DungeonMaster77
2007-04-26, 01:43 PM
For those of you familiar with the rules of Werewolf Classic, this is a Poll you want to participate in, especially if you are going to participate in Werewolf Classic IV. The following is a discussion on a rules amendment that will be applied for future Werewolf Classic games. However, in the interest of fairness, I am putting forth a poll, to see what the Werewolf Classic community wants to do, in regards to this rule, for the upcoming game Werewolf Classic IV.
By DM77
Hey All,
I have a question: How have we been playing the Devil role? Have we been ruling that the Werewolves know who the devil is and visa versa? I have found some info that says the Devil doesn't know who the werewolves are and the werewolves don't know who the Devil is. I think that I am going to go with this as 1) It makes for an interesting game. The devil is steering votes to kill villaigers, but at the same time trying not to look like the Seer or Fool, so as to avoid getting themselves killed at night. 2) The Devil will have to be more careful as to who they give info to. The Devil may end up trusting the Masons, thinking them Werewolves, only to get himself killed. 3)The Seer and Fool are going to have more fun, possibly even going as far as to trick them into killing the Devil, posing as the Devil, granted, only to get themselves killed, but not before being able to leak the identities of the werewolves to the town. 4) The werewolves will have to be careful with whom they get information. Trust the wrong person and scenario #3 can happen!
What do you all think?
By Castaras
Set that up in a new genre of Werewolf. Keep classic straight for the moment.
By Kyrian
As a villager, I'd say yes. As a wolf or devil, no. In my opinion it'd give the villagers an unfair advantage. The wolves would pretty much be flying blind the whole time.
By Joosbawx
I would say that would belong more in a non-Classic version of WereWolf...however, I'm totally willing to try it, too.
By DM77
Well, to answer both of you: 1) This is in the original werwolf game 2) Don't the villagers "fly blind" with regards to the Seer? The Seer has to prove themselves, and so the Devil would as well.
Edit: Also, I think it must be said that the Devil is a complete and different role. It is not an "advanced werewolf."
By Korith
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyrian
The wolves would pretty much be flying blind the whole time.
Interestingly enough, they wouldn't.
I could see this as happening in a game where there were fewer, or no masons to begin with. Loss of wolf-side information would be balanced with a loss of villager-side information.
The wolves still know each other, and this is their primary advantage. The loss on their part is that they no longer have a reliable source of information for themselves. Still, they hold the edge in terms of knowing who isn't a wolf, save for one - the devil.
I'd personally be okay playing in this format, and it certainly makes more sense with the original "the wolves sometimes kill the devil" claim (WWCII revised aside. Ouch, Gezina )
Still, I think any significant revision to the classic rules needs to be run by the classic players. Some are there because it's werewolf, some are there because it's the format they like more than others, and some are there because it's pure werewolf. They're the ones who it needs to be taken up with. (Myself, being one, has spoken)
By Atreyu the Masked Llama
I saw go for it. It may seem like the villagers have an advantage, but the wolves have won the majority of our games, the past month of April excluded. Plus, I trust DM 77's judgement.
By Raldor
It's a tough call. I've read a few articles somewhere on how various roles affect the game, and I believe having a seer, baner and masons actually pushes the game very strongly in the villagers favor. We've just had a lot of games where the wolves have found the seer early. The fool only marginally weakens the villager side. Separating the wolves and Devil makes good sense, but from a game balance perspective I think its better to have them all known. You could counter-balance by having less masons, but I'd rather allow for as many people as possible to have roles.
By DM77
Okay, I'll post this revision of the rules in the WWC IV recruiting thread, and see what they think. I will, for sure, include this as a permanent revision in all future WWC games, but for the current game that is coming up, I will just put it to a vote to see who is in favor of the 'new' rule. I'll keep you all posted.
Also, as for the number of Masons, I have always used a number that is 3/5 the number of the werewolves (to include the Devil) rounded down. So, if there are 9 werewolves and 1 Devil, there would be 6 Masons. I used this template for the first WWC game run on these boards.
This is why:
To have a Baner, Seer, and the Villagers, as Raldor has said, the Fool only marginally weakens the villager side's advantage, and victory does favor the Villagers. This is why the concept of the Devil was introduced, to balance this. The Devil's and werewolves knowledge of each other greatly increases the odds for the Werewolves, as I have seen in recent games, and even the game I was a player in. Therefore, I think the Devil should not know the identities of the lycanthropes. It tips the balance too much in favor of team werewolf.
Here are your answer choices:
1) Yes, implement the new rule.
2) I don't know what I want to do.
3) I am undecided.
4) No, I don't want this rule implemented for Werewolf Classic IV.
By DM77
Hey All,
I have a question: How have we been playing the Devil role? Have we been ruling that the Werewolves know who the devil is and visa versa? I have found some info that says the Devil doesn't know who the werewolves are and the werewolves don't know who the Devil is. I think that I am going to go with this as 1) It makes for an interesting game. The devil is steering votes to kill villaigers, but at the same time trying not to look like the Seer or Fool, so as to avoid getting themselves killed at night. 2) The Devil will have to be more careful as to who they give info to. The Devil may end up trusting the Masons, thinking them Werewolves, only to get himself killed. 3)The Seer and Fool are going to have more fun, possibly even going as far as to trick them into killing the Devil, posing as the Devil, granted, only to get themselves killed, but not before being able to leak the identities of the werewolves to the town. 4) The werewolves will have to be careful with whom they get information. Trust the wrong person and scenario #3 can happen!
What do you all think?
By Castaras
Set that up in a new genre of Werewolf. Keep classic straight for the moment.
By Kyrian
As a villager, I'd say yes. As a wolf or devil, no. In my opinion it'd give the villagers an unfair advantage. The wolves would pretty much be flying blind the whole time.
By Joosbawx
I would say that would belong more in a non-Classic version of WereWolf...however, I'm totally willing to try it, too.
By DM77
Well, to answer both of you: 1) This is in the original werwolf game 2) Don't the villagers "fly blind" with regards to the Seer? The Seer has to prove themselves, and so the Devil would as well.
Edit: Also, I think it must be said that the Devil is a complete and different role. It is not an "advanced werewolf."
By Korith
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyrian
The wolves would pretty much be flying blind the whole time.
Interestingly enough, they wouldn't.
I could see this as happening in a game where there were fewer, or no masons to begin with. Loss of wolf-side information would be balanced with a loss of villager-side information.
The wolves still know each other, and this is their primary advantage. The loss on their part is that they no longer have a reliable source of information for themselves. Still, they hold the edge in terms of knowing who isn't a wolf, save for one - the devil.
I'd personally be okay playing in this format, and it certainly makes more sense with the original "the wolves sometimes kill the devil" claim (WWCII revised aside. Ouch, Gezina )
Still, I think any significant revision to the classic rules needs to be run by the classic players. Some are there because it's werewolf, some are there because it's the format they like more than others, and some are there because it's pure werewolf. They're the ones who it needs to be taken up with. (Myself, being one, has spoken)
By Atreyu the Masked Llama
I saw go for it. It may seem like the villagers have an advantage, but the wolves have won the majority of our games, the past month of April excluded. Plus, I trust DM 77's judgement.
By Raldor
It's a tough call. I've read a few articles somewhere on how various roles affect the game, and I believe having a seer, baner and masons actually pushes the game very strongly in the villagers favor. We've just had a lot of games where the wolves have found the seer early. The fool only marginally weakens the villager side. Separating the wolves and Devil makes good sense, but from a game balance perspective I think its better to have them all known. You could counter-balance by having less masons, but I'd rather allow for as many people as possible to have roles.
By DM77
Okay, I'll post this revision of the rules in the WWC IV recruiting thread, and see what they think. I will, for sure, include this as a permanent revision in all future WWC games, but for the current game that is coming up, I will just put it to a vote to see who is in favor of the 'new' rule. I'll keep you all posted.
Also, as for the number of Masons, I have always used a number that is 3/5 the number of the werewolves (to include the Devil) rounded down. So, if there are 9 werewolves and 1 Devil, there would be 6 Masons. I used this template for the first WWC game run on these boards.
This is why:
To have a Baner, Seer, and the Villagers, as Raldor has said, the Fool only marginally weakens the villager side's advantage, and victory does favor the Villagers. This is why the concept of the Devil was introduced, to balance this. The Devil's and werewolves knowledge of each other greatly increases the odds for the Werewolves, as I have seen in recent games, and even the game I was a player in. Therefore, I think the Devil should not know the identities of the lycanthropes. It tips the balance too much in favor of team werewolf.
Here are your answer choices:
1) Yes, implement the new rule.
2) I don't know what I want to do.
3) I am undecided.
4) No, I don't want this rule implemented for Werewolf Classic IV.