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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Dark Sun Preserving and Defiling [PEACH]



Steampunkette
2015-06-18, 06:41 PM
Athas is a land of ashes. Remnants of what once was lay strewn across the hellish landscape while the brown sun blazes in the center of the olive-tinged sky. Dust and Sand blow and billow, scour and smother. And all because of Magic's corruptive touch.

To handle a D&D game set in Athas you have to acknowledge Defilement. Ever since the Green Age arcane magics have stolen the life force of the very world, leaving it barren and rotting. There is no Weave. No Mystra keeping magic replenished. Magic is life force wielded as a tool, a weapon. But it is not so easily available as in other settings. To reflect this, Dark Sun games should use the Speed Factor on Arcane Spells.

This means that any spellcaster who casts a spell must wait a number of turns on the initiative count equal to the spells level for the spell to finish casting. An example:

Kalak, Sorceror King of Tyr, chooses to cast Meteor Swarm, a 9th level spell. His initiative is 20 due to a fairly good roll. He begins casting the spell at initiative count 20 and finishes casting it at initiative count 11. Spellcasters whose initiatives are artificially lowered in this way complete their spell before any other character on that initiative count naturally (through their roll) takes their turn. Any damage taken during the casting time of the spell imposes a concentration check to continue casting. Failure means the spell is not cast and the action is wasted, though the caster retains the spell slot that would have been expended.

This method of Spellcasting is called "Preserving". It does not harm the environment in any way, shape, or form, and results in normal spell effects.

Should a Spellcaster choose to Defile, their spell is cast instantly, requiring no more time to enact than it's normal casting time. However, an area 5ft per spell level in radius around the spellcaster becomes Defiled. A Defiler may also choose to expand the radius of the effect to 10ft per spell level to increase the Save DC against their spell (or the attack roll of their spell) by +2.

The DM should choose between the following two options for what Defiling itself does.

1) All rolls connected to casting a spell within the defiled area are at disadvantage. Characters who are targeted by spells while within a defiled area have advantage on saving throws to resist the spells.

2) Any spellcaster who attempts to cast a spell within a defiled area must make a Spellcasting Check with a DC of 8 plus the level of the spell which defiled the area, plus the level of the spell being cast. On a failure, the spell fails.

Ritual spells do not Defile by default. A DM may choose to create (or work with players to create) rituals that defile as a part of their component cost.

New Feats:
Aspect of the Defiler
* Casting a spell while in a Defiled Area does not cause Disadvantage on Attacks or Concentration checks, grant Advantage on Saves.
* Casting a spell while in a Defiled Area does not require a Concentration Effect.

Aspect of the Preserver
* No longer require additional Turns to Cast Preserving Spells
* Gain Advantage on saves against spells cast via Defiling

This system is inherently unfair to spellcasters who choose to Preserve. And gives undue benefit to those who decide to Defile. That is the intent. Defiling is, inherently, an evil action. And a PC who chooses to defile, consistently, is likely succumbing to the temptations of evil. But even the noble hearted hero of the people may be required to defile, now and again.

As a result of the Defilement of the world most NPCs who witness arcane spellcasting, of any variety, immediately become Hostile toward the offending party. This can result in open attacks, calling of guards, or fleeing from the spellcaster while shouting of their transgression. Some NPCs, based on their knowledge of the Arcane or relationship to the spellcaster, may not become hostile dependent on DM fiat.

Fyndhal
2015-06-18, 06:47 PM
Should a Spellcaster choose to Defile, their spell is cast instantly, requiring no more time to enact than it's normal casting time. However, an area 5ft per spell level in radius around the spellcaster becomes Defiled. No spells can be cast in that area for a number of turns equal to the caster's level, whether cast in a preserving or defiling manner. A Defiler may also choose to expand the radius of the effect to 10ft per spell level to increase the Save DC against their spell (or the attack roll of their spell) by +2.

If the BBEG is a caster, Defiling is a GREAT way to shut them down!

JNAProductions
2015-06-18, 07:05 PM
Intriguing. Nice little way to balance out higher level casting too-suddenly it's much harder to pull off Meteor Swarm.

Mighty_Chicken
2015-06-18, 08:09 PM
Interesting. I wonder, how defiling/preserving worked in AD&D and in the 3.5 fan version?

Wartex1
2015-06-18, 08:14 PM
How about instead of increasing the DC for saves and giving a bonus to attack rolls for Defiling, since that breaks bounded accuracy badly and can shut down anything really easily, you impose a penalty for Preserving?

Say, Preserving imposes a penalty to the DC or Attack roll by 1/3rd of the spell level (rounded up). That way, Defiling isn't broken but Preserving isn't useless. In addition, it also increases the value of lower-level spells that deal damage.

Zaydos
2015-06-18, 08:15 PM
I'd suggest against having defiling shut down casting in the area for a few minutes, and go with having additional defiling spells expand it further. This stops casting a defiling spell from shutting the defiler down, and from shutting caster BBEGs (the Sorcerer-King's) down.

Steampunkette
2015-06-18, 09:40 PM
How about spell's level divided by 3 rounds of noncasting? The caster can always move out of the area, after all.

I don't want to make preserving even weaker than the multiple rounds of interrupt chances.

And yeah, I know the increases of defiling break bounded accuracy. It is, rather, the point. To make it highly tempting to use and fall to evil, and eventual dracopotheosis.

Wartex1
2015-06-18, 09:43 PM
Defiling however isn't just powerful, it's overly powerful. You can get a save DC of 37. I don't think any creature in the monster manual could make that without Legendary Saves.

JNAProductions
2015-06-18, 09:44 PM
Um... That means your base Save DC was 35. That is not, to my knowledge, possible. And DC 35 is already broken.

Wartex1
2015-06-18, 09:52 PM
I for some reason read that as +2 per level of the spell.

Disregard my previous comments.

It looks fine.

Steampunkette
2015-06-19, 06:48 AM
Yeah, it's a flat +2.

So a max level Wizard with a +5 int mod would have a dc of 19 if they preserved and of 21 when defiling.

Meanwhile their target would have a +11 to the saving throw roll, if they're proficient. So a 10 or better succeeds. All in all, not -that- powerful. Though the defiling side effects could screw over the Wizard if the area is larger than they can get out of in a single move action (Unless they've got Expi, Haste, or Time Stop on).

I think the 1/3 spell level (minimum 1) works best for the spellcasting shutdown. But I should probably add some information on the withering and destructive effect. I do not want to use the "Deals damage to creatures in the area during the defilement" effect because that gets powerful!

Bruno Carvalho
2015-06-19, 09:10 AM
What if you just increase the area defiled and change the defiling to impose a cumulative 2 (or 3 or whatever) turn waiting to all spellcasting (Preserving or Defiling) cast in the area. This way, you cant shut the BBEG with just one Defiling AND there will be a time when a caster simply won't be able to cast while Preserving due to the initiative penalty being greater than it's own initiative score (but the dark side will still be open).

Fyndhal
2015-06-19, 09:34 AM
Suppose casting in a Defiled Area imposed Disadvantage on Attack rolls, Concentration Checks to maintain effects and gave Advantage to targets of spells. Casting a spell while in a defiled area would also cause the caster to make a Concentration Check to keep their existing spell in effect.

That doesn't seem too bad.

Now, we add a pair of Feats:

Aspect of the Defiler
* Casting a spell while in a Defiled Area does not cause Disadvantage on Attacks or Concentration checks, grant Advantage on Saves.
* Casting a spell while in a Defiled Area does not require a Concentration Effect.

Aspect of the Preserver
* No longer require additional Turns to Cast Preserving Spells
* Gain Advantage on saves against spells cast via Defiling (or something similar, I'm not sold on this.)

Steampunkette
2015-06-19, 02:20 PM
Ooo... I like those ideas... Especially the feats as they point towards the Paths.

Spiriah
2015-06-21, 06:05 PM
As an alternative idea to the "Disadvantage on casting in defiled zones", maybe have anyone attempting to cast a spell make a check to draw out any energy left over in the defiled zone, with the DC being equal to 10+the level of the spell that defiled the area+the level of the spell that the caster is attempting to cast?

So if someone defiles an area by casting a Cone of Cold and then you're trying to hit them with a Fireball, you have to beat a DC of 18 to cast. Maybe change the base DC from 10 to make it easier/harder. As to what the check is made with, I'm thinking either Concentration or the caster's spellcasting ability modifier, most likely the former, as that'd make it more difficult.

Steampunkette
2015-06-21, 06:18 PM
DC 28 is -probably- a bit much for someone who has a +11 maximum to the roll. (Casting a 9th level spell in a 9th level defiled area).

Hmm... I do like the basic idea, though.

Could go DC: 8+Spell Levels. Maxes it out at 26 which makes it a 70% chance of failure in the most extreme instances. I definitely thinking Casting Mod is appropriate in this instance, since you're using your knowledge/control of magic to get the power required.

Either that or disadvantage, depending on GM preference is probably best. I'll go ahead and update the OP on the matter.

Spiriah
2015-06-21, 10:44 PM
DC 28 is -probably- a bit much for someone who has a +11 maximum to the roll. (Casting a 9th level spell in a 9th level defiled area).

Hmm... I do like the basic idea, though.

Could go DC: 8+Spell Levels. Maxes it out at 26 which makes it a 70% chance of failure in the most extreme instances. I definitely thinking Casting Mod is appropriate in this instance, since you're using your knowledge/control of magic to get the power required.

Either that or disadvantage, depending on GM preference is probably best. I'll go ahead and update the OP on the matter.
To be fair, the first example could be literally using magic to bend reality itself to your will in an area that has already been sucked bone-dry of magic by someone else bending reality itself to their will. But yeah, 8+spell levels could work, and is reminiscent of calculating spell save DCs.

One of the reasons I don't like the disadvantage idea is that (unless I read it wrong) spells that aren't specifically combat-oriented, such as buffs and heals, suffer no real ill effects. Sure, concentration is trickier if you get hit, but if you're a squishy caster and you're playing right, you probably shouldn't be getting hit anyway. And non-concentration buffs or instantaneous noncombat spells still go off without a hitch.