everything they do. They live by the sword. And unlike ninjas, they don't do stupid sneak attacks in the dark. I guess it all boils down to personal oppionion. If you care about honor you choose samurai. And if you like sneak attacks you choose ninjas. People in the middle choose an idealistic form of ninja or rogue samurai. I personally am all about the deep culture and honor. But there is no arguing the importance of ninjas. While samurai were the ultimate field fighters of Japan and the strongest in any one-o-one combat. But in numbers and sneak attacks, ninjas were the essential sneaky dudes that all the samurai lords needed. They actually had a lot in common, but lived a very different life on the battlefield. Now, the more ninjas you have, the stronger. If you have about 5-1 samurai. If you have 1 samurai to 3 ninjas. Samurai has a 50/50 chance. If you have an army of 20 samurai vs 20 ninjas, they are about even. The samurai would kill everything in their path while the ninjas would get behind the samurai and kill them from behind. All in all I think there would be one ninja left standing, but ninjas cost only slightly less than samurai, and samurai often commanded many more infantry. No they were not just foot soldiers. So that is why they didn't use ninjas on the battle-field like samurai, they were used for ambushes, their primary function.

Srry this is so long. If you read this far or just skimmed ahead, to sum it up. Ninjas suck in one-on-one and battlefield. Ninjas good at ambush. All depends on your personal prefference which is batter.

[Dib]

I said Ninja... I like the sneaky... I also like the choppy... and honour... and armour... but sneaky! Slide up behind like leaf and stabbity like stabby thing!! and they wear black :P

[Samurai Iesu]

I still honestly don't see how anyone can like the sneakyness thing. It just makes fighting no fun. I'm not saying they're impractical, I just think the idea sucks.:smallannoyed:

[Wojiz]

I still honestly don't see how anyone can like the sneakyness thing. It just makes fighting no fun. I'm not saying they're impractical, I just think the idea sucks.:smallannoyed:

Clearly, you've never played Splinter Cell, Thief or Metal Gear.

[Samurai General]

No, he hasen't. Ninja can be hardcore.

[Armads]

Samurai all the way. Bushido is a way of life. Ninjas are all sneaky and treacherous...

But sneaking around and poking people to death with a pointy stick unseen is much more effective than running around with a sword trying to cut down someone who can probably outrun you anyway due to him not wearing heavy armor.

[Artemician]

But sneaking around and poking people to death with a pointy stick unseen is much more effective than running around with a sword trying to cut down someone who can probably outrun you anyway due to him not wearing heavy armor.

Samurai armour is optimized for horseback combat, trying to run around in it is kinda hard, yea.

Which is why you draw your bow and shoot him.

[Cyborg Pirate]

Samurai. Cause everyone who's dug into ninja history realizes that early ninja were nothing other then samurai in disguise. :smallwink:


PS: the lack of good information in this thread is almost terrifying

[Xuincherguixe]

Samurai. Cause everyone who's dug into ninja history realizes that early ninja were nothing other then samurai in disguise. :smallwink:


PS: the lack of good information in this thread is almost terrifying

I was kind of aware of that as is, but Ninja seemed to become another sort of 'thing'. Especially when you get into the myths.

[Emperor Ing]

Ninjas:
PROS: Stealth, Agility, lethal efficiency, neutral in conflicts, Trained Assassins
CONS: considered civilians

Samurais:
PROS: Large Katanas, Trained Warriors, Armor?
CONS: Whats it called when a samurai survives after losing a battle, and they kill themselves?

I cant think of much more, but the ninjas have more pros, so ninjas win, not to mention Chuck Norris is a ninja!

[Cyborg Pirate]

I was kind of aware of that as is, but Ninja seemed to become another sort of 'thing'. Especially when you get into the myths.

Well, ofcourse when you get into the myths, especially the ones created by the ones they are about themselves, ofcourse things become a bit... different:




Ninjas:
PROS: Stealth, Agility, lethal efficiency, neutral in conflicts, Trained Assassins
CONS: considered civilians

Samurais:
PROS: Large Katanas, Trained Warriors, Armor?
CONS: Whats it called when a samurai survives after losing a battle, and they kill themselves?

I cant think of much more, but the ninjas have more pros, so ninjas win, not to mention Chuck Norris is a ninja!


If we do this by the myths, we gets:


Ninja
PROs: Illusionistic magic, Supernatural stealth, Lethal efficiency, Neutral in conflicts, Trained assasins.
CONs: Subject to ritual suicide to Amida Buddah after a succesfull mission to ensure absolute secrecy, Dead if caught in a fair fight.

Samurai
PROs: Can cut rocks with swords, Can blast through several massive trees with a single arrow, Can deflect an army's worth of arrows with a single naginata, Trained warriors, Armour.
CONs: Subject to ritual suicide upon death of lord or face exile.

[I'm da Rogue!]

...not to mention Chuck Norris is a ninja!

Chuck Norris is not a ninja.
Ninjas are Chuck Norris.

[Samurai Iesu]

The ritual suicide (Sepuku or Harakiri) can be considered a pro or con. Depending on how you look at it. I don't like it, but it just shows you how devoted they were to honor. I find it upsetting and fassicating at the same time.

It's starting to Erk me that no one is putting honor in pros and cons. I mean to anyone who finds moral standards important, honor is a huge deal. And ninjas can't do that stuff just mentioned and niether could samurai, but I assume you knew that. Ninja and samurai started out almost the same, but soon became very different. I think the best thing lays in the middle of them. A rouge samurai surves no one and is still a trained killing machine. But seriousely a katana held by a samurai can cut through metal armor. And not all samurai wore armor all the time. I prefer the ones that used their robes. They were the most skilled because they were not in war they fought domesticly, and they did not need to worry about being hit because they were so skilled. Now a couple of average ninja can take down a samurai easy, but the top samurai were able to take down almost any number of top ranking ninja. They are on completely different playing fields. But I still dont' get the sneaking thing.

[Murongo]

Samurai, by definition, is just a Japanese soldier. Ninjas are Japanese assassins.

So the question is: What's cooler, a soldier or an assassin?
Now obviously there are moderates and extremas to the debate. The average soldier we'll say is an American GI. The average assassin? Probably a hired hitman. Personally, I think the hitman has more flavor, but the GI would win in a fight. It's pretty closely tied. 1 point each.

So let's try the positive extreme. The coolest soldiers ever are definitely the Spartans. The coolest assassins? Probably ninjas. Whose cooler? Well, again, I think the ninja has more flavor but the spartan would probably destroy him in close combat. Again, 1 point each.

So let's try the negative extreme. Pissant commoner conscript versus road bandit. In this case I think the bandit has more flavor and would win in the fight. That's 2 points for the bandit.

So it's a close match, but I have to go with ninja.

[Cyborg Pirate]

The ritual suicide (Sepuku or Harakiri) can be considered a pro or con.

It's starting to Erk me that no one is putting honor in pros and cons.

Well, the very reason I didn't put it in there is in your first sentence. Depending on your perspective, it's either a pro or con. I don't think it's useful to list it in such a case.



@Morungo: If you're going to look at it realistically, you should know that the first (and real) ninja were simply samurai performing clandestine operations. Ninja as a truly seperate group only sprang up much later, and were usually old samurai families who've gone into specialisation when other samurai went more into desk-jobs and politics.

Which is why I can never look at a ninja vs samurai question seriously, since in reality, they were one and the same.

[Cyborg Pirate]

But seriousely a katana held by a samurai can cut through metal armor. And not all samurai wore armor all the time. I prefer the ones that used their robes. They were the most skilled because they were not in war they fought domesticly, and they did not need to worry about being hit because they were so skilled.

1: No, Katana can Not cut through proper metal armour. It could cut into (into, not through, important destinction) inferior metal armour, but this is something you do Not want to do with your katana. There are other weapons for that.

2: The Katana was a peace-time self-defense weapon and a wartime back-up weapon. The preference for samurai who used their robes is a meaningless one, as all samurai went armoured in war, and robed when not.

Unless you're talking about samurai fiction ofcourse.

[ufo]

Hey, when did this topic get revived?

Anyways, many people think to see samurai from a fictional point, even more than those who see ninjas from a fictional point! What's it with these katanas? Do the elves use them or something?

[Artemician]

1: No, Katana can Not cut through proper metal armour. It could cut into (into, not through, important destinction) inferior metal armour, but this is something you do Not want to do with your katana. There are other weapons for that.

2: The Katana was a peace-time self-defense weapon and a wartime back-up weapon. The preference for samurai who used their robes is a meaningless one, as all samurai went armoured in war, and robed when not.

Unless you're talking about samurai fiction ofcourse.

All correct there. However, while the katana did not really see much use in battle, it was, however, considered the "soul" of a samurai. To be a samurai and not possess a set of daisho was considered a dishonour. The weapon used to settle formal duels, and offered to your Lord when swearing fealty, would be the katana.

[Samurai Iesu]

As far as honor not being put in the pros and cons, all of them are a form of oppinion. I in particular find sneakyness to be a con amoung others.

I have seen a katana cut through metal. I have seen a bullet shot at a katana and get sliced in two. I know what I'm talking about as far as that goes.

It is true that at first the katana did not get much use on the battlefield. The prefered weapon was the bow and arrow, but as combat grew closer, and samurai began to fall off of their horses, samurai used the katana more and more. I mainly talk about the samurai in the period right before the samurai were no longer of use. And I will admit that I do have an idealistic view of samurai, taking all the good things I can see in them and putting them into the same time period, but really they changed a lot as time went on. The coolest thing about samurai, no doubt, is their one-on-one dualing abilities. That is what I love. I mean who doesn't love a good samurai dual? :smallbiggrin: A ninja dual just isn't the same.:smallsigh:

[Cyborg Pirate]

As far as honor not being put in the pros and cons, all of them are a form of oppinion. I in particular find sneakyness to be a con amoung others.

I have seen a katana cut through metal. I have seen a bullet shot at a katana and get sliced in two. I know what I'm talking about as far as that goes.

It is true that at first the katana did not get much use on the battlefield. The prefered weapon was the bow and arrow, but as combat grew closer, and samurai began to fall off of their horses, samurai used the katana more and more.

1: Sneakyness would only be a con if it were used against you :smalltongue: pro's and con's are listed from the perspective of the one they would benefit most I'd say.

2: I work with them on an almost daily basis. Believe me when I say they Don't cut through metal. Tests done with katana on metal helmets and the like were performed on inferior metal, seriously. And the bullet vs katana thing, it works when the bullet hits head-on, especially since the bullet is soft, but have you also seen the follow-up test where the bullet broke the katana in half? The katana is a great weapon, and it's my personal favourite for close-range self-defense in civillian garb. But it's not a uber-weapon, and I prefer it to be appreciated for its true qualities (which are great) then its fictional ones.

3: At first, it got no use at all. It was only introduced in the 1400's and only got more popular towards the late 1400's (and the samurai had lots and lots of war already before that. I'd even go as far to say that the best samurai stories come from before that, but that's personal opinion). It got popular not because "samurai started falling of their horses" (rofl, mental image:smallbiggrin:), but because the amount of warriors on foot and warriors of low wealth grew far greater compared to the amount of warriors with expensive and troublesome horses (japanese war-pony's are a really headstrong breed). The katana is useless against a well armoured opponent (not just because of the characteristics of the blade, but also because of the risk to the weapon. You don't go breaking your weapons on hard targets when you can just as easily grapple and break a few limbs), but excellent against lesser armoured samurai and poorly armoured ashigaru. The katana started out as a poor man's sidearm, and only really gained universal popularity after the age of big battles had ended.


@Artemician: True that.



[Edit]


The coolest thing about samurai, no doubt, is their one-on-one dualing abilities. That is what I love. I mean who doesn't love a good samurai dual? :smallbiggrin: A ninja dual just isn't the same.:smallsigh:

Quoted for Truth!

[Sye216]

Despite the fact that I'm a flaming Narutard, it's hard for me to really pick. Both have advantages and vice-versa, and both have awesome fighting techniques. The blazing, unstoppable warrior, or the dark, silent assassin. Both of these styles appeal to me because I see them often. In my dreams, I'm kind of like a samurai, and in real life I'm incredibly sneaky, like a ninja. So, to be totally honest, it's close, but I'll have to go with ninjas. It's really a matter of opinion, so I don't really get mad if anyone flames the other.

[Jalor]

I totally agree with Owca. Samurai aren't just soldiers. Each one is a one man army who is completely devoted to everything they do. They live by the sword. And unlike ninjas, they don't do stupid sneak attacks in the dark. I guess it all boils down to personal oppionion. If you care about honor you choose samurai. And if you like sneak attacks you choose ninjas. People in the middle choose an idealistic form of ninja or rogue samurai. I personally am all about the deep culture and honor. But there is no arguing the importance of ninjas. While samurai were the ultimate field fighters of Japan and the strongest in any one-o-one combat. But in numbers and sneak attacks, ninjas were the essential sneaky dudes that all the samurai lords needed. They actually had a lot in common, but lived a very different life on the battlefield. Now, the more ninjas you have, the stronger. If you have about 5-1 samurai. If you have 1 samurai to 3 ninjas. Samurai has a 50/50 chance. If you have an army of 20 samurai vs 20 ninjas, they are about even. The samurai would kill everything in their path while the ninjas would get behind the samurai and kill them from behind. All in all I think there would be one ninja left standing, but ninjas cost only slightly less than samurai, and samurai often commanded many more infantry. No they were not just foot soldiers. So that is why they didn't use ninjas on the battle-field like samurai, they were used for ambushes, their primary function.

Srry this is so long. If you read this far or just skimmed ahead, to sum it up. Ninjas suck in one-on-one and battlefield. Ninjas good at ambush. All depends on your personal prefference which is batter.
QFT.

Oh, and I voted Samurai, having taken Jiujitsu classes for years (for anyone who doesn't know, Jiujitsu was the martial art used by Samurai).

[Samurai Iesu]

Well Cyborg Pirate, I can admit when I'm wrong. I do know what I've seen, but it must've been rather week metal that was cut through. I agree with you 100%. You seem to know what you're talking about better than I! XD But it still doesn't dominish how cool samurai are. I actually thank you for pointing out where I was wrong. I'm kinda suprised that ninjas are still winning. Oh well. GO SAMURAI!!! XP

[Murongo]

1: No, Katana can Not cut through proper metal armour. It could cut into (into, not through, important destinction) inferior metal armour, but this is something you do Not want to do with your katana. There are other weapons for that.

2: The Katana was a peace-time self-defense weapon and a wartime back-up weapon. The preference for samurai who used their robes is a meaningless one, as all samurai went armoured in war, and robed when not.

Unless you're talking about samurai fiction ofcourse.

Fortunately for katana-wielders no samurai, or for that matter, any eastern warrior, wore metal armor until long after it was useless as a ceremonial thing. And even then it was only because western nations brought that custom to them.

Samurai "armor", if they wore any, was ceramic. There's no way a katana could cut through that either, but it was heavy and had a lot of weak points to exploit (the neck for one).

[Capt'n Ironbrow]

Thinkin about it... Samurai's, while their nature is quite cool (as in frigid), they are not meant to be cool, they are meant to serve...

Ninja's ain't cool either 'cause they're sneaky basters (even though they should keep their cool or screw up a mission)...

hmmm. difficult this one... Maybe 'cause Ninja's only dress in their kinky black outfit when on mission, the rest of the time they look like Samurai too (with the nifty haircuts and all) ;)

I'd say Ronin are the cool chaps in feudal Japan 'cause they can be BOTH :smallbiggrin: :smallcool:

[Samurai Iesu]

I've never heard of a Ronin, but I think I'm sticking with a rouge samurai. They serve only themselves, and are still a trained killing machine trying to mantain their honor.:smallcool:

[Cyborg Pirate]

Fortunately for katana-wielders no samurai, or for that matter, any eastern warrior, wore metal armor until long after it was useless as a ceremonial thing. And even then it was only because western nations brought that custom to them.

Samurai "armor", if they wore any, was ceramic. There's no way a katana could cut through that either, but it was heavy and had a lot of weak points to exploit (the neck for one).

...What? :smallconfused: What are your sources on this? I have never come across such in my studies. Ceramic? I haven't come across a specimen of samurai armour made out of ceramic. Could you cite some sources on this?

Samurai armour was constructed out of lacquered metal, leather, or a combination of both. The rich could afford all metal armours, the poor would wear various levels of leather protection (usually leaving the legs, arms and heads unarmoured) and those of moderate wealth wore armours constructed by using the metal strips on the easiest to hit areas and leather strips on the rest of the armour.

Full metal armour was already well in use by the majority of the samurai in the 1200's and later. Full suits of O-yoroi (used on horseback) unanimously featured neck protection, so I don't really see where you get the neck vulnerability from. Wars went on into the late 1500's... sooo....




I've never heard of a Ronin, but I think I'm sticking with a rouge samurai. They serve only themselves, and are still a trained killing machine trying to mantain their honor.:smallcool:

Rouge samurai! Discipline, badassery, and Fantastic Makeup!

:smalltongue: Or did you mean rogue samurai? Rogue samurai are ronin, so you can safely think ronin are cool too :smallwink:

[Samurai Iesu]

And I did notice the ceramic armor bit. WTF??? Ceramic armor is just stupid! It would break on contact and would wiegh well over any logical ammount. It would be like carrying around several massive bags of dirt.

And technically, any point of motion could be a weakness. Being that it would be made of leather, and would be softer, it would be easier to break through. Now I've seen people cut down trees with the swords they used. If they can do that, they can cut through some leather armor. That's just my opinioin though.:smallamused:

[Deleran]

Obviously the clincher here is that Mauricio Rua is a better fighter than his older brother Murilo.

[Jaxinator]

Ninja's definitely get cool points, but for my money I'll go with Samurai.

[Em Blackleaf]

I'd say Naruto would be a reason that I wouldn't vote ninja.

But, that's not what this is about.

Samurai cut people, loudly.

End of discussion.

Ninjas, they cut people with swords, silently, and better than any samurai!

In short, I vote ninja.

[Samurai Iesu]

Just because they are quieter?:smallconfused: That's a small thing to base it on. Anybody can be quiet, and the only way it would help is if you were doing some kind of lamo sneak attack that takes all the fun out of it.:smallsigh:

[The Cats]

I voted ninjas, but I'm saying samurai. Just to mess with you.

[I'm da Rogue!]

Just because they are quieter?:smallconfused: That's a small thing to base it on. Anybody can be quiet, and the only way it would help is if you were doing some kind of lamo sneak attack that takes all the fun out of it.:smallsigh:

Come on, it's a matter of taste! Don't try to change our minds if u don't agree with us, there's no point.
You don't like sneaky stuff, for example. I love sneak attacks, silent killings etc. It's quiet, quick and so neat that you don't have to clean the place after you finish the job. What's the big deal? We just dissagree. It would be sooo boring if we all had the same opinion..

[Nyarlethotep]

strangely for me (as someone who has always played rogues, and loves the whole stealth aspect) i'd have to say that samurais get my vote there...there's just something impressive about them...it could also be that manga ninjas really irk me!

[Artemician]

strangely for me (as someone who has always played rogues, and loves the whole stealth aspect) i'd have to say that samurais get my vote there...there's just something impressive about them...it could also be that manga ninjas really irk me!

Don't worry. Manga Samurai irk me too. It scares me that the most accurate representation of a Samurai in a manga was Kenshin.

*Technically, he is a Samurai, no matter what occupation he has. He has a surname, and is thus either Royalty or a Samurai.

[Samurai Iesu]

Well da rouge, I can respect your oppinion, but it's starting to irk me that almost every single samurai vs ninja poll, ninjas are leading. And I did say it myself that it is all a matter of prefference. :smallamused:

The Cats, that vote did it's job. Congradulations, that is the most pointless thing I've seen in this topic so far. :smallconfused:

Artemician and Nyarlethotep, I agree with you as far as manga samurai and ninjas being inacurate, but everything in manga is inacurate. That's just part of the style to exadutate things, but this topic is not to discuss manga, it is to discuss real samurai and ninjas, although for some reason that always leads to manga. :smalltongue:

Just gimme a katana and run! :belkar:

[Cyborg Pirate]

*whistles and hands Iesu a Katana* Dozo... :smallwink:

[Samurai Iesu]

RUN... :xykon:

[I'm da Rogue!]

"Ohhh yes we should run..."


___________*hides*________
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[Samurai Iesu]

And here comes TROGDOR!!!

Ooh noo!!! Trogdor!!!:smallsigh:
He will burninate us all!!!:smallfrown:
Quit your whining and run!!!:smallfurious:

[Shademan]

ninja.
i trained ninjutsu for a while under sensei Kai but i left the clan because of school. So i know a thing or two about ninjas and imust sey: they win!

[Thanatos 51-50]

Each are supreme in their own baliwack, but I have a soft spot for stealth.

I'm going to be forced to vote for the Ninjas, here.