3.5 Mystic Theurge + Practiced Spellcaster

[ShadowfireOmega]

I currently have a 3/3/3 Clr/Wiz/MyT and am planning an eventual 5/5/10 build on it. My question is can I choose Mystic Theurge as the class I apply Practiced Spellcaster to? If so would I then cast all spells as a 9th level spellcaster (eventual 10th once I start leveling clr/wiz)?

The only thing I can find somewhat close to a no is in the general description in the complete arcane "Choose a spellcasting class that you possess. Your spells cast from that class are more powerful."
However in the actual benefit portion it only says your caster level for that class increases by 4, up to a maximum equal to your hit die. And the Mystic Theurge spells description (this alone indicating the theurge is a spellcasting class, satisfying that prereq.) says to add MyT levels to the spellcasting class to determine the caster level. So if this does not work, will it also not work the other way around?

[Roga]

I could be mistaken, but this wouldn't work because Mystic Theurge doesn't grant spellcasting. It merely improves existing. If it granted it's own spell progression, like the Ur-Priest, it would be valid. There are Wizard spells, Cleric spells, and Ranger spells. There aren't any Mystic Theurge spells.

[Troacctid]

"Spellcasting class" is never defined in the rules. Personally, I am of the opinion that prestige classes that advance spellcasting count as "spellcasting classes" because, I mean, duh.

However, it's a moot point, because choosing Mystic Theurge for Practiced Spellcaster would increase the caster level of your Mystic Theurge spells, not your Cleric or Wizard spells. And Mystic Theurge doesn't give you any spells of its own--it only improves your spellcasting from other classes.

Bottom line, it doesn't work.

[Mr Adventurer]

Also 5/5/10 is terrible, are you sure you wouldn't rather go 3/3/10/other PRC 4?

[ShadowfireOmega]

Ok, guess it won't work, bit OP if it did xD

Shoot me a few good PrC's that have a good 4 level dip that also let me keep at least one of my base classes leveling, I'll take a look at em (I prefer wizard, but cleric is ok)

[Ger. Bessa]

For the wizard side :
Incantatrix (2 metamagic feats, metamagic abuse)
Olin gisir (2 secrets, can be feats) need elf
Shadowcraft mage (3rd level gives shadow illusions for more versatility) need gnome
Archmage (good stuff all around, but only for arcane) you can nab 2 more levels of wizard for the feat/acf and top with archmage.

Many FR prestige classes give big things at lv1,4,7 and 10, so 4 levels are good.

For cleric :
The inquisitor from Complete Divine : a domain, some immunities.
Paragnostic apostle : good little things at each level (works for wizards too).
Seeker of the misty isle/ for elf only, domain.
Contemplative : free domain.
Dweomerkeeper : harsh requirements, and really good with a bit more levels.

[Mr Adventurer]

Archmage if you have the prerequisites.
Abjurant Champion if your Cleric levels gave you a martial weapon proficiency.

[Chronos]

Note that Dweomerkeeper can apply to either side. Builds based primarily on it are more often cleric-based than wizard-based, but if you're starting from a Mystic Theurge, it's probably stronger to apply it to the wizard side.

[Mr Adventurer]

Geomancer!

[Samalpetey]

Do note though, Practiced Spellcaster isn't +4 levels in your spellcasting class, it's +4 CL. So for example, a 16th level wizard/4th level fighter with practiced spellcaster: wizard would be casting at CL 20, but would only have access to up to 8th level spells

[HolyDraconus]

Why not play a human, take pa twice and go into mt at level 4? 2wiz, 1 clr 10 mt leaves with 7 levels to throw around, casting as a 12lvl wiz and 11 lvl clr, and should net you 9/9 spellcasting if followed with a proper prc....

[Andezzar]

Why not play a human, take pa twice and go into mt at level 4? 2wiz, 1 clr 10 mt leaves with 7 levels to throw around, casting as a 12lvl wiz and 11 lvl clr, and should net you 9/9 spellcasting if followed with a proper prc....Because Practiced Spellcaster does not allow a Wiz2/Clr2 to cast 2nd level spells. Practiced Spellcaster only increases the Caster Level (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_casterlevel&alpha=C) of the spells the character casts, it does not allow him to count as having more levels in a spellcasting class. Only that would give you access to 2nd level spell slots.

The aforementioned character would cast two projectiles with magic missile (according to CL 4) but could not prepare or cast melf's acid arrow because that is a 2nd level spell.

[Grooke]

The only good use of Mystic Theurge I know of, is abusing it for rapid progression classes (Ur-priest + Beholder Mage + Mystic Theurge, for example).

Like several people have mentioned, Practiced Spellcaster states

This does not affect your spells per day or spells known. It only increases your caster level, which would help you penetrate SR and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.

You loose out on a lot of casting power that you cannot get back. From a 3/3/3, the most you can get in 17th lvl arcane or divine, and 13th lvl in the other (so barely lvl 9 spell in one, lvl 7 in the other).

[ZamielVanWeber]

The only good use of Mystic Theurge I know of, is abusing it for rapid progression classes (Ur-priest + Beholder Mage + Mystic Theurge, for example).

It still works fine if you use early entry and focus on one side. A wizard 2/cleric 1/mystic theurge 10/X arcane 7 barely has a hiccup in arcane casting and still hits 6ths on the cleric side at 13 (late, but better than never).

[atemu1234]

Also 5/5/10 is terrible, are you sure you wouldn't rather go 3/3/10/other PRC 4?

Also, try to get 9th-level spells.

[bean illus]

It still works fine if you use early entry and focus on one side. A wizard 2/cleric 1/mystic theurge 10/X arcane 7 barely has a hiccup in arcane casting and still hits 6ths on the cleric side at 13 (late, but better than never).

MT is so feat/feature starved even without early enty, but human can help some.

As an option, since you have Versatile Caster, Heighten Spell, and loads of spells, you can focus on one side, and just get PC for one side. By channeling many of your spells through the focused class you would still have a decent CL and lots of versatility, and an open feat, for flavoring.

Incantix (for the metamagic feat), Abjurant Champion, or Dweomerkeeper.

DK has easy prereqs and ...
Supernatural Spell (Su): At 4th level, Once per day as a standard action, does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and ignores the target's spell resistance.

[Ruethgar]

Because Practiced Spellcaster does not allow a Wiz2/Clr2 to cast 2nd level spells. Practiced Spellcaster only increases the Caster Level (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_casterlevel&alpha=C) of the spells the character casts, it does not allow him to count as having more levels in a spellcasting class. Only that would give you access to 2nd level spell slots.

The aforementioned character would cast two projectiles with magic missile (according to CL 4) but could not prepare or cast melf's acid arrow because that is a 2nd level spell.

PA is Precocious Apprentice, not Practiced Spellcaster. Also note Mystic Theurge can be entered with just a couple Knowledge checks at level 3 so Wiz 1/Clr 1/MT 10/X 8 is valid. Alternate Source Spell with a Sorc/Cleric/MT would allow you to prepare and cast arcane spells as a cleric(or Spell Domain) to go into Ultimate Magus if you wanted to really cheese it for greater advancement.

[nyjastul69]

I currently have a 3/3/3 Clr/Wiz/MyT and am planning an eventual 5/5/10 build on it. My question is can I choose Mystic Theurge as the class I apply Practiced Spellcaster to? If so would I then cast all spells as a 9th level spellcaster (eventual 10th once I start leveling clr/wiz)?

The only thing I can find somewhat close to a no is in the general description in the complete arcane "Choose a spellcasting class that you possess. Your spells cast from that class are more powerful."
However in the actual benefit portion it only says your caster level for that class increases by 4, up to a maximum equal to your hit die. And the Mystic Theurge spells description (this alone indicating the theurge is a spellcasting class, satisfying that prereq.) says to add MyT levels to the spellcasting class to determine the caster level. So if this does not work, will it also not work the other way around?

If you are playing in a low-mid op group, I wouldn't worry about the loss of CL's MT presents. It's got great utility and it is great fun. I personally wouldn't go 5/5/10 though. When I played one I went 7/3/10. I applied PS to my high side.

[ZamielVanWeber]

PA is Precocious Apprentice, not Practiced Spellcaster. Also note Mystic Theurge can be entered with just a couple Knowledge checks at level 3 so Wiz 1/Clr 1/MT 10/X 8 is valid. Alternate Source Spell with a Sorc/Cleric/MT would allow you to prepare and cast arcane spells as a cleric(or Spell Domain) to go into Ultimate Magus if you wanted to really cheese it for greater advancement.

The skills are 6 ranks. You need 3 levels to get rank 6 skills, so Wizard 1/Cleric 1 does not work.

[torrasque666]

Why not play a human, take pa twice and go into mt at level 4? 2wiz, 1 clr 10 mt leaves with 7 levels to throw around, casting as a 12lvl wiz and 11 lvl clr, and should net you 9/9 spellcasting if followed with a proper prc....
You mean other than the fact that Precocious Apprentice does not contain language allowing it to be taken multiple times?

[Curmudgeon]

Why not play a human, take pa twice and go into mt at level 4?
Because that doesn't even come close to working.

If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description.

In general, having a feat twice is the same as having it once.
So taking Precocious Apprentice a second time merely wastes a feat. You can only take PA at 1st level and it has to be for an arcane spellcasting class which you have access to (i.e., you must start off with a level of arcane spellcasting class to satisfy the feat's requirements) and you must pick a spell from a school of magic you have access to, necessarily in that chosen arcane spellcasting class.

When you become able to cast 2nd-level spells, you lose the benefit described above but retain the extra 2nd-level spell slot, which you can use to prepare or spontaneously cast a spell of 2nd level or lower as you normally would.
Note that "able to cast 2nd-level spells" isn't restricted to any one class; it's a general condition. If you're able to cast any 2nd-level spells normally, you lose the Precocious Apprentice 2nd-level spell benefit. Precocious Apprentice doesn't get you into Mystic Theurge early, because when you become able to cast 2nd-level Cleric spells (Wizard 1/Cleric 3) you lose the PA 2nd-level spell and can only use the PA spell slot to prepare spells normally (which you can't do until you get to Wizard 3).

[ZamielVanWeber]

Since we are discussing early entry I do love illumian. Improved Sigil (Krau) can boost a cleric and a wizard spell to 2nd (some terms and conditions apply) and they can get their lost caster levels back via the racial trait krau. You are still behind in spell levels, but it works out nicely.

[Ruethgar]

Mystic Theurge doesn't need (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/testBasedPrerequisites.htm#mysticTheurge) to have 6 ranks. Also, Precocious Apprentice may require arcane casting, but the spell and slot it gives is not specific to any one class.

[Chronos]

Skill test prerequisites are an optional rule, or in other words a potential house rule your DM can choose to use. But if we're going into the realm of houserules, literally everything is possible.

And illumian is my favorite early-entry method, too. It's one of the few that lets you focus on either side (most early-entry tricks only work on the arcane side), and so far as I know it's the only one that applies to both sides at once, at least without tricks like Alternate Spell Source.

[Curmudgeon]

Also, Precocious Apprentice may require arcane casting, but the spell and slot it gives is not specific to any one class.
It's specific to a spell from a school of magic you have access to, when you've only got access to a single arcane spellcasting class. You have no ability to choose a spell that isn't accessible.

[Andezzar]

Aren't the schools of magic Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy and Transmutation? What does that have to do with whether a spell is arcane or divine? A generalist wizard has access to all schools, so any second level spell (e.g. Zone of Truth, which is an Enchantment) would be appropriate. Not that it helps much, since, as soon as you gain the ability to cast 2nd level spells, the spell slot would become a regular spell slot which no longer allows preparation and casting of that extra spell.

[Curmudgeon]

Aren't the schools of magic Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy and Transmutation? What does that have to do with whether a spell is arcane or divine?
Accessibility is the relevant restriction, not the school. You must necessarily be an arcane spellcaster to take Precocious Apprentice. That means you don't have access to any divine spellcasting, and at that time can't pick a 2nd-level spell from any but your single arcane spellcasting class. A spell only has a level in conjunction with a class. If you had access to Conjuration as a Wizard, you still couldn't pick Cure Light Wounds because it's not a 2nd-level spell for you. The fact that it's a 2nd-level spell for a Ranger is irrelevant, as is the fact that it's a 1st-level spell for a bunch of other classes. As a Wizard, it's not a 2nd-level (or any other level) spell.

There are also class restrictions at issue.
A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

[Ruethgar]

Use the level one multiclass rules to be a Cleric/Wizard. Access to both an arcane and a divine source to fuel your Animalistic Power(or some other spell on both lists at the same level). Also, as school of magic is a defined term and cares not for arcane or divine, having access to a school is only a function of wizard specialization with no other limiting factors on what class the spell needs to be taken from(yay trapsmith).

[HolyDraconus]

Accessibility is the relevant restriction, not the school.
... SCHOOL of magic you have access to... I don't see what you're talking about, by RAW. Last I checked, schools are shared between divine and arcane, and the spell(s) in question are derived from your Master anyway, so it waves away the "well you're a first level char, so you don't know any second level spells anyway" nonsense. NO WHERE in the feat description does it mention the spell(s) must be arcane, or cast as arcane, NOR does it mention anyway that you can't stack the feat and pick a different spell. It simply says pick a spell from a SCHOOL you have access to. By RAW.

There are also class restrictions at issue. By RAW, no there isn't. Its cheese, agreed, but the class in question is MT. Not like its any different from the VS+Highten Spell shenanigans.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't see what you're talking about, by RAW.
I'll try to simplify, then. How are you picking a 2nd-level spell? A spell has no level without an associated class. You've only got one class. There's nothing in Precocious Apprentice which lets you pick a class.

[Ruethgar]

At level 1 you can have two classes though.

[HolyDraconus]

I'll try to simplify, then. How are you picking a 2nd-level spell? A spell has no level without an associated class. You've only got one class. There's nothing in Precocious Apprentice which lets you pick a class.

By going " hmm... I have ACCESS to this SCHOOL of magic, so I will ask my MASTER to teach me a SPELL from THIS SCHOOL of magic." nothing in PA requires you to even pick a class. That is correct. Nothing in it even says YOU are supposed to know the spell first hand, just your master. Nothing in it says that the spell chosen MUST be from YOUR class list. Hell, the opening statement to the feat is
Your master has shown you the basics of a spell beyond the NORMAL limits of your EXPERIENCE and TRAINING . Its there in black and white that the feat is allowing you to do things you aren't normally capable of. You can rule 0 that it doesn't work cause the Master doesn't know or have access to the spells, but by RAW nothing is preventing you from picking Cure Moderate Wounds (Conj) and Flaming Sphere (Envo) and picking up a second wiz level coupled with a level of clr to dance your merry way into MT at lvl 4.

[Callin]

Uncanny Trickster to progress MT wouldnt hurt. Thats two more spellcasting levels over 3.

[Curmudgeon]

By going " hmm... I have ACCESS to this SCHOOL of magic, so I will ask my MASTER to teach me a SPELL from THIS SCHOOL of magic."
It's not your master's choice; it's yours.
Benefit: Choose one 2nd-level spell from a school of magic you have access to. You can't choose a 2nd-level spell unless it's a 2nd-level spell for you.

[HolyDraconus]

It's not your master's choice; it's yours. You can't choose a 2nd-level spell unless it's a 2nd-level spell for you.

No where in the spell does it say it must be a spell YOU CAN CAST, or that it must be a 2nd lvl spell FOR YOU. Hence the word "SCHOOL". You're arguing RAI at this point against RAW. And I admitted that its cheese. I even read where the author flat out said that it wasn't INTENDED to be used as such. BUT, RAW: it works. So DM fiat away.

[Curmudgeon]

No where in the spell does it say it must be a spell YOU CAN CAST, or that it must be a 2nd lvl spell FOR YOU.
If it's not a 2nd-level spell for you, how is it 2nd-level?

[Andezzar]

It is a 2nd level spell for someone.

[Curmudgeon]

It is a 2nd level spell for someone.
So why don't you just declare that Miracle is a 2nd-level spell for someone, and that's your spell choice?

[Grooke]

So why don't you just declare that Miracle is a 2nd-level spell for someone, and that's your spell choice?

While I don't agree with HolyDraconus, this is a bad argument. Miracle is obviously never listed as a 2nd lvl spell for any existing class, whereas Cure Moderate Wounds is.

[Andezzar]

So why don't you just declare that Miracle is a 2nd-level spell for someone, and that's your spell choice?Because to my knowledge there is no spell list of any class that has miracle as a 2nd level spell. If there were such a list, miracle would be a valid choice.

[Curmudgeon]

While I don't agree with HolyDraconus, this is a bad argument. Miracle is obviously never listed as a 2nd lvl spell for any existing class, whereas Cure Moderate Wounds is.
But what gives the Wizard with Precocious Apprentice the freedom to decide that Cure Moderate Wounds is a 2nd-level spell and not a 3rd-level spell? Because it's definitely 3rd-level for Paladins and Rangers, not 2nd-level. Again, a spell has no level without a specification of class, and Precocious Apprentice doesn't stipulate that you can pick a class.

[HolyDraconus]

But what gives the Wizard with Precocious Apprentice the freedom to decide that Cure Moderate Wounds is a 2nd-level spell and not a 3rd-level spell? Because it's definitely 3rd-level for Paladins and Rangers, not 2nd-level. Again, a spell has no level without a specification of class, and Precocious Apprentice doesn't stipulate that you can pick a class.

RAW, the school. It keeps going back to school. The only time a character is limited on which schools they can pick spells from is literally when they specialize or pick up some feat/class that overrides their ability to cast spells from a particular school. As is, PA simply states two things: having access to a school of magic that you want to pick a spell from, and that spell being level 2 for someone. It doesn't state you. It doesn't even state if it MUST be arcane. Just those two things. Reading the feat as it is written, there's nothing preventing you from doing the cheese of picking Cure Moderate Wounds and calling it a day. There's nothing preventing you of picking a spell like Darkness (evok) which appears on BOTH clr and wiz spell list at the EXACT same level and declaring "I'm using the clr version".

PA doesn't tell you to pick a spell from your spell list that's lvl 2, since, as a lvl 1 char, you don't KNOW any level 2 spells. So it not being selective to class doesn't apply here. The only things that matter is if you have access to the school the spell belongs to. That's it.

Again, this is cheese, and AGAIN, you can rule 0 it away, but RAI vs RAW is what you are trying to argue. RAW says yes, it works. RAI says it should not be able to.

[Grooke]

But what gives the Wizard with Precocious Apprentice the freedom to decide that Cure Moderate Wounds is a 2nd-level spell and not a 3rd-level spell? Because it's definitely 3rd-level for Paladins and Rangers, not 2nd-level. Again, a spell has no level without a specification of class, and Precocious Apprentice doesn't stipulate that you can pick a class.

Again, I agree. However, "I declare Miracle to be lvl 2 for someone" is still not a good argument since it is easy to understand the difference between CMW and Miracle unless imaginary homebrew classes with bonked spell lists are considered RAW.

[Curmudgeon]

Again, I agree. However, "I declare Miracle to be lvl 2 for someone" is still not a good argument ...
Agreed. Consider the Miracle point withdrawn.

[Lathund]

As is, PA simply states two things: having access to a school of magic that you want to pick a spell from, and that spell being level 2 for someone. It doesn't state you. It doesn't even state if it MUST be arcane.

It doesn't say 'level 2 for someone'. It just says 'level 2'. Judging by other material, if Wizards had intended the meaning to be as HolyDraconus wants it to be, they would've added a remark like 'level 2 for any one spellcasting class' or something.

'Level 2 for someone' is not RAW. 'Level 2' is RAW, and as such, it could be argued to be ambiguous if you really desire to bend the rules to your own pleasure.

Why do they mention the school? I'd say that this is because the writers wanted to make clear that this feat doesn't allow you to pick a spell from a forbidden school. Not to allow crazy cross-class casting.

[HolyDraconus]

Judging by other material, if Wizards had intendedI will stop you right there. I said multiple times now that its arguing RAI vs RAW. And I said several times that RAI it should NOT be able to work. Especially when the author of the feat even stated as such. But I also said RAW it DOES. Which boils down to however the DM wishes to run it. But if you are going strictly by RAW, then, by RAW, there is nothing preventing you from doing the cheese that was outlined earlier in this thread.

[Grooke]

It doesn't say 'level 2 for someone'. It just says 'level 2'. Judging by other material, if Wizards had intended the meaning to be as HolyDraconus wants it to be, they would've added a remark like 'level 2 for any one spellcasting class' or something.

Like Curmudgeon said, a spell's level only exists with regards to the class that casts it (to disprove this, please link any single spell that has a level not precede by a class)

[torrasque666]

At level 1 you can have two classes though.

I've never heard of that outside of Gestalt before. Can you cite the book and preferably page?

[Andezzar]

Like Curmudgeon said, a spell's level only exists with regards to the class that casts it (to disprove this, please link any single spell that has a level not precede by a class)It is unnecessary to find a spell level without a class name preceding it. Those names are there because usually you need to select spells that you could cast, but Precocious Apprentice requires you to select a spell that you could not normally cast.

[nyjastul69]

I've never heard of that outside of Gestalt before. Can you cite the book and preferably page?

I believe he is referring to the apprentice rules from the 3.0 DMG. I can't cite a page number because I can't find my 3.0 DMG. IIRC, it wasn't 2 full classes worth of abilities. They mixed and matched them somewhat. Sorry, I can't more precise than that.

[Chronos]

You could also qualify for Mystic Theurge as a single-classes shi'ar, though it wouldn't do you much good. Or you could qualify via shi'ar, and take a one level dip in some other spellcasting class (arcane or divine), and use MT to advance both.

[Andezzar]

It's Sha'ir.

[HolyDraconus]

My point stands. The feat doesnt restrict any further than what it says. It doesnt specify class, or type of spell, only school. It doesnt specify that you should be able to cast it, or even if you are able to eventually cast 2nd level spells that you must be able to cast it. It does not specify that the spell derived from it must be arcane. It does specify that while you still have the spell you have to pass a check to cast it. It does specify that the spell must be 2nd level. It does not specify for whom, or even you. By RAW, I see nothing preventing it from being an early entry trick.

[Troacctid]

My point stands. The feat doesnt restrict any further than what it says. It doesnt specify class, or type of spell, only school. It doesnt specify that you should be able to cast it, or even if you are able to eventually cast 2nd level spells that you must be able to cast it. It does not specify that the spell derived from it must be arcane. It does specify that while you still have the spell you have to pass a check to cast it. It does specify that the spell must be 2nd level. It does not specify for whom, or even you. By RAW, I see nothing preventing it from being an early entry trick.

Once you become able to cast 2nd level spells, you lose the benefit of the feat that allows you to cast 2nd level spells, thus disqualifying you from early entry.

[Lathund]

I will stop you right there. I said multiple times now that its arguing RAI vs RAW. And I said several times that RAI it should NOT be able to work. Especially when the author of the feat even stated as such. But I also said RAW it DOES. Which boils down to however the DM wishes to run it. But if you are going strictly by RAW, then, by RAW, there is nothing preventing you from doing the cheese that was outlined earlier in this thread.

Alright, second attempt:

---


As is, PA simply states two things: having access to a school of magic that you want to pick a spell from, and that spell being level 2 for someone. It doesn't state you. It doesn't even state if it MUST be arcane.

It doesn't say 'level 2 for someone'. It just says 'level 2'. 'Level 2 for someone' is not RAW. 'Level 2' is RAW.

You then interpret this to mean that you can select any spell that is level 2 for someone, but I for one wouldn't have the heart to call that RAW.

[HolyDraconus]

Once you become able to cast 2nd level spells, you lose the benefit of the feat that allows you to cast 2nd level spells, thus disqualifying you from early entry.
Once you are able to cast 2nd level spells by RAW, in the feat description, you keep the slot that the spell previously took. The feat is still providing a benefit. You just lose THAT ability of the feat. That being the specific spell that you must make a check to use. Being now capable of casting 2nd level spells naturally you can use that slot to do that... so no, it doesnt just go away.

Alright, second attempt:

---



It doesn't say 'level 2 for someone'. It just says 'level 2'. 'Level 2 for someone' is not RAW. 'Level 2' is RAW.

You then interpret this to mean that you can select any spell that is level 2 for someone, but I for one wouldn't have the heart to call that RAW.
It is what it is. The feat does not state class in any form of the spell's selection. By RAW it can't say you, since you being level 1 don't know any 2nd level spells. But it could say "of the class..." or something along those lines to limit it. However, it does not. By RAW, that limit isn't there. Thats how the feat was written. You can rule it as you feel, but then if you are limiting the feat you arent ruling as RAW.

[Lathund]

Once you are able to cast 2nd level spells by RAW, in the feat description, you keep the slot that the spell previously took. The feat is still providing a benefit. You just lose THAT ability of the feat. That being the specific spell that you must make a check to use. Being now capable of casting 2nd level spells naturally you can use that slot to do that... so no, it doesnt just go away.

It is what it is. The feat does not state class in any form of the spell's selection. By RAW it can't say you, since you being level 1 don't know any 2nd level spells. But it could say "of the class..." or something along those lines to limit it. However, it does not. By RAW, that limit isn't there. Thats how the feat was written. You can rule it as you feel, but then if you are limiting the feat you arent ruling as RAW.

You may have a point actualy. In fact, following your logic, you could enter Mystic Theurge as a Wiz 1 with 2x PA. You simply choose one 2nd level wizard spell and one 2nd level cleric spell; no need for divine class levels. How? Well, first of all, nowhere does it say that you can take PA only once, so you can take it multiple times. That's just RAW, right? Secondly, you can select a spell from outside your class list, as you argue. Thirdly: it doesn't say that you have to cast this obtained cleric spell as an arcane spell, so you can cast it as a divine spell. Problem solved!

To be a bit more serious: let's not forget 'specific trumps general'. That is: the general rules always apply unless they are trumped by the text. What the general case is, has already been argued by Curmudgeon: a spell doesn't have a level in and of itself, but only has a level for a specific class. This feat does not state class in any way; we can agree about that. As such, the general rule about a spell's level has not been trumped. Therefore, Curmudgeon's point still stands.

[Andezzar]

You may have a point actualy. In fact, following your logic, you could enter Mystic Theurge as a Wiz 1 with 2x PA. You simply choose one 2nd level wizard spell and one 2nd level cleric spell; no need for divine class levels. How? Well, first of all, nowhere does it say that you can take PA only once, so you can take it multiple times. That's just RAW, right? Secondly, you can select a spell from outside your class list, as you argue. Thirdly: it doesn't say that you have to cast this obtained cleric spell as an arcane spell, so you can cast it as a divine spell. Problem solved!No, that's not how it works:
If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description. In general, having a feat twice is the same as having it once.Precocious Apprentice has no rule saying it stacks with itself. So taking the feat more than once does not help.

[Lathund]

No, that's not how it works: Precocious Apprentice has no rule saying it stacks with itself. So taking the feat more than once does not help.

Why yes, but we're not observing those silly general rules, are we now? There's cheese at stake, sir! We're also not observing that a spell always only have levels associated with classes or that wizards cast all their wizard spells as arcane. Are you paying attention?

I do need to rephrase my remark a bit though: when I said "nowhere does it say that you can take PA only once," I should've said "nowhere in the tekst of PA does it say that you can take PA only once."

[Rebel7284]

I personally am a fan of Sorcerer 2/Favored Soul 1/Mythic Theurge 10.

Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell qualify on both sides.

[Andezzar]

The difference is that Precocious Apprentice trumps the general rule for spells, but it does not trump the general rule for feats. It tells us to select a spell you would not be allowed to select otherwise. So now the feat needs to provide all restrictions on that selection process. The only restriction to the choice is that the spell must be 2nd level and of a school the character has access to. A non-specialist wizard has access to all schools.

[Lathund]

The difference is that Precocious Apprentice trumps the general rule for spells, but it does not trump the general rule for feats. It tells us to select a spell you would not be allowed to select otherwise. So now the feat needs to provide all restrictions on that selection process. The only restriction to the choice is that the spell must be 2nd level and of a school the character has access to. A non-specialist wizard has access to all schools.

It seems my sarcasm got lost somewhere between keyboard and screen, sorry. No, of course a feat doesn't need to provide all restrictions that are already covered by the general rules. Of course you can't effectively take PA more than once, because there is a general rule covering that. A very explicit and quotable one even, as you demonstrated. But the same is true for other general rules: they needn't be repeated to apply. And one such general rule is that a spell doesn't just have a level, it always has a level for a specific class. Since PA doesn't mention class but it does mention level, class is apparently implied. Likewise, since it isn't mentioned if the obtained spell is cast as arcane or divine, this too is implied and covered by the general rules: arcane caster, therefore arcane spells.

[Andezzar]

These implications are far from obvious.

Please quote the rule saying that a spell does not have a level without a class. More importantly quote the rule that the only level relevant for Precocious Apprentice is the one associated with the class the character taking the feat has.

None of those statements are false:
Lesser Restoration is a 1st level arcane spell
Lesser Restoration is a 1st level divine spell
Lesser Restoration is 2nd level divine spell

They may be incomplete as they do not specify a class, but neither does Precocious Apprentice explicitly require a certain class.

[Troacctid]

Once you are able to cast 2nd level spells by RAW, in the feat description, you keep the slot that the spell previously took. The feat is still providing a benefit. You just lose THAT ability of the feat. That being the specific spell that you must make a check to use. Being now capable of casting 2nd level spells naturally you can use that slot to do that... so no, it doesnt just go away.

I didn't say it just goes away. I said the relevant part of it goes away. You no longer have the ability to cast the 2nd level spell you chose. All you have is this spell slot, which, since you don't know any 2nd level arcane spells, is only really good for casting 1st level spells.

Your interpretation also relies on the first half of the feat having literally no effect at all--you'd completely ignore the part where you choose a spell and make spellcraft checks to cast it once per day, and skip straight to "Extra Slot, but for 2nd level slots only" instead. I don't think most DMs would go for that.