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TheNivMizzet
2015-06-18, 05:20 PM
I've got a new campaign starting on Saturday. It's 3.5/3.0 which allows any material which is official and I can point to it by name and page number. The GM is a really chill person and has house rules for the campaign which I'll put in a spoiler underneath. A player which is no longer playing brought up the issue that one of the house rules doubled the spell slots for every spell-caster, including bonus spells from high modifier, but not domain or school slots. I believe it was correct to call overpowered, along side a rule which lets you refill your level 1-4 spell slots every 2 hours with 10 minutes of meditation. Now I looked at the rules and assessed that there was no reason to not play a wizard, having the ability to throw around spells all the time and change them on the fly when the situation called for it.
I've already finalized my character with the GM, but I'm just wondering what everyone else would do in the same shoes. Go along with the house rules and just play a wizard because there isn't a reason not to, or to find a way which won't reduce the usefulness of every other class to almost 0.
Character Build Policies:
-Starting Level: One.
- Limited Races Allowed: Human, Catfolk, Orc, Gnoll, Goblinoid (Bugbear, Hobgoblin, Goblin) and Kobold. Dambrath is an imperial multiracial society with territory in the Amtar Forest and the Underdark. But any race that is long lived or has a level adjustment higher than +1 is restricted. Alingment restrictions has been cleared to: Any.
-Skill Points at 1st Level: If Starting Skill Allotment is "(2 + Int modifier) × 4", it is now: (4 + int modifier) x 4.
-Ability Score Point Buy System: 50. (The link provided is a reference for using the point buy system)
-Starting Equipment Allowance: 300gp. Cannot buy Two Handed Martial or Exotic Weapons, Bastard Sword, Heavy Armor or Composite Bow.
-Starting Money is the maximum class gold under "Starting Package"
-Weapon Prociency: You are only proficient with any 5 weapons + your Intelligence Modifier + 1/Level after Level One, which can include Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grappling.
-Skill Buying System: All skills are considered "class skills" for the purpose of allocating skill points to a skill. Standard Cross-Class Skill policy is repealed in this campaign.
-Myth Weaver.
-Classes Allowed: Barbarian, Bard, Fighter, Monk, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard for character creation. After Level 4 you will be allowed to multi-class out of these classes. Multi-Class Experience Penalty is repealed.
-Feel free to use any Dungeons and Dragons 3.0 or 3.5 book for the purpose of equipment and spells.
-No Templates.

Languages and Literacy:

The Dungeon and Dragons Language System is not available in this Campaign. The language vary by country instead.

Languages:

Dambrathan (Dambrath)
Amtarian (Amtar Forest)
Riften (East Rift, Riftwood)
Esta (Estagund)
Durpari (Durpar)
Thayan (Thay)
Halru (Halruaa)
Fangari (Gnollwatch Mountains)
Undari Dwarven (Southern Underdark Dwarven)
Undari Drow (Southern Underdark Drow)
Undari Goblin (Southern Underdark Goblin)
Undari Orcish (Southern Underdark Orcish)
Undari Koboldi (Southern Underdark Koboldi)

This campaign switches geography often, but interpreters are available. The most common language is Dambrathan. Hint: Sense Motive Skill.

Melee Weapon AC bonuses: Parrying and Blocking. AC bonuses against other melee weapons. Only haft weapons; spiked chains and whips not included. Remember, any situation when AC bonus is not available these miscelleneous bonuses are also unavailable.

The following weapon categories and form of wielding provides bonus AC as follows:

Light Weapons: +1, two handed +2
One Handed Weapons: +2, two handed +3
Two Handed Weapons: +3

Note: Any penalty to attack roles reduces the AC bonus. Minimum 0 AC bonus.

Shield AC Bonuses:
Shield bonuses are now added to saves for the purpose of blocking ranged attack spells that allow reflex saves.

Buckler: +2, but no bonuses to reflex save versus ranged attack spells.
Light Wooden Shield: +2
Light Steel Shield: +2, -1 damage resistance to fire, cold, electric, acid and force attacks
Heavy Wooden Shield: +3
Heavy Steel Shield: +3, -2 damage resistance to fire, cold, electric, acid and force attacks
Tower Shield: +4, provides cover against spells and -3 damage resistance to fire, cold, electric, acid and force attacks

Bows and Crossbows Range and Damage Modification:
Composite Bows critical threat range is affected by the Strength bonus besides adding Strength bonus to damage, every 2 bonus. Example, Composite Shortbow (+2 Str) has a critical threat range of 19-20/x3. Composite Shortbow (+4 Str) has critical threat range of 18-20/x3 and so forth. For the purpose of confirming critical hit.

Type (Bow) Range Damage
Longbow
Range: 120ft (-1 to attack every 30 ft beyond 120 ft, instead of 10 ft. 300 ft max. range increase)
Damage: 1d8 (x3)

Composite Longbow:
Range: 120ft + 30ft/Str bonus (-1 to attack every 90 ft beyond 120 + 30ft/Str bonus, instead of 10 ft. 600 ft max. range increase)
Damage: 1d8 (Strength bonuses reduces critical threat range for every 2 bonus)

Shortbow
Range: 90ft (-1 to attack every 20 ft beyond 90 ft, instead of 10 ft. 200 ft max. range increase)
Damage: 1d6 (×3)

Composite Shortbow:
Range: 90ft + 20ft/Str bonus (-1 to attack every 60 ft beyond 120 + 20ft/Str bonus, instead of 10 ft. 400 ft max. range increase)
Damage: 1d6 (Strength bonuses add +1 to critical threat range every 2 bonus)

Type (Crossbow)
Crossbow (Light)
Range: 80ft (-1 to attack every 20 ft, beyond 80 ft. 180 ft max. range increase)
Damage: 1d10 (19-20/x2)

Crossbow (Heavy)
Range: 120ft (-1 to attack every 25 ft beyond 120 ft. 210 ft max. range increase)
Damage: 1d10 (18-20/x2)

Attacking while Hiding with Ranged Weapons:
After successfully hiding at least 10 feet from the target, a player can make one invisible ranged attack, then immediately hide again as a standard action. Hide check suffers –5 penalty to hide again. When reloading after attacking, roll another Hide plus Move Silently check at -5. If a crossbow is used (since using a stirrup requires allot of movement) it incurs -7 to Hide while reloading.

Rapid Shot Feat Nerf: Rapid Shot is only usable within the range of 30ft.

Dodge/Mobility Feat Merger:
Dodge has been merged with Mobility. So if Dodge is chosen as a feat, Mobility is a free addition.

Improved Feint Feat Modification:
You can use your highest base attack bonus instead of a Bluff check. In this case, both make opposing attack rolls to determine if the Feint is successful. (Inspired by Dark Souls)

Special Monk Class Modification:
- Alignment restriction to monk has been changed to: Any.
- Monks have Tier 1 Base Attack bonus (similar to Fighter)
- Monks receive +1 to AC every three levels. This policy replaces the original AC Bonus increase rate. So you can now dodge like Neo from the Matrix! (Not really)

Spells per Day Increase:
- Default Spells per Day for all classes is multiplied by two. For the Wizard class, this does count towards "Preparing Wizard Spells" as found on page 177, Players Handbook. But it does not count toward School Specialization bonus spells per day.
Example: a Level 5 Sorcerer's default Spells per Day is:
Level 0: 6/day, Level 1: 6/day, Level 2: 4/day
With this change it is now:
Level 0: 12/day, Level 1: 12/day, Level 2: 8/day
- Level 0 to Level 4 Spells are replenish-able every two hours by following the classes standard way of replenishing spells (meditating, praying, rehearsing, arcane focus, etc) for at least 10 minutes.

Removal of EXP Cost For Crafting Magical Items and Casting Spells
When crafting a weapon, it is now free of EXP cost. Availability of materials and which type of materials needed to craft weapons and use spells may vary.

Armor Weaknesses and Buffs
-Blunt Weapons: +2 to attack vs plate armor
-Slashing Weapons: +2 attack versus unarmored targets. (Spells like Mage Armor or Shield prevents this)
-Piercing Weapons: +2 attack versus chain armor.
-Half the Armor AC counts towards Reflex saving throws against touch or ranged attack spells (except force spells like Magic Missiles). Uneven number bonuses rounds out to the lower even number. Example: A breastplate is +5, so the user receives +2 to Reflex saves versus a spell like Burning Hands.

Weapon Finesse Modification

Anyone can use Weapon Finesse as long as their Dexterity is higher than their Strength.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-06-18, 05:30 PM
Caster is the only way to fly here. The mundanes have a ton of rules that will cause all sorts of wackiness in their power levels. Casters get x2 spells (essentially infinite spells of 4th level or lower).

Dragonwrought Kobold sorcerer/wizard seems like a top pick here.

torrasque666
2015-06-18, 05:32 PM
Caster is the only way to fly here. The mundanes have a ton of rules that will cause all sorts of wackiness in their power levels. Casters get x2 spells (essentially infinite spells of 4th level or lower).

Dragonwrought Kobold sorcerer/wizard seems like a top pick here.
Dragonwrought Kobolds tend to be long-lived. While it is an adjustment made by a feat rather than the race, it might still well be restricted, as per the rules posted above (as it damn well should be)

OldTrees1
2015-06-18, 05:33 PM
I do not build overpowered characters because I have a voice of balance in my head to temper the voice of optimization. So I would probably play a Rogue under those rules(nice expanded skill list) even though they are giving a greenlight to be overpowered if I went wizard.

TheNivMizzet
2015-06-18, 05:37 PM
Dragonwrought got banned as soon as he saw it changed your type to dragon. Even though I don't believe it changes how long you live

ZamielVanWeber
2015-06-18, 05:40 PM
Dragonwrought got banned as soon as he saw it changed your type to dragon. Even though I don't believe it changes how long you live

Human wizard is your best bet then power wise. It is very easy to make everyone else irrelevant, especially with that high a point buy. Also dragonwrought massively boosts how long you live.

TheNivMizzet
2015-06-18, 05:43 PM
Human wizard is your best bet then power wise. It is very easy to make everyone else irrelevant, especially with that high a point buy. Also dragonwrought massively boosts how long you live.

I decided to go Deep Imaskari since we're playing in Forgotten realms. They get +2 intelligence, and I can explain how he ended up imprisoned. I'm going Incantatrix/Io7xV, and the other wizard in the group is going Halaraa Sage so he can utilize circle magic. I'll throw my character sheet down if anyone wants to look, the kit list is so I can survive in a world naturally racist to anyone not human.

Eldaran
2015-06-18, 05:54 PM
Why not simply talk with your DM and tell him the rules greatly favor casters (in a system that already does) and you dislike it?

TheNivMizzet
2015-06-18, 06:00 PM
Why not simply talk with your DM and tell him the rules greatly favor casters (in a system that already does) and you dislike it?

Someone already told him that the house rules heavily favor spellcasters over mundanes and he seems okay with it, and I want to see what happens when you give tier 1 classes even more power. Well I know what happens, but he's also saying that the game will scale with us difficulty wise, and doesn't expect us to be able to get anything serious with a low magic/low income game, despite letting us have leadership. Me and the other wizard are planning on having a diplomancer and an artificer for companions, because we might as well.

Xervous
2015-06-18, 08:02 PM
If any player decides to not play a caster they're seriously going to fall flat on their face after some time without proper optimization. I do hope for your sake that this does not happen because it is an absolute pain to properly scale encounters for different levels of character competency.

On a side note, I have a friend who might want to try what your DM's smoking

ShaneMRoth
2015-06-18, 08:05 PM
Wizard is a wonderful option in this campaign.

A strong case could be made for the Warblade from ToB.

I would play a Warblade who would protect his Glass Cannons with every fiber of his being from day damn one.

martixy
2015-06-18, 08:40 PM
Someone already told him that the house rules heavily favor spellcasters over mundanes and he seems okay with it, and I want to see what happens when you give tier 1 classes even more power. Well I know what happens, but he's also saying that the game will scale with us difficulty wise, and doesn't expect us to be able to get anything serious with a low magic/low income game, despite letting us have leadership. Me and the other wizard are planning on having a diplomancer and an artificer for companions, because we might as well.

That would be me.
He wouldn't let me play a certain character so I just bailed out.

Casters are indeed heavily favored.

Having a bard at the beginning will probably help you as well, since it will be your only reliable access to healing. There's a few ACFs that can help as well - healing hymn being one.

The archery tweaks can make a powerful martial character if you optimize for it. Especially given that 3.0(a.k.a. disciple of dispater) is allowed. You need a steel/iron weapon for the class to work, which is why the swordbow exists. Races of the Wild p.171 has the greatsword/composite longbow combo made entirely of metal.
An aptitude Great Swordbow + 4 levels of fighter or 2 fighter/2 monk and then warblade going for lightning mace will probably demolish anything it can hit.

The no-templates rule is my fault(sorry).

P.S. I've made tests(I wrote a small program to calculate damage output) - the ranged crit build has the ability to completely annihilate things pretty handily - especially at higher levels, where I've had the program run away on me(as in infinite looping, a.k.a. infinite attacks in 1 round).

TheNivMizzet
2015-06-18, 08:57 PM
What did you do to cause the no template rule? I'm just interested in what stupid combo you tried to pull, since I tried to get away with a riddled desert dragonwrought kobold and he turned that down pretty quickly.

Eldaran
2015-06-18, 09:02 PM
The archery tweaks can make a powerful martial character if you optimize for it. Especially given that 3.0(a.k.a. disciple of dispater) is allowed. You need a steel/iron weapon for the class to work, which is why the swordbow exists. Races of the Wild p.171 has the greatsword/composite longbow combo made entirely of metal.
An aptitude Great Swordbow + 4 levels of fighter or 2 fighter/2 monk and then warblade going for lightning mace will probably demolish anything it can hit.


How are you dual wielding bows? Because the Aptitude enchantment doesn't remove that requirement.

martixy
2015-06-18, 09:08 PM
I wanted to support the party, so I was gonna play an Unseelie Fey, Magic-Blooded Bard(by the name of Ayreon) - and instead of rolling have him be blind(with blindsight), but no wings.

The templates were mostly flavour at this point - the generous point buy and double spells would have been enough to play the role, but I wanted the fluff.

I mean his campaign is easy enough to break as is. That wasn't my goal.

He decided that having a human have the fey type offends his sensibilities.
When he would not allow the fluff, but stick to obviously broken rules, I decided to seek greener pastures.

On that note, the Dragon Magazine restriction came immediately after I asked him about taking some things from there, so it could also be my fault. :)


How are you dual wielding bows? Because the Aptitude enchantment doesn't remove that requirement.

Hm... valid point.
Rounbabout kick then. Little bit worse(confirm, not threat) but same idea.

TheNivMizzet
2015-06-18, 09:13 PM
I'm along for the ride. We have contingencies incase stuff goes bad, and I don't think he's ever seen a diplomancer before. Hell, the double spell slots only apply to arcane spellcasters, not divine. Wizards > Everything else in this world it seems, and I don't even think he's noticed. Unseelie fey got it banned? Seriously? Not even lolth touched or symbiotic? Wow.

martixy
2015-06-18, 09:25 PM
I tried to insist. Maybe this ticked him off. :)
I'm not about to voice any judgements on his character or qualifications, but my 6th sense was tingling he was not my kind of DM.

P.S. Here's the character I want to play:
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=236865

Sing like Dio, shred like Yngwie. :smallbiggrin:

ZamielVanWeber
2015-06-18, 09:29 PM
Unseelie fey got it banned? Seriously? Not even lolth touched or symbiotic? Wow.

Lolth-touched is strong but unseelie fey is just plain nasty. It gives a a pile of good stuffs for free. Free.
Also as a DM I would not permit a spark unseelie fey. That is just abusive.

atemu1234
2015-06-19, 12:42 AM
Best two options are Conjurer or Transmuters. Focus on surviving until level five.

TheNivMizzet
2015-06-19, 05:54 AM
Best two options are Conjurer or Transmuters. Focus on surviving until level five.
Amen to that. Since the double slots don't affect school slots me and the other wizard have taken the Conjuration and Transmutation domains, and decided that you can't be too prepared. Hence eggshell grenades and aboleth muci. I don't plan on dying, and apparently we're leveling up after every session, so we should be good to go on the survival front. I even took the alternate class feature to give me the ability to change my movement type 5/day. Once we get rope trick I think we win, but the GM seems like he expects us to die.

Khedrac
2015-06-19, 06:23 AM
I've already finalized my character with the GM, but I'm just wondering what everyone else would do in the same shoes. Go along with the house rules and just play a wizard because there isn't a reason not to, or to find a way which won't reduce the usefulness of every other class to almost 0.
That's easy - play a buffing wizard (which is usually the most efficient wizard variant to play). E.g a War Weaver - the boost to low level spells will allow you to properly refill your weave pretty much every encounter.
(I used to keep Haste, Fly, Greater Invisibility and Protect from Evil in the weave when I played a War Weaver).

Grod_The_Giant
2015-06-19, 06:36 AM
More spell slots make it easier to play a caster, but I don't think they really increase their power. If you naturally get enough spell slots to utterly crush 3-4 encounters/day (as casters do), being able to crush 6/day isn't really that much of an improvement. It is nice for partial casters like the bard and... uh, the bard, who now has enough spells that he doesn't need to hoard them.

On an unrelated note, I kind of want to play a duskblade with a ring of wizardry. Spells for days, man!

TheNivMizzet
2015-06-19, 08:53 AM
Our final party seems to be confirmed as two domain wizards (conjuration and transmutation), a rogue who isn't talking builds with us so we have no idea where he's going, and a barbarian turned ur-priest with potential for dwermokeeper. I think we can probably take what he throws at us, and even if it scales with us, the rate of leveling should keep us ahead of the curve.