Countering and abusing the shirt of wraith stalking

[Jowgen]

Came across this item in the MIC. It gives hide from undead for 30 minutes as a standard action, with the added bonus that even intelligent undead receive no saving throw. 6000 gp.

It gives flat out blanket immunity to undead perceiving you in any way shape or form until you attack them. As written, not even mega-detectors like mindsight and nemesis work. I'm not even sure a sufficiently high spot check to pinpoint invisible works.

Now on the low end of optimization, this lets you casually stroll through the most undead infested dungeon and then set up a nice surprise round against the BBEG undead; but I have a feeling like there are some worse things one can do to an undead with such a free hit.

Similarly, if you're an undead PC, enemy NPCs with one of these are your worst nightmare.

So what I'm looking for are both counters and abuses for this.

[Rebel7284]

Summoning is the usual way to abuse being undetectable

[ben-zayb]

The origin spell has a specific list of sensory capabilities that it blocks: sight, hearing, scent, and extraordinary and supernatural senses. Thus, many sensing tricks based on spells/powers/SLAs/PLAs are good. One spell I don't usually see recommended is Helping Hand, which is good for a level 3 cleric-exclusive spell and isn't even a divination spell.

[Venger]

Came across this item in the MIC. It gives hide from undead for 30 minutes as a standard action, with the added bonus that even intelligent undead receive no saving throw. 6000 gp.

It gives flat out blanket immunity to undead perceiving you in any way shape or form until you attack them. As written, not even mega-detectors like mindsight and nemesis work. I'm not even sure a sufficiently high spot check to pinpoint invisible works.

Now on the low end of optimization, this lets you casually stroll through the most undead infested dungeon and then set up a nice surprise round against the BBEG undead; but I have a feeling like there are some worse things one can do to an undead with such a free hit.

Similarly, if you're an undead PC, enemy NPCs with one of these are your worst nightmare.

So what I'm looking for are both counters and abuses for this.

it really isn't strong at all.

here are a few things to keep in mind:

1) the CL is only 3. it can thus be suppressed very easily. also remember that hide from undead allows SR, and many undead have SR, so they'll be very unlikely to make the check.

2) if a single undead is able to bypass this, it's completely worthless, since he'll alert the rest of the group. this is also true if your party is fighting a mixed group (e.g. a human cleric and a couple of wights or whatever) so it's not a catchall unless there's a lot of pure undead with no SR or any ability to use tactics to fight invisible foes.

these are the two main direct "counters" to this weak item, but again, it hardly needs it. it deactivates whenever you do anything useful and it takes a standard to activate, so is worthless in combat and thus unlikely to be used, even in an ambush type scenario unless you're giving them a dungeon with just one single no sr-having, dumb undead boss type monster (in which case why?)

while ex/su abilities are blocked, spells aren't. many undead have slas or spellcasting and use it intelligently, since people are always trying to sneak into their crypts and steal their burial shrouds and such.

there really are no ways to abuse this because it's not a strong item. it's as "abusable" as being able to cast the invisibility spell, except much weaker since it only works on one creature type, and even then, only a very small portion of the time.

[Jowgen]

it really isn't strong at all.

here are a few things to keep in mind:

1) the CL is only 3. it can thus be suppressed very easily. also remember that hide from undead allows SR, and many undead have SR, so they'll be very unlikely to make the check.

In order to suppress the item's effect you'd need either an AMF or a targeted dispel... which you can't use because you can't get line of sight. As for the Spell resistance:

Spell resistance does not apply if an effect fools the creature’s senses or reveals something about the creature." The SR: Yes tag simply refers to when you attempt to cast the spell on someone, i.e. try to have them be the benefactor of Hide from Undead. The undead you hide from get no more of a save than someone encountering someone hidden by invisibility.


2) if a single undead is able to bypass this, it's completely worthless, since he'll alert the rest of the group. this is also true if your party is fighting a mixed group (e.g. a human cleric and a couple of wights or whatever) so it's not a catchall unless there's a lot of pure undead with no SR or any ability to use tactics to fight invisible foes.

Even if a single undead or a non-undead noticed you and pointed you out, they would need to have the "Invisibility Sweep" teamwork benefit or something similar to effortlessly let their undead allies pinpoint your square. Even then, you still have total concealment against all the undead, which is way handy for obvious reasons. You can more or less ignore the undead that can't perceive you and kill whoever can instead.


these are the two main direct "counters" to this weak item, but again, it hardly needs it. it deactivates whenever you do anything useful and it takes a standard to activate, so is worthless in combat and thus unlikely to be used, even in an ambush type scenario unless you're giving them a dungeon with just one single no sr-having, dumb undead boss type monster (in which case why?)

Attacking is not the only thing you can do. As Rebel7284 mentioned, summons are one thing, and my hope is that others will suggest similar non-effectbreaking uses. Again, SR does nothing. In direct combat with an undead it's usefulness is admittedly lessened, but you can always fall back to a kiting-type approach, where you attack and then retreat one round, then re-hide and move back in the next. You effectively get 2 for 1s on goes that way.


while ex/su abilities are blocked, spells aren't. many undead have slas or spellcasting and use it intelligently, since people are always trying to sneak into their crypts and steal their burial shrouds and such.

That would be the kind of counters I'm looking for, but really, nothing quite comes to mind. Helping Hand, as ben-zayb suggested, would only work once the Undead has actually seen you, and then it needs to spend an action casting it, and then wait another round for the hand to find you. Really, what you'd need is a spell that allows you to pinpoint creatures in real time but doesn't in any way rely on your ability to perceive those creatures.

Would good oldfashioned glitterdust work? I can see reasons for and against it, and it's not perfect as you still need to spend time casting and be able to accurately guess within 10 ft, but it would be a start.