Would you use a gaming library?

[FreeRangeOyster]

So I had an idea, and I wanted to see what other people thought before I pursued it. I was lamenting the cost of sourcebooks (I'm the sole provider for my family and a full-time student so cash is scarce) and I started thinking, what if there were a library of source books? I can't usually shell out the thirty dollars for a new book, but I could come up with five or ten bucks a month to get access to a whole bunch of books. So what do you all think? Is it feasible, and would you buy in?

[Diggorian]

In your situation, sure I'd do it. Works for general libraries, why not one devoted to gaming?

[Starsinger]

That's a great idea! Although your local public library might have some D&D books, as mine does.

[Rolaran]

I would definitely be willing to pay some kind of monthly fee for access to a source book library. Of course, my town is small enough that I need to have anything other than core rulebooks shipped in specially, so I would love any easier way to get books, but I would love to see a D&D library.

[Arlanthe]

My wife is a librarian. They have most D&D books in the system. Plus two D&D gaming groups. Further, once a month an electronic gaming day with pizza, and are considering loaing console games in the multimedia section.

In twenty yers, libraries will carry video games as they carry DVDs now.

[RandomNPC]

i'd be all over that if i hadn't already bought all the books i've got. good idea, to late for me.

my cousin borrowed stormwreck and the DMG at his local library, it seems that they have whatever is given to them, they don't mean to have them, they just got there somehow.

[Jack_Simth]

i'd be all over that if i hadn't already bought all the books i've got. good idea, to late for me.
You do realize that merely means you could *start* such a library, for what amounts to the cost of a business license, right?

[ken-do-nim]

I have this dream that one day when I have enough money to finish my attic (it's a full-height attic), I'll convert it into a gamer's paradise. [err um, with space for my wife's office too. After all, she has to let me spend our money on that attic]. When I have a gaming club meeting there regularly, I'll try to have a gaming library there. This means that everybody in the club contributes games & books and stores them there. Of course someone who leaves the club can take whatever they bought home with them.

[Wolf_Shade]

Ideal setup, in my opinion, is online access to all sourcebooks via a moderate (read 2 or 3 bucks) subscription. Overall, the fees will eventually result in a higher profit than selling the books individually (longterm). That's just my opinion though.

Edit: for access to old source material (such as AD&D or 2) you could kick in an extra 3-5 dollars for the additional required storage space. You could also make the 2 or 3 dollars per system, so D&D is 3 bucks, Shadowrun (not the same company, but for the sake of argument) 3 bucks, etc.

[Kultrum]

The way I see it they could do this like gamefly or blockbuster you know mail the books out and you pay a monthly subscription they make money and you get the books you want everyone wins :smallbiggrin:

[Weezer]

I second wolf shades idea, that would be an awesome business, I would definetly subscribe to something like that:smallsmile:.

[ocato]

Well, if you mailed the books out, they'd probably all end up covered in cheeto residue or mountain dew stains. With the subscription interenet idea, people could just print them out it seems. I dunno, it seems that it'd be really easy to cheat these systems. That's my "from WotC's perspective" opinion.

From *my* perspective, this is a great idea. I'd love to be able to read up on a PrC someone mentioned to me without dropping 40 bucks on the book it is in.

In a perfect world it'd all be free and we'd be able to frolic in the dungeons with any feat we want. Some day... some day.

Frolic is a class skill for bards, FYI

[Galathir]

I think it's a great idea. I am more than happy to shell out the money for a source book if I improves my gaming and give me lots of fun options (ToB for instance). However, there are plenty of other books that might contain a few interesting ideas but not enough to make me spend 30 bucks to buy it. Plus, I know several gamers who just don't have the resources to buy their own books.

Our gaming group has a kind of informal library where we all bring our books to each session and let each other borrow books, but a more organized library that included more than six people would be a really good idea.

[Raum]

I'd work with your local library to get books if they don't already have them. The library is already set up to do all the work for loaning out physical books. Some even mail books to your home. Besides, any type of online distribution will need licensing from the copyright holders.

Remember though, the game companies stay in business by selling books. Support the ones you like when you can...if you want them to stay in business.

[Rama_Lei]

My libray has D&D books as well as video games for Gamecube, PS2, Xbox, Xbox 360, Wii, PS3, Nintendo DS and a few others. Booyah.

[FreeRangeOyster]

I don't think I was very specific with what I had in mind in the OP. On the other hand, that's brought all kinds of ideas out into discussion, which is great. I considered the possibility of an online or mail-out system for about 3.5 seconds. Too much hassle, too much risk, not enough return. I settled on the idea of a local thing, maybe out of a modified garage until there are enough members to afford some kind of office-type space. I'm trying to take ranks in Profession: Librarian, so this might look good on a future resume.

The local library here has some D&D books, but not a lot, and nothing I've found for any other system. That was one of my original motivations: there are a lot of other things I'd like to try, like Palladium or Dogs in the Vineyard, but I don't have access to the books for them.

Given this clarification, does anyone have any suggestions about how this might best be implemented? Especially, is there anyone on here in the Greater Sacramento Area?

[Vaynor]

I don't think I was very specific with what I had in mind in the OP. On the other hand, that's brought all kinds of ideas out into discussion, which is great. I considered the possibility of an online or mail-out system for about 3.5 seconds. Too much hassle, too much risk, not enough return. I settled on the idea of a local thing, maybe out of a modified garage until there are enough members to afford some kind of office-type space. I'm trying to take ranks in Profession: Librarian, so this might look good on a future resume.

The local library here has some D&D books, but not a lot, and nothing I've found for any other system. That was one of my original motivations: there are a lot of other things I'd like to try, like Palladium or Dogs in the Vineyard, but I don't have access to the books for them.

Given this clarification, does anyone have any suggestions about how this might best be implemented? Especially, is there anyone on here in the Greater Sacramento Area?

Sounds like a cool idea, I'd rent from you, except it'd be less money to buy the books than spend money on gas for a 9 hour drive to Sacramento from where I live. :smallwink:

[lumberofdabeast]

My libray has D&D books as well as video games for Gamecube, PS2, Xbox, Xbox 360, Wii, PS3, Nintendo DS and a few others. Booyah.

I want to go to your library.

[Wolf_Shade]

With the subscription interenet idea, people could just print them out it seems. I dunno, it seems that it'd be really easy to cheat these systems. That's my "from WotC's perspective" opinion.
Easily worked around. You just require a client application with no available use of the printer hardware that disables the copy function. Granted it could still be print screened and pieced together, but you already have people scanning and PDFing the source books as it is. I think it would be valuable.

As for having the books "at the table" I suspect a good number of players know at least one person with a laptop, maybe not. I'm a bit of a techie, not a technofile by any means, but I fall into the trap of assuming everyone has a laptop and wireless internet access too often, so that somewhat influences my view of the idea.


Too much hassle, too much risk, not enough return.
How so?

[FreeRangeOyster]

Wolf Shade: The electronic angle would require arranging rights agreements with all of the publishers whose products I carried and developing a system like the one you described. It's not a bad idea, especially with Wizards' new emphasis on web content (Dragon is dead, long live Dragon) but it's one that would require time and venture capital that I just don't have. If someone wanted to hook me up with fat sacks of cash money, hey, I'm game! In the mean time, I'll stick to what I can do with my own resources. The hang-up would be that while a dead-tree library wouldn't likely hurt the company's sales, a subscription service probably would. With a library you're limited to what's available, while an electronic subscription service would give unlimiteds access. The fee would have to be much higher than the $5-$10 I had in mind, I think.
For the mailing method, there's the cost of postage, which adds up quickly. I wanted this to be an inexpensive service, and unless there is a large client pool, the cost of postage would be hard to soak up and still cover expenses such as new material, which is the other half of the purpose. There's also the difficulty of recovering overdue materials. If they can't afford the book, it's not likely I'd be able to collect replacement fees either. Like the electronic route, this is also possible but only with venture capital.

Since I first posted, this idea has gained momentum in my head. I can't seem to shake it. It's now my final project for my Business Planning class. My wife and I were discussing it, and batted around several ideas, including free or rentable gaming space, with the library right there for easy reference if something comes up. We were thinking that anyone could use the library, but check-out would only be available with the $5/mo. membership. If this flies as a library, I'll be applying for non-profit status, so donations and dues would be tax-deductible.

[Bouldering Jove]

Is the gamer population in your area really dense enough to support something like this? Consider that an entire gaming group has little incentive to get more than one subscription between them. I just can't see this venture having a particularly substantial revenue, even assuming that every local game group employs the service, you incur no expenses for physical space, and the books never deteriorate or need replacement.

[Wolf_Shade]

The electronic angle would require arranging rights agreements with all of the publishers whose products I carried and developing a system like the one you described.
Ah, gotcha. Sorry. Didn't realize you were speaking from the position of starting something. I was more going from a hypothetical standpoint, as in, it would make sense for Wizards to do it. (Or someone capable of bringing multiple companies under one roof for subscribers.)

In that vein, yeah, some sort of local gaming library would be cool. You're still going to have to worry about copyright issues if you charge for rentals though. I've only recently taken an interest in tabletop games, but I know some people who would jump all over a local resource like that.

[Inyssius Tor]

A library system sounds like a really good idea to me. I've been to a lot of real libraries, and none of them ever had a single sourcebook.

If you were going to be printing the book out, it would contain all the content of every book you could access (and so probably cost a lot more than 5 bucks/month).
In addition, there's just nothing as easy-to-read or tactilely pleasing as a hardcover book (in my opinion). Printing the books out would take time and effort; it would be harder to read (and unpleasing to the touch) as well.

As for the "Netflix approach:" There are a whole lot of books available. I normally page through them (over the course of five-or-so hours), and then leave them alone for days or weeks until I think of something interesting that the book might help me with (this normally takes about five more hours from start to finish).
This makes it hard to use books without buying them (somewhat at random, since I can really only make an assessment near the end of my first read-through).
Ordering and receiving books by mail would definitely not help this problem; I would have to order them basically at random, since I wouldn't be reading them online. Whenever I had a related idea, I would have to wait three days for the book to arrive; by that time I've probably thought of something else to do. It wouldn't help at all if I had sessions more than once a week ("ack, they're going to the East? I could get Unapproachable East... no, wait, I would have to postpone the session. The mail doesn't run on Sundays.").

EDIT: Also, it wouldn't help with rules disputes: "It gives you an AoO on every opponent who attacks you? Would you happen to have the book with you? You sent it back, you say? Well, DM Fiat says... BAN!"

[Rob Knotts]

I used to run a gaming library.

For about a year and a half I worked at a collectibles store, all second-half stuff ranging from comic books to 80s G.I. Joe toys to Coca Cola promotional items. I was hired in '99 because nobody else could handle the crowds of pokemon kids without going on a killing spree, but everybody who worked there had several specialties, and when they hired me they got the first full-time gamer to work there in a long time.

Within a few months we had a pretty big RPG section with a lot of turnaround. Mostly it was AD&D 2e, Rifts, and World of Darkness, but we had a lot of people trading in stacks of books to walk out with smaller stacks of books they didn't have before. As far as I know we were the only store in Phoenix that did that much trading in game books, and since the store closed a few years ago*, I haven't heard of anybody else picking up the slack since (might be different near the university, but that's a whole 'nother town).

*eBay was eating heavily into sales, so the owner decided to join'em instead of trying to beat'em.

Your best bet would probably be to pick a big used book store in your area and get as many people as you can to trade in thier old game books there. The bookstore won't give a lot of trade credit to start out with, but they'll still probably take the books, and the more traffic they get the better trade deals they'll offer.