Avatar: The Last Airbender

[Human Paragon 3]

Great, great show. Anyone who hasn't seen this should check it out. It's on Nickelodeon, but it is easy to apreciate for people of all ages. Great action, hilarious comedy and good character development.

[Green Bean]

I'm a fan. Can you tell? :smalltongue:

Seriously though, it is a truly awesome show. The first time I watched the show it was the hour-long premier, and by the end of it, I was shouting at the TV because I wanted more.

[Emperor Tippy]

They need to come out with season 3.

[Glaivemaster]

I've seen a few episodes from the first series, and I thought it was great. I should really watch some more some time

[Mephibosheth]

I too love that show, and have said as much on these forums in the past. In fact, myself and some other members have even gone so far as to attempt to translate the bending disciplines into D&D base classes. Check out here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28763) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35428) for more details! The project is mostly , but is good reading nonetheless. Also, if anyone feels like DMing a pbp playtesting game, I'm sure you'd find no shortage of takers.

Mephibosheth

[Jerthanis]

I've seen parts of it, and it seems okay. It reminds me of Exalted, and by reminds me of, I of course mean, "Is clearly is clearly inspired by/draws from the same inspirations as Exalted"

One thing that annoys me is that it seems to have a higher "throwaway love interest" episodes to normal episode ratio than Xena, and that's saying something.

[Innis Cabal]

its a good show, one of the better shows on nick. I just wish we had Zim back

[Agatsuma]

Easily the best show on Nick that is still being made. Granted, that does not say a lot, but it is a great show. The animation is great, the story is intriguing, and it is infinitely quotable.

[Nerd-o-rama]

One of the best animated shows on the air, certainly. It's a kid's show that can be watched by all ages (as opposed to the similarly popular Invader Zim, which was definitely targeted toward adults, despite being a Nickelodeon show.) The attention to detail and the writing more than make up for some of the annoying clichés that are bound to pop up.

Somehow, what appeared to be a trite attempt to cash in on the popularity of children's animé turns out to be an incredibly good show.

[Cybren]

Now if only they'd produce the next season..

[Green Bean]

Now if only they'd produce the next season..

They're working on it as we speak, but apparently it's going to be the last one :smallfrown:

[Human Paragon 3]

H_V, nice avatar. Zuko is a bit Miko-y isn't he? The difference- I'm sure he'll come around, Miko not so much.

The Guru was on Nicktoons network yesterday- good episode. The part where Toph figures out how to bend metal was... possibly the most badass thing ever on that show. She OWNS those two guys then rockets way on an earth slide like she's Neo or something. Dang, badass.

Season 3 is taking forever to come out, unfortunately.

[Aotrs Commander]

As I understand it, they only planned a three-series run. Given Nicklodeon's fairly frequent dropping of shows because they are asshats (Zim, Danny Phantom, Fairly Oddparents), I can only say that its a good thing (since we will get to see the end of the story!)

I think Avatar is easily the best cartoon Nick has ever done, and one of the best period. I watched one or two episodes when it first came out, but because I was watching lots of other things at the time and it was on at an odd time of day for me, I didn't watch many. In fact, I specifically avoided watching it so that it would all be new when the DVD came out. And it was worth the wait! (Roll on season 2 season set!)

I rank Avatar among the best of the current generations of cartoons, ranking up alongside W.i.t.c.h (which criminally, doesn't look like it will get a third season) and Justice League (which, made what, five seasons, three of them half-strength).

And Naruto and Pokemon, overall, though they could hardly be called new (even though Naruto is to the UK!)



I am given to understand they want to do a live-action version, but James Cameron is trying to stop them, since he wants to use the name Avatar for one of his lame-ass films*. Git.



*I say lame-ass, as they are in proportional comparison to the sheer Awesomeness of a live-action Avatar, not as in overall lameness, since some of them are very not-lame. He was responcible for Terminator 1 and 2 after all. On the other hand, he is responsible for Titanic, which I will hold against for the remainder of time.

[Human Paragon 3]

A 4th season of Avatar isn't ruled out. In fact I'd say it's (maybe a little less than entirely) likely, especially given the show's popularity. Just because Aang is going to beat the fire lord doesn't mean there won't be more adventures after season 3. The world of Avatar is pretty wacky, and tons of crazy stuff could happen.

I have mixed feelings about the Avatar Live Action movie- 1 because I'd prefer an animated movie (2d, like the cartoon but with higher production values) and 2, because it's being directed by M. Night Shamalayn.

What a twist!

[Dib]

YAY!!! :biggrin:

Zim=best!!!

Avatar=very close second!!

I too would prefer the movie to be animated rather than live-action... And James Cameron can go eat his *%^$ £$% if he thinks he's gonna stop it just so he can have his way... I don't care if he made terminator!!

I want the third season so bad now! When does the second come out on DVD (in the uk)? And what would the movie be about anyway?

[Green Bean]

H_V, nice avatar. Zuko is a bit Miko-y isn't he? The difference- I'm sure he'll come around, Miko not so much.

The Guru was on Nicktoons network yesterday- good episode. The part where Toph figures out how to bend metal was... possibly the most badass thing ever on that show. She OWNS those two guys then rockets way on an earth slide like she's Neo or something. Dang, badass.

Season 3 is taking forever to come out, unfortunately.

Thanks! Though, really, I'm hoping for the exact opposite of what you are. I think Zuko has far too much bad guy potential to join the good side, and I'm hoping for a Miko redemption. Oh well, it take all kinds. :smallwink:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Personally, here's my theory on Zuko as of the end of season 2:
He's either
1) The biggest idiot in the universe for trusting Azula, or
2) Got a plan to bring her down and usurp her spot on the royal inheritance chain.

This puts him as either a harmless flunky the good guys can later bring to their side (which Katara already tried in the finale, so it might get old), or regaining his place as main antagonist in the future. Although with the second theory, it's possible that he'll end up on the Fire Nation's throne by the end of season 3, and he may choose benevolent dictatorship, peace treaties, etc. once he gets what he wants, which boils down to simple respect.
And yeah, the main story arc of "Aang vs. Fire Lord Ozai" should be over by the end of next season, as he'll have mastered the elements, and it'll be the end of summer if the time scale stays consistent. There's no reason that the series can't continue after that if the producers (and writers) want it to.

[Earthstar_Fungus]

I just hope it doesn't jump the shark like "The Fairly Odd Parents."

[homerjay]

I too love the Show and have created Avatar the last air bender d20 rules found here (http://www.freewebs.com/zerian-the-keeper/avatard20.htm). I don't really know what else to say other then it is a GREAT show! Check it out if you get a chance!

Yes the live action is still slated to Film, an interview with Avatars creators and there thoughts on M. Night Shyamalan can be found here (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=3&id=40610)

[Obsidian Blade]

I love the show, but the way they've manipulated Zuko's character in the finale really pisses me off. Here's a good image that shows what they did:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/44194382/?q=Zuko+defends+himself&qh=boost%3Apopular+age_sigma%3A24h+age_scale%3A5

[Firestar27]

Chances are, either Zuko or the Uncle (forgot his name) will teach Aang Firebending. Zuko would be interesting, but I would rather have the Uncle teach him. But if the Uncle teaches him, then Zuko will get angry when Aang masters it faster, just like Katara did. Also, the show has hinted at Zuko being a possible friend of Aang if they weren't on opposite sides of the war before. There was an episode where Aang directly asked Zuko if they would be friends if it weren't for the war. So Zuko will probably be the one to teach Aang.
"What?! This tea is just burnt leaf juice!"
"Uncle, all tea is that."
"Nephew! How can you say that?"
Classic!:smallbiggrin:

[Deckmaster]

Well, I always had the impression, especially as the second season wore on, that Zuko would end up joining the Aang Gang (as I call them) when the season ended. So...color me shocked. Now that I've had time to think about it, the main reason that they went in a different direction was probably dramatic. With only three seasons planned, they probably followed the typical sort of three-act dramatic structure in planning the whole thing out. And as anyone who's seen The Empire Strikes Back will tell you, Act II should end on a down note. If Zuko had attacked Azula instead of Aang, they probably would have been able to defeat her and save Ba Sing Se from being captured by the Fire Nation. If they did that, then the whole series would have been resolved in a few episodes; Zuko and/or Iroh teaching Aang firebending, Aang mastering the Avatar State, the Earth Kingdom invading the Fire Nation on the Day of Black Sun, Aang taking on the Fire Lord; that's maybe 4 episodes. Now, the Aang Gang will have to spend most of the next season recovering from this loss before they can even think of invading the Fire Nation. Plus, it makes sense to me that Zuko still hasn't gotten over his desire to be respected by his father. Unless he hears from his father's own lips that he will never respect him, he will probably continue to operate under the false notion that he can earn it somehow.

[Human Paragon 3]

Is it just me, or did that interview with the writers seem a little "auto-piloty"? Like they had some sort of canned responses:

We are thrilled that there is going to be a feature film of Avatar and that M. Night Shyamalan is writing, producing and directing it," co-creator Mike DiMartino said in an interview.

Dunno.

Looking at the d20 rules... now.

[Advance Strat..]

avatar is easily one of the best, if not the best, nickelodeon show on right now. Like someone else said though that doesn't take much.

I recently got both seasons of avatar, and the entire series of zim onto my ipod and had a very nice marathon :D

I have a few predictions on what will happen in season three, but they're all speculative, and pretty situational and counts on everything working out in order.

I always assumed there would be 4 seasons to the show, one for each element. Doesn't seem right to end it on just three.

[Green Bean]

I always assumed there would be 4 seasons to the show, one for each element. Doesn't seem right to end it on just three.

I think that someone from the show said that there will be three seasons (Book of Water, Book of Earth, and Book of Fire) because the 'Book of Air' was Aang's childhood.

[Advance Strat..]

well yeah i knew fire would be the 3rd season. I wasn't sure what they'd do with the 4th one, I figured it would be a season where they would wrap things up, and tie up loose ends, or they would figure out a way to hint at a sequel series, which would eventually fall into the new series a year thing that shows like power rangers and pokemon fell into, turning it into a shell of it's former self....

[Reinforcements]

I too love the Show and have created Avatar the last air bender d20 rules found here (http://www.freewebs.com/zerian-the-keeper/avatard20.htm). I don't really know what else to say other then it is a GREAT show! Check it out if you get a chance!

Yes the live action is still slated to Film, an interview with Avatars creators and there thoughts on M. Night Shyamalan can be found here (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=3&id=40610)
GOD DAMMIT

[averagejoe]

well yeah i knew fire would be the 3rd season. I wasn't sure what they'd do with the 4th one, I figured it would be a season where they would wrap things up, and tie up loose ends, or they would figure out a way to hint at a sequel series, which would eventually fall into the new series a year thing that shows like power rangers and pokemon fell into, turning it into a shell of it's former self....

The story of the cabbage guy! AKA the best guy ever.

[Advance Strat..]

MY... oh forget it.

:D

[Wraithy]

yaay geokineticism!

[Dib]

I love the show, but the way they've manipulated Zuko's character in the finale really pisses me off. Here's a good image that shows what they did:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/44194382/?q=Zuko+defends+himself&qh=boost%3Apopular+age_sigma%3A24h+age_scale%3A5

:biggrin: third speech bubble was my favourite! :biggrin:

[Holocron Coder]

Love the show as well :) Can't wait for the third season. I've only heard vague times for it, which stinks.

I always figured a Book 4: Air, would be nice to be written as wrapping up how the Air Nomads don't die out, etc. Have this whole secret plot going on that will probably never be written >.>

[Green Bean]

Love the show as well :) Can't wait for the third season. I've only heard vague times for it, which stinks.

I always figured a Book 4: Air, would be nice to be written as wrapping up how the Air Nomads don't die out, etc. Have this whole secret plot going on that will probably never be written >.>

Apparently, Book 4: Air is Aang's childhood. They're sticking with three seasons. even though I wish they won't :smallfrown:

[Dib]

Well maybe they'll fail to defeat the fire lord before the end of the eclipse and then get their asses kiked and captured (once again) when Sozin's Comet arrives and then there'll be opening for a book 4...

[Deckmaster]

If there is no Book 4, maybe Nickelodeon will greenlight a spinoff that takes place sometime later with different characters. Hopefully not accompanied by a drop in quality.

[Green Bean]

If there is no Book 4, maybe Nickelodeon will greenlight a spinoff that takes place sometime later with different characters. Hopefully not accompanied by a drop in quality.

*snicker* *snort* *pointing and laughing*


Oh, you're serious...


*snicker* :smallbiggrin:

[drawingfreak]

If there is no Book 4, maybe Nickelodeon will greenlight a spinoff that takes place sometime later with different characters. Hopefully not accompanied by a drop in quality.
If there is to be a spin-off, I would suggest this:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/52615635/?qo=40&q=by%3Arufftoon+in%3Ascraps&qh=sort%3Atime

[Deckmaster]

*snicker* *snort* *pointing and laughing*


Oh, you're serious...


*snicker* :smallbiggrin:

Right. Sorry. What was I thinking?

[Deckmaster]

Sorry for the double posting, but I figured since season 3 has started it's time for a little thread necromancy.

I was wondering what everyone thought of the latest episode, since I don't think there's any other thread discussing it yet.

Also, another new episode tonight!

[Nerd-o-rama]

To borrow from LittleKuriboh:

Sokka: "Blah blah blah exposition blah"
Aang: "Blah blah blah Aangst blah"
*Fight Scene!*
*OMGOzai'sface...is not very threatening*
Zuko: "Blah blah blah?"
Azula: "Blah."

Still, now that they've gotten the exposition and all-too-rushed character development for Aang and Katara out of the way, the next episode looks significantly more awesome.

[Attilargh]

Awakening wasn't too bad for a piece of exposition. I like how Aang looks with hair. But how did they find him in the end?

3.02 is something of a comedy episode. (Why do I know this? It got leaked.) Main themes are dancing and schoolperson's life in the Fire Nation. Aang cheers up, relationships progress. Also, Zuzu gets character development. Not a bad episode, really, but it doesn't do much for the Fearsome Foursome. Also, no real fight scene.

For the record, I've come to the conclusion that I don't like Azula. She makes Zuko look bad in comparison by being so Dangerously Genre Savvy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DangerouslyGenreSavvy) and clever and always one step ahead and stuff. Bleh. Zuko needs to shape up and finally start using that head of his.

[Job]

Sokka: "Blah blah blah exposition blah"
Aang: "Blah blah blah Aangst blah"
*Fight Scene!*
*OMGOzai'sface...is not very threatening*
Zuko: "Blah blah blah?"
Azula: "Blah."

Still, now that they've gotten the exposition and all-too-rushed character development for Aang and Katara out of the way, the next episode looks significantly more awesome.

I would say this analysis is not entirely fair, and I’m willing to give a few passes for a show whose internal consistency is very much above par, but then again I’ve been fed-up with the awkward, predictable, Aang/Katara relationship since before it began.

3.02 was just good fun, and a little bit of an animation/choreograph exposition.

(Btw, Avatar fan in his early twenties, totally not creepy)

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yeah, I liked this episode. It was pretty, informative, and quite good comedy. Like I said, the preceding expositionfest was necessary to clear the way for more fun episodes like this. I have to wonder about all the random slow-mo-awesoming-ups though. Belated 300 parody?

[drawingfreak]

Yesterday's episode was about the depth of which the influence of the Fire King goes. He is in total control. Children are fed lies, kept restrained, and practically brainwashed into thinking that they are the good guys in this war. The government makes sure they grow into little, unquestioning Fire nation drones.

But Aang was right in how the first step is to plant the seeds of doubt into the younger generations as they will be the future of the Fire Nation. I think his little "party" is going to have a very significant impact on the people of that village.

[Attilargh]

The government makes sure they grow into little, unquestioning Fire nation drones.
It is interesting to compare the Fire Nation's propaganda to what the Dai Li had going on in Ba Sing Se. No wonder Azula likes them so much.

[CrazedGoblin]

i love that show its so great :smallbiggrin:

[blackspeeker]

Love this show, but that last episode made me think of footloose, in a very good way.

[Attilargh]

Would anyone happen to know how long it usually takes for an episode to appear on TurboNick after it has aired? Attilargh wants his Avatar fix, badly, and the sneak peek isn't quite helping. :smallfrown:

Ædit: Not so long, apparently. Now, if only the site wouldn't jam like it does.

ÆditII: So, the Painted Lady. I might accidentally spoil something, so read at your own peril. (Duh. :smalltongue: )

Not a bad episode, but fairly unimpressive. Saw a couple of things coming way in advance, and neither the aesop nor the ending were too surprising either. Plus, no Zuko. On the bright side, it reinforced Katara's status as The Messiah of the show, and that Sokka has a heart after all, and... Well, I guess that was it.

[Job]

Yeah they normally have it on Turbonick very quickly.

The last episode was rather odd, and had a great many more inconsistencies then normal. Also it does bring to mind Aang’s connection to the spirit world, for being the “bridge” he does have very few interactions with it. I hope they will have more on the issue soon, in addition to giving the full story on Iroh’s visit to the spirit realm.

[averagejoe]

Yeah they normally have it on Turbonick very quickly.

The last episode was rather odd, and had a great many more inconsistencies then normal. Also it does bring to mind Aang’s connection to the spirit world, for being the “bridge” he does have very few interactions with it. I hope they will have more on the issue soon, in addition to giving the full story on Iroh’s visit to the spirit realm.

I disagree on your last point. It's a mistake to give the full story on every little hinted-at substory in the show, a mistake many long-running anime make. It's practically impossible to truely build a world, so a lot of the illusion relies on the things that we aren't told; the fans assisting in the world building with imagination, as it were.

[Nerd-o-rama]

By your powers combined...I am THE PAINTED LADY!

Seriously.

[Attilargh]

Hah, that sums the episode up pretty well. You win one omniscient owl-spirit-being.

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/7/75/Avatar-O_rly_Owl.jpg

[Green Bean]

I love that picture in ways that are illegal in several countries. :smallbiggrin:

[Moff Chumley]

Just have to interject now- Iroh is prolly the funniest character in Nick history. Just wish they hadmore of him in season 3...

[Green Bean]

Just have to interject now- Iroh is prolly the funniest character in Nick history. Just wish they hadmore of him in season 3...

Iroh is awesome. It's a shame about what happened to Mako, though... :smallfrown:

[Job]

I disagree on your last point. It's a mistake to give the full story on every little hinted-at substory in the show, a mistake many long-running anime make. It's practically impossible to truely build a world, so a lot of the illusion relies on the things that we aren't told; the fans assisting in the world building with imagination, as it were.

What you say is true, to a point. For instance one does not need to know the exact exploits of every past avatar featured or what exactly happened to Zoko’s mother. However I would submit that a few sentences and a brief visual concerning Iroh’s “legendary” journey to the spirit world does not do justice to an event that without a doubt affected this man profoundly. Iroh should speak a bit on the manner at some point in the future (i.e. how or why he went there or what he learned) such a conversation would give a great deal of insight

[lamguin]

I've really got to start by saying that I love this series. It's wonderful on all fronts. Great animation, action, dialogue, and wonderful timing on the humor.

Ok. A rumor to start.

I read somewhere (can't find it again for the life of me) that Nick has already signed on for a total of 6 seasons. 3 on the current storyline, 3 on a storyline in the same world to be released later.

[/rumor]

The plot follows the Star Wars template.

Part 1 had Luke (Aang) make some friends, learn some force (bending), and win a huge climactic battle.

Part 2 had more force (bending) learning, Luke (Aang) had a vision of Leia (Katara) in trouble and ran off to save her before finishing his training, and a betrayal (Zuko) that lead to a defeat to the good guys.

Part 3 had the big reveal of the Emperor (Ozai), the first major plot point will be rescuing Han (Uncle Iroh [<3 Uncle]) from Jabba's Palace (The Fire Nation prison). And it will end when Luke (Aang) uses the force to blow up the second Death Star (the comet). 5 bucks says that Sokka says "It's a trap."

Now, if I'm right, that would mean that the hermit guy is Yoda, and he's going to die. Zuko would be the Vader analogy here, and he'll come over to the good guys right at the end, probably after getting his face melted by Ozai. He's probably going to die in the finale.

Now. The filler episodes are handled better in Avatar than in most other shows I've watched. There isn't enough plot to fill 60 half hour episodes with. So, they make it so that every episode has something to offer, not necessarily something huge, but some plot point is added. The big action happens in the last 3 or 4 episodes of the season.

Edit: That's no meteorite, it's a space station!

[Human Paragon 3]

What you say is true, to a point. For instance one does not need to know the exact exploits of every past avatar featured or what exactly happened to Zoko’s mother. However I would submit that a few sentences and a brief visual concerning Iroh’s “legendary” journey to the spirit world does not do justice to an event that without a doubt affected this man profoundly. Iroh should speak a bit on the manner at some point in the future (i.e. how or why he went there or what he learned) such a conversation would give a great deal of insight

I'm willing to bet that we WILL learn more about Iroh's journey to the spirit world as well as why he (and only he) seems to be able to see the spirits (like in Spring Solstice pt. 2), and frankly, I'm dying to find out. Iroh is one of the most interesting characters in the show.

On a related note, Buff Iroh rules! I have a feeling that soon he'll be kicking ass and taking names. Fire Nation names.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Regarding tonight's episode: why do swords always have to be made of meteor? And who are the White Lotus? An international association of Badass Old Guys? I'd join.

All I know is next episode = beach episode. With scary, scary women. Best filler ever? We shall see.

Plus, apparently there's going to be Plot happening with silent assassin guy, so I guess it's only a reference to common filler devices if it's not taking up the whole show.

[Attilargh]

Wind sword? Didn't see that coming. Also, buff Iroh is buff. And slightly scary.


Regarding tonight's episode: why do swords always have to be made of meteor?
Because having the materials drop on your doorstep is much more convenient than having to dig them up from the ground. Leaves room for a very nice fight scene. Plus, thunderbolt iron (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThunderboltIron) cuts steel. Ask anyone.


Beach episode with two emo teens? Best filler ever, period. Some plot sounds promising as well.

[Jerthanis]

I love Avatar, but I really wish they'd have gone with the more interesting (IMHO, I thought of it after all) relationship plotline for Katara/Aang where Aang, in that scene of his transformation into the Avatar state at the end of the 2nd season, had given up all feelings for Katara, and that upon regaining consciousness, would only have the vaguest of emotionless memories of the girl. The idea of Katara having to finally face her feelings for Aang by dealing with the fact that he no longer felt the same way would be much more interesting (again, IMHO) than the current, inevitable feeling of their "I'm clearly minorly jealous of you with the random fire nation girl, oh now we're dancing *Blush* *Blush* Yay!" relationship. My idea with this plot would be that by the end of the third season, he would've fallen in love with Katara all over again without regaining his previous feelings or memories and instead simply growing new feelings. In my mind, such a plot would underscore the fact that the characters truly felt romantic towards one another based on real compatibility and not first impressions and happenstance.

*Ahem* Pardon the obsessive Fanfic writer in me...

The episodes are so far so good, though I wasn't solid on the Painted Lady... nothing really felt right about it. I felt like the real moral that they should've went for was "Beware of unexpected consequences" and "Some actions which help people in the short term are more harmful in the long run."

Instead it was vaguely preachy about standing up for yourself, and acting rather than being a victim and also not polluting stuff. It just didn't ring true to me. I kept expecting Sokka to turn around and say, "No Katara, I didn't say we shouldn't stop and help because I'm heartless, but because their problems are bigger than us, and we simply cannot beat this problem into submission. Take down the factory, and they blame the villiage, exact punishments, and rebuild their factory... we don't help at all. Our only option is to hope they survive until we can stop the war... Then we can return when we can actually make a difference." Instead they acted without thinking, and then beat the problem into submission. They even made it seem like it was the townsfolk's own fault almost.

I'm also throwing my vote in with the "Azula stinks" opinion... she's just got too much of a hold on meta-dramatic information, and somehow just happens to know things she has no reason to know. The fact that Zuko is a terrible liar don't excuse her near omniscience shown in the 3rd season so far. Add to this that half the second season's big fights were basically just her "one-step-up-from-nameless henchmen" Ty-Lee and Mai, two of the most one note characters in the series (even more so than some single episode characters) beating up people who I liked more, and you get a character that jumps back and forth between the border separating "Villain I love to hate" and "Villain I wish would just die already"

Also, Does anyone else notice how similar Avatar is to the RPG setting Exalted? Pervasive spirit world, animism, elemental affinities, generational heroic spirit, heroes who can literally floor armies without noticeable effort, a central military dictatorship/empire which basically runs the world by colonizing and bullying other nations, who rose to power partly because the generational hero type got locked into a prison which was sunk into the ocean... it takes a bit of stretching and ignoring some of the more specific bits of flavor related to each setting, but they're VERY similar.

[averagejoe]

What you say is true, to a point. For instance one does not need to know the exact exploits of every past avatar featured or what exactly happened to Zoko’s mother. However I would submit that a few sentences and a brief visual concerning Iroh’s “legendary” journey to the spirit world does not do justice to an event that without a doubt affected this man profoundly. Iroh should speak a bit on the manner at some point in the future (i.e. how or why he went there or what he learned) such a conversation would give a great deal of insight

Fair enough, although I'd rather he'd speak about it than have an episode where we see him doing it. In fact, I wouldn't mind him seeing a few words about it, I have just found that episodes about past events which have only been mentioned till now tend to be bad no matter who is doing it.

Also, ever since Sokka's master mentioned that he should change his name to "Li," I've been thinking at some point there has to be a video montage of the two of them to the Tenacious D song, "Lee."

Edit: Can someone point to the episode(s) where Iroh mentions his journey, because I cannot remember this. Also, I read on TV tropes that sometime before "The Drill" episode, there were plans shown for a giant drill. I can't remember the episode, and it has been bugging the crap out of me. Thanks TV tropes.

[Rogue 7]

Haven't posted on here before, just want to say that this is one of my favorite shows. Enjoyed the last episode, good to see Sokka getting some love, but the idea that he can go from bumbling idiot to master swordsman in a day just struck me as bad. I know they're on a tight schedule, but still, one day? Give me a break.

[averagejoe]

Haven't posted on here before, just want to say that this is one of my favorite shows. Enjoyed the last episode, good to see Sokka getting some love, but the idea that he can go from bumbling idiot to master swordsman in a day just struck me as bad. I know they're on a tight schedule, but still, one day? Give me a break.

I find it to be even more implausable that Sokka JUST NOW NOTICED his general uselessness on the team. I mean, seriously.

[Job]

Iroh’s journey comes into play during the siege of the north episodes. The Admiral of the fire nation fleet is speaking to Iroh and mentions something about it; also we can infer that Iroh’s knowledge of the moon spirit and its importance to the bending balance is the result of some insight into the spirit world.

Sokka could be described as bumbling, but not necessarily an idiot. It would seem that Sokka is the most intelligent member of the troop and the one most capable of forming cohesive plans, a skill that has served them well. Its not so much he’s just now noticed he’s “useless” maybe just build up to courage to talk about it with his friends. This episode was inevitable however and I think they did a decent job, even if the training time was short (it was more then a day actually, but not by much, the writers unfortunately place a time restriction on themselves in the library).

Also the whole meteorite thing is rather cliché, been reading about it since what, the Redwall books in 6th grade?

[Solo]

Haven't posted on here before, just want to say that this is one of my favorite shows. Enjoyed the last episode, good to see Sokka getting some love, but the idea that he can go from bumbling idiot to master swordsman in a day just struck me as bad. I know they're on a tight schedule, but still, one day? Give me a break.

Sokka's been fighting for a while now, so he has experience in combat, just not with a sword. Its plausible that a lot of that experience carried over into the sword, enough to give him a chance with a master swordsman who was going easy on him.


I find it to be even more implausable that Sokka JUST NOW NOTICED his general uselessness on the team. I mean, seriously.

Denial, probably.

[Rogue 7]

Sokka's been fighting for a while now, so he has experience in combat, just not with a sword. Its plausible that a lot of that experience carried over into the sword, enough to give him a chance with a master swordsman who was going easy on him.

True, but most martial arts schools (heck, most anything that involved I do), spend a day going over the absolute basics- how to stand, how to hold the sword, etc. You may never swing the darn thing. Sokka's good, but the training style is flawed because of the needs of the show- no one masters anything in one day, if only because the teachers drag out the training.



Denial, probably.
But that's the thing- he *hasn't* been useless. He's the one who comes up with the plans, organizes the group, and generally tells them what to do. See the whole bit in the library, the drill (I think), and his dealings at the north pole. Sokka's a smart guy, that's his strength when compared to the others (not to call any of them stupid.)

[averagejoe]

But that's the thing- he *hasn't* been useless. He's the one who comes up with the plans, organizes the group, and generally tells them what to do. See the whole bit in the library, the drill (I think), and his dealings at the north pole. Sokka's a smart guy, that's his strength when compared to the others (not to call any of them stupid.)

Yeah, but in combat he just kinda hangs out and lets others do the work.

[Rogue 7]

Meh. Whatcha gonna do? Sokka's never going to be at the level of a bender.

[Winterwind]

Meh. Whatcha gonna do? Sokka's never going to be at the level of a bender.Mai and Ty Lee - Azulas two companions - are not benders either, yet they are way above the level of your average bender, so why shouldn't Sokka?

[Human Paragon 3]

I cannot wait for firebending Beach Volleyball. You shall rise from the ashes of your shame and defeat!

Good link, by the way. Very informative.

[Wolfgang]

I love Avatar, but I really wish they'd have gone with the more interesting (IMHO, I thought of it after all) relationship plotline for Katara/Aang where Aang, in that scene of his transformation into the Avatar state at the end of the 2nd season, had given up all feelings for Katara, and that upon regaining consciousness, would only have the vaguest of emotionless memories of the girl. The idea of Katara having to finally face her feelings for Aang by dealing with the fact that he no longer felt the same way would be much more interesting (again, IMHO) than the current, inevitable feeling of their "I'm clearly minorly jealous of you with the random fire nation girl, oh now we're dancing *Blush* *Blush* Yay!" relationship. My idea with this plot would be that by the end of the third season, he would've fallen in love with Katara all over again without regaining his previous feelings or memories and instead simply growing new feelings. In my mind, such a plot would underscore the fact that the characters truly felt romantic towards one another based on real compatibility and not first impressions and happenstance.

*Ahem* Pardon the obsessive Fanfic writer in me...

You're pardoned, because I agree. Unless things turn around quickly, they really wasted a lot of potential with that situation. What could have been a great epic tragedy (with some hope and a few really emotional scenes thrown in) is now just the stereotypical anime quasi-romance it was before. :smallannoyed:


The episodes are so far so good, though I wasn't solid on the Painted Lady... nothing really felt right about it. I felt like the real moral that they should've went for was "Beware of unexpected consequences" and "Some actions which help people in the short term are more harmful in the long run."

Instead it was vaguely preachy about standing up for yourself, and acting rather than being a victim and also not polluting stuff. It just didn't ring true to me. I kept expecting Sokka to turn around and say, "No Katara, I didn't say we shouldn't stop and help because I'm heartless, but because their problems are bigger than us, and we simply cannot beat this problem into submission. Take down the factory, and they blame the villiage, exact punishments, and rebuild their factory... we don't help at all. Our only option is to hope they survive until we can stop the war... Then we can return when we can actually make a difference." Instead they acted without thinking, and then beat the problem into submission. They even made it seem like it was the townsfolk's own fault almost.

I've noticed that with Books 1 and 2, the first set of episodes were a little rocky with some really good patches. Then, the quality ramped up considerably with only a few uneven patches. Judging from "Sokka's Master", which was fantastic, Book 3 will probably continue this trend. I couldn't resist an "oh, hell yeah" when Iroh took off his cloak. A part of me wanted to cheer.


I'm also throwing my vote in with the "Azula stinks" opinion... she's just got too much of a hold on meta-dramatic information, and somehow just happens to know things she has no reason to know. The fact that Zuko is a terrible liar don't excuse her near omniscience shown in the 3rd season so far. Add to this that half the second season's big fights were basically just her "one-step-up-from-nameless henchmen" Ty-Lee and Mai, two of the most one note characters in the series (even more so than some single episode characters) beating up people who I liked more, and you get a character that jumps back and forth between the border separating "Villain I love to hate" and "Villain I wish would just die already"

Also, Does anyone else notice how similar Avatar is to the RPG setting Exalted? Pervasive spirit world, animism, elemental affinities, generational heroic spirit, heroes who can literally floor armies without noticeable effort, a central military dictatorship/empire which basically runs the world by colonizing and bullying other nations, who rose to power partly because the generational hero type got locked into a prison which was sunk into the ocean... it takes a bit of stretching and ignoring some of the more specific bits of flavor related to each setting, but they're VERY similar.

Absolutely. The entire show is an awesome Dragon-Blooded-central game with a Solar as the Avatar, who must master the Immaculate Martial Arts and defeat the Empr-... Fire Lord, before the entire world is plunged into chaos.

[dehro]

I find it to be even more implausable that Sokka JUST NOW NOTICED his general uselessness on the team. I mean, seriously.

well...there is such a thing as a morale and an educational purpose...after all, you are still watching a cartoon,... aimed at kids...
and there are morale values that somehow come up in these kind of things, and the writers simply jump at the chance to do a little bit of education...
iif notting, it keeps the producers happy, and gives them point of sales to use when they are, in fact, selling the cartoon..
this has nothing to do with sokka at all..though I wouldn't mind him becoming an adept of the white lotus (maybe giving him the paisho tile is a form of initiation???:smallconfused: ).and hey..we are still talking kids here... they tend to have identity an crisis now and then, don't they? especially when you consider that Sokka is after all the eldest of the group (avatar -100..ok, ok, don't start with that one!)..and feels a bit inadequate..

anyway... Iroh totally wins the day!

I think that he's training to..major spoiler/fanfic ahead in the nick of time, beat the crap out of his younger brother, the firelord, in a duel.
this way he could accomplish any of the following 3 things...
1)he could regain his birthright and become firelord, and declare an unilateral truce/peace.
2)ask that he and Zuko be left to their destiny without retaliation, whatever they choose to do with their lives.
3) claim Zuko as his son. this could move zuko once and for all to the point of deciding what to do with his life.... in a positive way, that is. also, the firelord doesn't really care for him anyway.

...any of the above, or all 3 could work out great...because the avatar smashing up the firenation can only bring so much peace..and not to everybody...someone will have to pick up the scraps of the firenation, one day or another... and Zuko seems a bit umprepaired to do so..

[averagejoe]

well...there is such a thing as a morale and an educational purpose...after all, you are still watching a cartoon,... aimed at kids...
and there are morale values that somehow come up in these kind of things, and the writers simply jump at the chance to do a little bit of education...
iif notting, it keeps the producers happy, and gives them point of sales to use when they are, in fact, selling the cartoon..
this has notting to do with sokka at all..though I wouldn't mind him becoming an adept of the white lotus (maybe giving him the paisho tile is a form of initiation???:smallconfused: )

This doesn't actually bug me a lot, I just find it kind of funny because it is the sort of things fans had been saying about the show ever since it started. I'm not quite sure how Sokka not noticing his uselessness was educational, though...

Also, on the Aang/Kitara thing: I'm kind of against them getting together at all, just because this sort of thing has become so cleche. Seriously, to all you television writers (and novelists. In fact, storytellers in general), the hero and heroine do not always need to hook up every single time. :smallannoyed:

[TSGames]

This doesn't actually bug me a lot, I just find it kind of funny because it is the sort of things fans had been saying about the show ever since it started. I'm not quite sure how Sokka not noticing his uselessness was educational, though...


Children need to learn this lesson:
http://www.didierbeck.com/pics/200409/despair04.jpg

[Nerd-o-rama]

Also, on the Aang/Kitara thing: I'm kind of against them getting together at all, just because this sort of thing has become so cleche. Seriously, to all you television writers (and novelists. In fact, storytellers in general), the hero and heroine do not always need to hook up every single time. :smallannoyed:
Frankly, at this point, protagonists being unhappy and angsty all the time is almost as much of a cliché as a happy ending. I blame the 90's. Personally, I'm never against the hero and heroine hooking up, because it's subverted enough in the kinds of shows I enjoy that it's not gotten old. Also, I'm a disgustingly hopeless romantic, at least when it comes to fiction. Plus, this way, the love story doesn't take up nearly so much airtime, and there can be more punching!

Also, it still feels much more natural and less...well, utterly creepy than Zuko/Mai.

[Green Bean]

Also, it still feels much more natural and less...well, utterly creepy than Zuko/Mai.

They are a little creepy together, aren't they. I have a feeling it's deliberate.

[averagejoe]

Yes but there's all sorts of middle ground between sappy happy ending and dreary angst. (Or Aangst. :smalltongue: Yes I am a bad person. ) It could simply not cross their minds for the length of the show, or at least never taken seriously. It could even be tried once and dropped without any angst at all. That's just off the top of my head, too. Romantic subplots are some of the oldest ones in the book, and no matter how well done or unique the show is, they inevitably turn out the same way. Every. Single. Time.

[Nerd-o-rama]

They are a little creepy together, aren't they. I have a feeling it's deliberate.
Well, they were pretty creepy apart. It's likely a resonance/reinforcement thing.

Averagejoe: go watch, I dunno, Pygmalion (the stage/text version, not My Fair Lady the movie). Chasing Amy is, well, terrible, but it's got no happy ending, and it's an actual romance movie.

Heck, just watch a TV show that's not a cartoon and not on prime time. You've got decent good odds of the male and female leads not hooking up.

[Attilargh]

Also, it still feels much more natural and less...well, utterly creepy than Zuko/Mai.
Am I really the only playgrounder aboard AS Maiko? I really like this little 'ship, and was looking forward to it all the way from "Zuko Alone", if not earlier. It's just so much fun watching the two emo teens of the show having actual fun.

...Okay, so they are creepy together. But it's good creepy.


Ædit: Joe, it's spelt "cliché".

[averagejoe]

Nono, that's not what I meant. I meant every time that there's a romantic subplot (doesn't count for romance movies, as romance is the plot, not the subplot) it's pretty much the same romantic subplot every time. Sure, they may try to twist it a bit, and there are a few subversions, but for the most part you only ever need to see one romantic subplot in your life and you pretty much know what's going on. I'm just so tired of, "Oh look, the two main characters are a male and a female. They're definitely gonna hook up at the end." It's become automatic, like seeing a crewmemer not in the main cast go on an away mission in Star Trek.

Admittedly, there are exceptions, but you are more optimistic than I about my chances of seeing them. Even a lot of the subversions are handled in a very cleche manner. Perhaps I've become too cynical about fictional romance, but it's hard to see it as anything but a set of cleches, no matter what the actual events are.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Joe, I see fiction as a set of clichés by now. I just don't care, and enjoy it anyway.

And you're right, the less time devoted to a romance plot, the more standardized it becomes. Because if it's not the main focus of the story, then why bother? Toss out a known set of tropes into the script, and the audience will pretty much fill in the story for themselves. Then, you've got more space left in the script for fight scenes and wacky hybrid animals. That's the way I see the scripting decisions going.

And one more thing: remember Avatar is targeted to twelve year old boys, who really couldn't give a rat's ass about a compelling love story. We're just the periphery demographic here.

[averagejoe]

Joe, I see fiction as a set of clichés by now. I just don't care, and enjoy it anyway.

I see where you're coming from, but I have to disagree with you there. One can delve into well-traveled territory without turning cleche. It's more difficult, and less commmon, but there you go.


And one more thing: remember Avatar is targeted to twelve year old boys, who really couldn't give a rat's ass about a compelling love story. We're just the periphery demographic here.

Well, see, that's my issue though; it isn't that I want a compelling love story, it's that I'm starting to feel like for almost anything produced these days there's the obligation to put in a subplot like this, and it just feels kind of tacked on. I mean, heck, the love story isn't really very much more or less compelling than most fiction targeted at adults (of either gender) anyways. In fact, if so-called "adult" fiction didn't seem to follow this exact formula, I wouldn't have so much of a problem with it.

[Crombat]

in the nick of time, beat the crap out of his younger brother, the firelord, in a duel.
this way he could accomplish any of the following 3 things...
1)he could regain his birthright and become firelord, and declare an unilateral truce/peace.
2)ask that he and Zuko be left to their destiny without retaliation, whatever they choose to do with their lives.
3) claim Zuko as his son. this could move zuko once and for all to the point of deciding what to do with his life.... in a positive way, that is. also, the firelord doesn't really care for him anyway.

...any of the above, or all 3 could work out great...because the avatar smashing up the firenation can only bring so much peace..and not to everybody...someone will have to pick up the scraps of the firenation, one day or another... and Zuko seems a bit umprepaired to do so..


<opinion>
I'm sorry, but Iroh's gonna die. The old, wise and a little weird mentor guy ALWAYS dies. My guess is 3x18 or 3x19, he's gone. Here's what will happen: Iroh breaks out of jail (or the White Lotus guys break him out), meets the Aang Gang :smallbiggrin: and teaches Aang firebending. Then, shortly before or in the Final Battle, he gets killed by either the Fire Lord or Zuko. I believe the Fire Lord kills him, so Zuko can make his Heel Face Turn at the right time, and later go on to rule the Fire Nation.
</opinion>

[TSGames]

<opinion>
I'm sorry, but Iroh's gonna die. The old, wise and a little weird mentor guy ALWAYS dies. My guess is 3x18 or 3x19, he's gone. Here's what will happen: Iroh breaks out of jail (or the White Lotus guys break him out), meets the Aang Gang :smallbiggrin: and teaches Aang firebending. Then, shortly before or in the Final Battle, he gets killed by either the Fire Lord or Zuko. I believe the Fire Lord kills him, so Zuko can make his Heel Face Turn at the right time, and later go on to rule the Fire Nation.
</opinion>


His survivability is not helped by the death of his voice actor, either...

[BlackStaticWolf]

His survivability is not helped by the death of his voice actor, either...

Especially since his voice actor was fricken awesome.

[Rogue 7]

Oh, that's a darn shame. My condolences to his family.

I'll be pissed if Iroh dies, he's probably my favorite character.

[drawingfreak]

I'm ok with Iroh dying as long as it is with style.

[Jerthanis]

Hey, has anyone realized that Katara actually has a consistently really bad moral compass as far as kids' animated shows go? What's more, she never is really gets an Aesop delivered to her about her actions. An example other than the recent actions in the Painted Lady episode: She stole the water bending scroll from the pirates in the first season. IIRC, she didn't even know they were pirates until after she had taken it. The moral of that episode seemed to be "Stealing is wrong unless you REALLY want it... after all, its owners probably don't deserve it anyway."

A question I had when rewatching Sokka's Master was what exactly does it take to be a Bender. Is it entirely genetic? Is everyone capable of bending if they train at it? It seems like if Sokka hated that he couldn't bend so much, he could learn from Aang, Katara or Toph. If there's something stopping him from learning, it must be a recessive genetic trait or something... does that mean Toph's parents are benders? What about Sokka and Katara's father? What percentage of the population has the potential to learn to bend?

Also, Sokka is a player... I must have missed Toph's blush when Sokka returned the first time I saw it. That reaffirmed my suspicions that the only females who aren't eager to jump him are those closely related to him. Aang only has a chance with Katara because she happens to be his sister. Remember Rappin' Sokka from the Tales of Ba-Sing-Se episode? I rest my case... Sokka's a player.

[Solo]

The ability to bend is implied to be partially genetic.

[Winterwind]

The ability to bend is implied to be partially genetic.Which means Sokka got really, really unlucky with the DNA he received from his parents. So close, and yet so far. :smalltongue:

[RMS Oceanic]

From what I've read, bending is like the Force; either you can or you can't. Which element you bend is down to your culture/training. A bending-capable child of Firebenders orphaned and raised by an Earth Kingdom family will most likely learn Earthbending. A Water Tribe baby abducted by the Fire Nation will likely learn Firebending. Once you're taught how to bend an element, you're stuck with that element and can't change it, regardless of what your parents could do. A Firebender could be born to an Airbender and an Earthbender, if fate wanted it that way.

The Avatar is an exception to this, of course. He can learn any Bending Discipline.

[Attilargh]

She stole the water bending scroll from the pirates in the first season. IIRC, she didn't even know they were pirates until after she had taken it.
Actually, Sokka voiced his suspicions and had them confirmed before she even asked the price. Or so the transcript (http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/transcripts.php?ep=109) says, I'm too lazy to watch the episode.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Bending is also apparently quite rarely expressed even in the same family. I mean, we've seen as minor characters twins who one was a bender and one wasn't (The Fortune Teller, I believe).

I think bending aptitude might actually be entirely random, or determined by some higher destiny...although this show is conspicuously lacking in fatalism and predestination so far. (Any significant astrological events have real strategic value attached to them, not just prophetic implications).


Now that I think of it, there's a definite spiritual component, though. The Air Nomads, for example, were almost entirely monks, and almost entirely benders. The worldly Earth Kingdom? Not so much.

This could alternatively be explained as each culture having about the same number of Benders born in each generation, regardless of total population: thus, the tiny Air Nomad population is entirely benders, the large Earth Kingdom has a bending population the size of the Air Nomads, plus several million normals. Of course, if this is true, the extermination of the Air Nomads should logically have caused no benders to be born in succeeding generations, to keep the numbers even...or maybe each culture gets a certain number, and if their total population falls below that number, tough luck.

[Winterwind]

The Air Nomads, for example, were almost entirely monks, and almost entirely benders. Do we know this for a fact (it's something I've been wondering about for a while)? All we see from the Air Nomads are monks and benders, but that might well be because that's the part of the Air Nomad population Aang has had contact with and there never was a narrative need to show what the rest of the Air Nomad population looks like.

In fact, if the monks we have seen make up the entire Air Nomad population I have two questions: Where are the female Air Nomads (I don't recall there being female monks), and why the heck are they called Nomads?

[Nerd-o-rama]

I'm pretty sure I got that from an interview or commentary somewhere, but I can't cite it. Feel free to ignore me. Regardless, they were assuredly the most spiritual and smallest of the four nations.

As for the female Air Nomads? Four temples, two male, two female. Presumably they got together occasionally for obvious reasons. I'm confident I heard this somewhere, even though it doesn't make any actual sense.

Can't quite explain the name though, if my "they're all monks" theory is correct. However, if they're not, they're clearly based on Tibetan and Nepalese cultures, who were mostly nomadic and agrarian through most of recorded history, except for the tradition of ascetic and cloistered monks. Maybe Air Nomads is an old name they kept after they all settled down into monasteries?

[Winterwind]

I'm pretty sure I got that from an interview or commentary somewhere, but I can't cite it. Feel free to ignore me. Regardless, they were assuredly the most spiritual and smallest of the four nations.Nah, I believe you, I just wondered whether I missed some information.


As for the female Air Nomads? Four temples, two male, two female. Presumably they got together occasionally for obvious reasons. I'm confident I heard this somewhere, even though it doesn't make any actual sense.Oh, okay. Now that you say it, this sounds familiar.


Can't quite explain the name though, if my "they're all monks" theory is correct. However, if they're not, they're clearly based on Tibetan and Nepalese cultures, who were mostly nomadic and agrarian through most of recorded history, except for the tradition of ascetic and cloistered monks. Maybe Air Nomads is an old name they kept after they all settled down into monasteries?Yeah, that might be it. Although personally I find the concept of a real nomadic race travelling through the air pretty cool (might've been rather hard to exterminate them completely then, however. On the other hand, I have trouble to see how that could have happened in the first place, what with their bisons and all - how come not a single one managed to retreat?)

[Nerd-o-rama]

Depends on how dramatic the effect of Sozin's Comet is, really. It's possible with proper timing, coordination, and surprise, they might have been able to overpower each temple before anyone could really react. Plus, they probably had appropriate countermeasures in place to take down bison or gliders...pneumatic or even regular gunpowder cannons firing weighted nets would work in a cartoon.

[TSGames]

Personally, I think that, in a dramatic twist, it will be revealed that some of the air benders survived in a floating city. (That way the show gets a happy ending for everyone)

[Winterwind]

Depends on how dramatic the effect of Sozin's Comet is, really. It's possible with proper timing, coordination, and surprise, they might have been able to overpower each temple before anyone could really react. Plus, they probably had appropriate countermeasures in place to take down bison or gliders...pneumatic or even regular gunpowder cannons firing weighted nets would work in a cartoon.Yeah, I guess that's true.
Although, we have seen the machines used to take down the temples in the flashbacks, and it didn't seem to me as if the monks had this little time to act. And Air is the element of Freedom, so they shouldn't have that much trouble leaving their possessions behind, even more so considering their semi-Buddhistic demeanor.


Personally, I think that, in a dramatic twist, it will be revealed that some of the air benders survived in a floating city. (That way the show gets a happy ending for everyone)Yeah, I expect that to happen as well. And actually, even though it sort of devalues the supposed "last-ness" of Aang, I hope it will happen - when the story is done, there will be no need for it not to happen.

Unless, of course, they go for the completely surprising twist and the series ends with Aang's death. But I suppose they would never be allowed to do that.

[Emperor Tippy]

I don't think benders are that rare at all. I mean think about it. Both the Earth Nation and the Fire Nation field whole armies of benders. Earth Benders power the trains in Ba Sine Se and the mail system in Omashu. Every ship in the fire bender navy is shown to have fire benders.

We are talking a significant percentage of the population as benders, upwards of 30%.

And in the case of the Air Nomads, where they lived on top of mountains only accessible easily by flight, it was much more likely to be closer to 100%. We see Aang playing wit ha bunch of monks his age and all are Air Benders.

[Rogue 7]

I don't think benders are that rare at all. I mean think about it. Both the Earth Nation and the Fire Nation field whole armies of benders. Earth Benders power the trains in Ba Sine Se and the mail system in Omashu. Every ship in the fire bender navy is shown to have fire benders.

We are talking a significant percentage of the population as benders, upwards of 30%.


I'd put the number at around 10%. In a war that's been going on for 100 years, particularly in the militaristic Fire Nation, the majority of benders are going to be in the army. 10% of a population in an army is a huge commitment. In addition, those certain tasks you mentioned in the earth kingdom can only be done by benders, so they're going to have to be there. If 30% of the population was a bender, there'd be almost no need for conventional troops, and clearly, all sides use them to great effect.

[Emperor Tippy]

Um, where? I think we have seen like a dozen Fire Nation soldiers who can't bend in the whole series. Same with the earth Kingdom.

[Rogue 7]

Most of Zuko's soldiers aren't benders (they tend to be higher ranked, I think), and when the group randomly runs across a group of soldiers, there won't be more than a few benders. You'll get corps of benders, certainly, but there are definitely still grunts.

[averagejoe]

Same with the earth kingdom, really. (Like in the Zuko Alone episode.) It's just that the non-benders get less screen time because, well, they go down pretty easy.

Still holding out for Cabbage Guy to make it to the fire nation. If that happens then I will declare the series a smashing success no matter what else happens.

[Attilargh]

"The Beach":

Urk, I had a really hard time watching this one. Azula's dialogue was just horrible at times and the Big Happy Psychotherapy Bonfire scene did not work. I didn't mind the angst, but can't shake the feeling it could've been done so much better. Still, not quite the Big No (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/kerai/1141245793838.jpg) material as I had feared after reading the comments on the TVTropes forums. (Mental note: No reading these threads before watching.)

On the bright side, the shirtless Zuko scene with the doves was totally awesome (what?), and most of the Maiko stuff was pretty funny. Few good lines, too, like the one about bad skin and Azula being a monster. The Freaky Tattoo Guy seems fairly badass.

I'll give the episode a big, solid "meh" and hope the next one is better. It's got Roku, Sozin and Zuko in it, plus some plot, so it shouldn't be all bad.

[Human Paragon 3]

I thought "The Beach" was hilarious. There were a few eye-roll moments, sure, but overall it was very funny and I laughed out loud many times during this episode. It was very... weird to see all the fire nation kids humanized this way, especially Azula. Seeing her flailing awkwardly in a social situation transitioned her from a 2-dimensional character to a 3-d one, or at least partway there. Same for Mai and Ti-lee. Before this episode, Ti-lee is just the super happy, bubbly acrobatic chick who says the clouds are poofy (poof!). Now, even if her little speech was a tad over-stated (and let's face it, they all were) there's more to her, and I appreciate that.

[Nerd-o-rama]

"My own mother...thought I was a monster.
...
She was right, of course, but it still hurt."

This was an interesting episode, and had its fun moments as well as its overwrought ones. And neat animation techniques with ExplosionMan.

[averagejoe]

That was good. They needed a funny episode. I mean, the bonfire scene was kind of random, but other than that it was enjoyable. I loved Azula's reaction to winning volleyball.

What was pulling their boat in the beginning? Hippo-turtle?

[drawingfreak]

The characterization seemed a little forced in the bonfire scene. Loved it when they crashed the party at the end.

Did anyone else notice the animation in the metal guy's stomach before firing off a blast? I think he is attacking with his chakra as the Fire chakra is located in the stomach as addressed in the Guru episode.

[BlackStaticWolf]

That was good. They needed a funny episode. I mean, the bonfire scene was kind of random, but other than that it was enjoyable. I loved Azula's reaction to winning volleyball.

And her reaction to being hit on.

[Rogue 7]

Ok, so apparantly the guy behind tv-links got arrested and the site's closed down, so now I have no idea how to navigate the travesty that is the Nick site to find the latest episode. Anyone got a link?

[TSGames]

I couldn't care less for the psycho and emo reactions throughout the episode. It was, however redeemed by one fact:

FRIKIN LAZERS

[Green Bean]

Lasers make everything awesome! :smallbiggrin:

[Jerthanis]

Mai and Ty-lee needed character development like burning, so it was good they got it, as heavy handed as it was. Azula remains an unsympathetic, one dimensional villain in my mind... so the entire point of the episode was Aang's fight with Badass McExplosionbender and Zuko throwing off his shirt to the sound of gulls taking flight and girls squealing.

all in all, not a waste... but I'm still waiting for the episode in the 3rd season that reminds me how amazing this show really is... and pushes it beyond the levels it already has achieved.

[saimne]

Ok, so apparantly the guy behind tv-links got arrested and the site's closed down, so now I have no idea how to navigate the travesty that is the Nick site to find the latest episode. Anyone got a link?

Go to TurboNick (http://www.nick.com/turbonick/index.jhtml?extvideoid=46468) and click on the "Buzz" button on the left side of the screen.

Then click on the picture of Katara. "The Beach" should be near the top but does not have the "Full Length" caption. It is still the full length episode though.

[Rogue 7]

Thanks a ton.

[averagejoe]

all in all, not a waste... but I'm still waiting for the episode in the 3rd season that reminds me how amazing this show really is... and pushes it beyond the levels it already has achieved.

I've actually been thinking along those lines. I'm not even necessarily asking for more plot, just better quality episodes. I mean, I enjoyed most of this one, but the whole May and Ty Lee, "OMG this happened to me and that's why I am how I am," speeches kind of brought the whole thing down, and smacked of trying too hard. If you're going to do funny filler, do funny filler. If you're going to do exposition, do exposition. Both have worked very well in the past-"The Storm" and "The Cave of the Two Lovers" were both fantastic episodes, even if they were for different reasons. However, mixing both is a terrible idea.

And, really, the funny parts of the latest episode are the only real "luster" parts of the fourth season so far, as the rest have been somewhat lacking in this quality. I mean, I've enjoyed the fourth season so far, but it has had few of the charming qualities of previous seasons.

[drawingfreak]

...it's only the third season. But yeah, we get what ya mean.

[averagejoe]

...it's only the third season. But yeah, we get what ya mean.

Whoops. :smallredface: Well, whatever season it is.

[Rogue 7]

Upon watching this episode I'm even more conviced that Zuko is an utter and complete idiot. No **** you're mad at yourself, moron. Why on earth would you alienate the only person who seems to like you at this point (Mai), and more importantly, if you're going to confess that you don't think you've done the right thing, please, for all that is holy, don't do it in front of your power-crazed, ruthless sister who would take joy in watching you burn.

I actually liked Tai Lee's exposition, even if I thought Mai's was a bit heavy-handed. At least Tai Lee had more of a reason for hers than Mai, at least in my mind. Oh, and those two old ladies? Brrrr *shudders*

[Green Bean]

Hey, don't diss the rhyming old lady twins! They're between 'the random cabbage guy' and 'platypus-bears' on my list of awesome things on the show! :smallbiggrin:

[RMS Oceanic]

Two Words about "The Avatar and the Firelord" (after the spoilers)

(MAJOR Spoilers. If you don't want to be spoilt, don't read!)
Aang: Iroh never told you what happened to your Great-Grandfather.
Zuko: He told me enough! He told me he left your past life to die!
Aang: No, Zuko...my past life WAS your Great-Grandfather!
Zuko: That's not true! That's impossible!
Aang: Search your feelings, you know it to be true!
Zuko: NOOOOOOOO!

In other words: Princess Ursa, Zuko's Mother, was Granddaughter of Avatar Roku, making Zuko Great-Grandson of the Avatar, as well as Great-Grandson of Firelord Sozin.

M Night Shamalan: Whatta Tweest!!

[Attilargh]

Dude, not cool. After giggling at the "quote" a bit, I didn't take the warning seriously any more, and now it's all spoiled! Darn you, darn you to heck!

[RMS Oceanic]

Terribly sorry, man. I've made my warning clear.

From a historical viewpoint, the story reminded me somewhat of:Henry II of England and Thomas Becket.

[lamguin]

Two Words about "The Avatar and the Firelord" (after the spoilers)

(MAJOR Spoilers. If you don't want to be spoilt, don't read!)
Aang: Iroh never told you what happened to your Great-Grandfather.
Zuko: He told me enough! He told me he left your past life to die!
Aang: No, Zuko...my past life WAS your Great-Grandfather!
Zuko: That's not true! That's impossible!
Aang: Search your feelings, you know it to be true!
Zuko: NOOOOOOOO! That's impossible!

In other words: Princess Ursa, Zuko's Mother, was Granddaughter of Avatar Roku, making Zuko Great-Grandson of the Avatar, as well as Great-Grandson of Firelord Sozin.

M Night Shamalan: Whatta Tweest!!

Corrected.

[Rogue 7]

Meh. It's not really that much of a surprise that the Avatar would be treated with great respect, so that doesn't shock me at all. I don't think that Aang has any relation to Zuko, though.

[averagejoe]

Upon watching this episode I'm even more conviced that Zuko is an utter and complete idiot. No **** you're mad at yourself, moron. Why on earth would you alienate the only person who seems to like you at this point (Mai), and more importantly, if you're going to confess that you don't think you've done the right thing, please, for all that is holy, don't do it in front of your power-crazed, ruthless sister who would take joy in watching you burn.

You think there's any chance that she's going to let Zuko take the throne anyways? Unless he forsakes his claim, he's a dead man.

[dehro]

Two Words about "The Avatar and the Firelord" (after the spoilers)

(MAJOR Spoilers. If you don't want to be spoilt, don't read!)
Aang: Iroh never told you what happened to your Great-Grandfather.
Zuko: He told me enough! He told me he left your past life to die!
Aang: No, Zuko...my past life WAS your Great-Grandfather!
Zuko: That's not true! That's impossible!
Aang: Search your feelings, you know it to be true!
Zuko: NOOOOOOOO!

In other words: Princess Ursa, Zuko's Mother, was Granddaughter of Avatar Roku, making Zuko Great-Grandson of the Avatar, as well as Great-Grandson of Firelord Sozin.

M Night Shamalan: Whatta Tweest!!

hilarious...made me think of this:
an old classic (http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=q0s5Kn9QXtU)


anyway, my two cent about this episode...

1)where the hell is Sokka? not even a line, I can understand...but not even comparing when they flee on Appa?
2)what about the main plot? I can understand that it's episodes, and aimed at kids...but ...heck... is zuko suddenly utterly retarded? He's just returned in favour of his father but still has a power-hungry sister that won't let him on the throne for no reason..so nothing is really resolved..
3)and frankly... where is the "depth" of all other episodes? let's have an episode of "insights into the troubled souls of the firenations' best"...Ow, I'm such a moron, Ow I'm such looser with big boobs.., Ow my parents opress me
..and me, no, I'm ok...I'm just a nutter...

you know what? I know the perfect solution to our problems... let's go bully someone...

seriously...

no, I'm definitelly disapointed by this episode... the episode before this one was somehow an innocent, introspecting and "role defining" episode...while this is just 5-year old kids on too much sugar.

I Just hope that this was only a misstep and not a trend due to lack of ideas for filling material for before the last big battle...

[Green Bean]

I'm told that there's a lot of Roku in this next episode, and that he's a total badass. Can anyone confirm or deny?

[Attilargh]

Thanks to some very nice UK person, the following mini-spoiler has been delivered to you, h__v: Yes, there will be Roku in the next episode, and yes, he will be a total badass. As a bonus, there will be some Sozin as well, and he too is going to be a total badass. A really good episode for a change, with a neat twist in the end.

(Why can't I ever see the twist before reading the spoilers? Why? :smallfrown: )

[hanzo66]

I saw the episode. Roku does have a scene where he bends all four elements in different directions around him with massive effect (scene in third season trailer).

It was a good episode save for a problem with the end...

[dehro]

I saw the episode. Roku does have a scene where he bends all four elements in different directions around him with massive effect (scene in third season trailer).

It was a good episode save for a problem with the end...

thanks for the spoiler... :smallfurious:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yeah, you people watching the pirated version of the episode should probably avoid the gigantic unmarked spoilers, thanks.

Even RMS Oceanic made it sound like he was being sarcastic about the spoiler part, but the more I read it, the more I believe it...

[Jerthanis]

Aeris dies when Snape sinks the Titanic and "Rosebud" turns out to be Earth all along.


(totally serious spoliers guys, seriously...:smalltongue: )

[Green Bean]

Aeris dies when Snape sinks the Titanic and "Rosebud" turns out to be Earth all along.


(totally serious spoliers guys, seriously...:smalltongue: )

Truly. (http://www.xkcd.com/109/) :smallbiggrin:

[Job]

Episodes 306, 307:

Very well done, I really enjoyed them both.

As for the spoilers, let’s be very clear how we post them (i.e. no comical embellishment). Not saying anyone is at fault, just want to be sure no-one is expecting a joke, and getting something else entirely.

I mean seriously, you guys: (you guys, seriously)

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yeah. I mean, I normally avoid show threads after the actual airdate until I watch them, but when people start talking about it on Wednesday, it throws me off.

I guess I'll be nice and mark spoilers, although you should know better now...

Anyway, I feel...conflicted abut this episode. On the one hand, it had awesome action. Avatar vs. the Volcano? Hell yes. On the other hand, it didn't really do much except establish Sozin as even more of a one-dimensional evil overlord than he was before. And establish Roku as having the Sense Motive score of a sack of hammers, but we could have guessed that.

[Callos_DeTerran]

*cough*....well damn someone had it right.


Makes sense though...sorta...maybe not.....am I the only one who doesn't think Sozin wasn't really all that one dimensional? Not completely good cliche breaker but he wasn't 1D


Also, Avatar vs. Volcano is indeed very awesome but also brings to mind one very important question....how was Sozin bending the air? You heard me. He was funneling volcano smoke/poisonus gas/ashes with the very same motion that Iroh uses to redirect lightening. Perhaps a universal sort of thing?

Also important (not really) perhaps this is the secret the White Lotus have to do with?

[Green Bean]

Also, Avatar vs. Volcano is indeed very awesome but also brings to mind one very important question....how was Sozin bending the air? You heard me. He was funneling volcano smoke/poisonus gas/ashes with the very same motion that Iroh uses to redirect lightening. Perhaps a universal sort of thing?

Also important (not really) perhaps this is the secret the White Lotus have to do with?

Heat-bending, perhaps?

[drawingfreak]

I saw it as bending the heat cause the lava cooled into rock.

[Jerthanis]

A lot of the exposition episodes and parts of episodes devoted to exposition in the third season have been pretty stilted. It seems like most of the third season so far isn't so much creating new adventures that they're embarking on so much as connecting the storyline at the end of Season 2 to the inevitable fight at the end of season 3.

Mostly the Beach and the Roku backstory episode. It felt like the writers said, "Oh shoot, we've got plot threads to tie up, let's rush through them."

I'm getting the sense that the end of the series will be heavy doses of Redemption equals death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.RedemptionEqualsDeath), Las Minute Hookups (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LastMinuteHookup), and plenty of other tropes associated with the end of a series, and it'll take away from the 3rd season as a whole because no more tension will be built up, and none will be released until the last two or three episodes, which will probably air in sequence.

Perhaps I'm just being cynical.

[Winterwind]

Perhaps I'm just being cynical.Alas, the course of events you presented here doesn't seem improbable at all.

Then again, the writers have proven to know what they are doing most of the time over the course of two quite satisfying seasons, so maybe we should give them the benefits of the doubt until proven guilty. :smallwink:

[dehro]

All very true, probably...

still, the beach episode sucked

[Alex Kidd]

Eh it wasn't that bad. And it's more than made up by episode 8.

Cause seriously, bloodbending? And how well it was handled. Just awesome. It was as dark and creepy as it could be and should be. And did Hama snap that first rat's neck when she bent it's blood cause it totally sounded like that. Talk about kicking the dog.
(http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.KickTheDog)
And now Katara can do it too. Though only on a full moon, or likely a solar eclipse, seeing as that also involves a full moon.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Just so everybody's clear (and doesn't have to count, which I did incorrectly), the above is a spoiler for an episode that hasn't aired yet. Shame on you pirates.

Where are you getting this, anyway? I've been piracy-deprived since tv-links' owner got arrested. Share!

[RMS Oceanic]

No piracy here. The UK decided to celebrate halloween by showing two episodes of Book Three a day. We're all the way up to episode 9, and the Day of Black Sun may broadcast sometime over the next week. That's how I knew. I watched them on a legitimate channel.

[Rogue 7]

Much enjoyed episode 6. I thought it was interesting that Roku had time to spend at home with his wife, and wasn't flying all over the world doing Avatar stuff. It was interesting to note that even the threat of Avatar retribution was enough to keep Sozin in line. Very interesting take on politics and history in the Avatar world, particularly the Fire nation.

Also interesting to note that Aang's still bald in the spirit world.

Zuko's definitely going to turn against the Fire Lord, and probably be the one who offs Azula, perhaps during the eclipse- his mastery of those twin swords against a sister who relies almost exclusively on firebending should be enough to give him the winning edge.

[Nerd-o-rama]

No piracy here. The UK decided to celebrate halloween by showing two episodes of Book Three a day. We're all the way up to episode 9, and the Day of Black Sun may broadcast sometime over the next week. That's how I knew. I watched them on a legitimate channel.
Well, yes, but that's in Britain. You'e all pirates. Buncha bloody limeys.

[Talfrey]

Limeys?

You're a bloody limey american wanker!! Go snog a dog and pull yer uncle!

...

And join the darkside already mate! Pirates are where it's at!

[Nerd-o-rama]

Your profile says you live in DC...Imperialist traitor!

Also, I'm only a pirate in drinking habits. The Captain is my homeboy. Otherwise ninja are much more efficient, if less famous, in their work.

Okay, drinking habits and internet habits. This is all spoilers for Britain-only episodes, just to be clear.

The three so-far-only-in-Britain eps were all pretty good. My favorite parts were at the very beginning and the very end...

At the beginning of "The Runaway", after the opening scene, I immediately said "seventy-two hours earlier..." because it looked exactly like the opening to Firefly's "Trash". Sure enough, "Three days earlier..." appears on the screen. It looks like I'm not the only one who watches too much Firefly...this connection also allowed me to call the plot twist easily, although I didn't call the scam not working.

And then, the end of "Nightmares and Daydreams" speaks for itself, I think.

"No, Firelord. You're not wearing any pants."

Also, forgot to comment on this:

Also interesting to note that Aang's still bald in the spirit world.
It's a self-image thing. He's like Neo, but in reverse.

[dehro]

Well, yes, but that's in Britain. You'e all pirates. Buncha bloody limeys.

LMAO... nerdorama FTW

[Talfrey]

It's true, there was a census where everyone put down jedi knight as a their religion...

Anywaaaay...

I LOVED Appa vs. Momo. Samurai animal battle for the win! Seriously. I'm going to have to try to do that as an avatar.

[Attilargh]

About the British episodes:
I loved especially how it's Dee Bradley Baker doing both voices. Good to hear him actually speak again. Plus, Momo's resemblance of Miyamoto Usagi was a great touch. Also, after seeing the Avatar panel of this year's Comic Con (sadly only on video; San Diego is rather far away), Aang's hairstyles were totally awesome. Not really big episode plot-wise, but quite important for Zuko. Interesting to note how Zuko prefers to do things himself, but Azula likes having servants around. (Not unexpected, mind, just interesting.)

Katara not selling Toph out was a bit of a downer (I have a really nice Epileptic Tree on that), but I guess with her being the Messiah of the show and all, it would've been a bit out of character. D-Man had a cool power breakdown in the end, very nicely animated. Looks like it's personal now, which means Zuko might finally get to do that Heel Face Turn we've been waiting for. (Or maybe not. Wham!) Toph got to speak, and the dialogue was actually good. Yay for a good episode!

Not much to say about the eighth episode, really. Bloodbending's creepy and Hama was kinda cool, but it wasn't anything special. Nice fight scene in the end, with the two of them draining all that water from the plants. (Too bad this is a kids' show. I'd really like to see someone doing that with Bloodbending.)

(Don't look at me like that.)

[Job]

I’ve really enjoyed 306 to 309,

But I do have some peremptory comments concerning 308 because I’m just that full of myself: P

Q: Wait, how can Hama afford to keep all those people locked up for several months?
Would she not simply lure them to the mountain and kill them?

A: Necessity, as this is a “kid show” the whole kidnap and murder business is right out. Despite the fact that it makes not sense, it’s one of those things you have to live with.

Q: How could Katara have learned blood bending so fast?

A: She didn’t, she made Hama sit down, nothing remotely as complicated as Hama’s expert manipulation of her victims.

Q: Would it not be impossible to capture a water-bender, as they could always use their own body fluids to acquire “bendables”, and doesn’t that leave a big plot hole in this episode and in 307 for that matter?

A: Yes, but again you have to remember it’s a “kid show” some might be uneasy about a character throwing about globs of her own urine. If you really need to justify it further you could say the fire nation guard kept the water-benders on such a short leash that they took steps to remove an bodily fluids almost immediately, and they just were not expecting to be literally possessed when Hama mastered her blood-bending. Not a perfect explanation I know.

However it would make for one of those Sokka moments if you could show it on nick,
Sokka: “ah, Katara…where did you get the yel…”
Katara: “shut-up”
Sokka: “yes ma’am”

Q: Ok this whole blood-bending thing is stupid, Why wouldn’t a water-bender simply desiccate any enemy he meets, and why does it only work on the full moon? Water is water, doesn’t matter where it is right?

A: One must remember that benders abide by two sets of laws, one purely physically in nature, but there is also a spiritual component. I theorize that when one imbibes water it becomes a part of your “self” and is subject to protection by your conscious, so much so that a water-bender has to be at his peak to overcome this protection, and even then not completely. This is supported by the show itself, we see that Hama can possess rats but not simply desiccate them, the rat’s rudimentary consciousness prevents her form doing so, they are more susceptible to the technique then say a human. This explanation still allows a water-bender to pull water form living things (sometimes explosively) such as trees and grass, as those plants have no conscious to protect them.

[dehro]

I might be forgetting something...but where did Aang get the big bruise on his back, halfway the tattoed arrow, from?
I can't remember any episode where he has been hurt so badly that it remains visible..

[Attilargh]

...Dude. Forgotten (http://screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/220/672.jpg) already? No Hollywood Healing (http://screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/220/672.jpg) in this show.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Ah, Attilargh got it while I was previewing.

Anyway, Job, I like your fancruft and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Also, how could I forget the real best part of "The Runaway", where
They realized that Waterbender + Earthbender = mud wrestling?

...what?

[Attilargh]

You dirty, dirty cardboard box.

[Green Bean]

I’ve really enjoyed 306 to 309,

But I do have some peremptory comments concerning 308 because I’m just that full of myself: P

Q: Wait, how can Hama afford to keep all those people locked up for several months?
Would she not simply lure them to the mountain and kill them?

A: Necessity, as this is a “kid show” the whole kidnap and murder business is right out. Despite the fact that it makes not sense, it’s one of those things you have to live with.

Q: How could Katara have learned blood bending so fast?

A: She didn’t, she made Hama sit down, nothing remotely as complicated as Hama’s expert manipulation of her victims.

Q: Would it not be impossible to capture a water-bender, as they could always use their own body fluids to acquire “bendables”, and doesn’t that leave a big plot hole in this episode and in 307 for that matter?

A: Yes, but again you have to remember it’s a “kid show” some might be uneasy about a character throwing about globs of her own urine. If you really need to justify it further you could say the fire nation guard kept the water-benders on such a short leash that they took steps to remove an bodily fluids almost immediately, and they just were not expecting to be literally possessed when Hama mastered her blood-bending. Not a perfect explanation I know.

However it would make for one of those Sokka moments if you could show it on nick,
Sokka: “ah, Katara…where did you get the yel…”
Katara: “shut-up”
Sokka: “yes ma’am”

Q: Ok this whole blood-bending thing is stupid, Why wouldn’t a water-bender simply desiccate any enemy he meets, and why does it only work on the full moon? Water is water, doesn’t matter where it is right?

A: One must remember that benders abide by two sets of laws, one purely physically in nature, but there is also a spiritual component. I theorize that when one imbibes water it becomes a part of your “self” and is subject to protection by your conscious, so much so that a water-bender has to be at his peak to overcome this protection, and even then not completely. This is supported by the show itself, we see that Hama can possess rats but not simply desiccate them, the rat’s rudimentary consciousness prevents her form doing so, they are more susceptible to the technique then say a human. This explanation still allows a water-bender to pull water form living things (sometimes explosively) such as trees and grass, as those plants have no conscious to protect them.

Oh, I love doing these.

1. She's nuts. She got locked in a prison for years; heck, they had to chain her up to drink water. It wasn't really about the Fire Nation anymore. It was about getting revenge by treating others the way she was treated.

2. You've pretty much solved this one. Plus, you have to remember that Katara is a very talented bender. It only took her a few months at the North Pole to nearly master Waterbending.

3. I figure that the prisoners are kept in an almost constant state of dehydration. If you have to chain someone up to give them a glass of water, then you probably aren't giving them one very often. Plus, if they keep the air nice and dry, any water they could use would evaporate pretty quickly.

4. I figure the purity of material has something to do with it. The more impure a substance is, the tougher it is to bend. For instance, metal has very little earth left in it, which is why it takes an exceptionally powerful bender to move what's left. Blood contains a bunch of stuff that isn't water, so only an exceptionally powerful Waterbender would be able to do it.

[Job]

Those all make sense as well, I salute you h_v.

[dehro]

...Dude. Forgotten (http://screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/220/672.jpg) already? No Hollywood Healing (http://screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/220/672.jpg) in this show.

indeed... I've only seen the last episodes of the second book in bits and pieces, since they took it offline when I was just about watching them.

but yeah...I should have remembered.

[Green Bean]

It looks like episode 10 has a sneak preview (http://www.livevideo.com/video/8864DA3B7861408DA7B0A291417D5CE9/the-invasion-sneak-peek.aspx) available. Sweet! :smallsmile:

[dehro]

It looks like episode 10 has a sneak preview (http://www.livevideo.com/video/8864DA3B7861408DA7B0A291417D5CE9/the-invasion-sneak-peek.aspx) available. Sweet! :smallsmile:

is it just me or is the boulder based on that wrestling guy who died last year?

also...haru with a mustache?...hilarious, frankly..

does anyone know how come the black sun episode was being delayed this much?

edit:however, I'm gonna snatch something from there, for my siggy...

yay...found both new episodes...(dunno if I should post the link to them... is it against the rules or something?)

[Green Bean]

is it just me or is the boulder based on that wrestling guy who died last year?

I think that it's this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwayne_Johnson).

[Attilargh]

Yup. And he's voiced by this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Foley).

[Green Bean]

Yup. And he's voiced by this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Foley).

Wow. Just when I thought the Boulder couldn't get any more ridiculous, I find out he was voiced by a guy who called himself Dude Love. :smalltongue:

[dehro]

Wow. Just when I thought the Boulder couldn't get any more ridiculous, I find out he was voiced by a guy who called himself Dude Love. :smalltongue:

hilarious..but...wait:smallconfused: did the rock talk like that when he was a wrestler? (never watched it)

[Attilargh]

Ayup. Observe:

Tonight The Rock is going to play movie director, and let you see firsthand the unedited, uncut version of The Rock's major motion picture, entitled 'Laying The Smackdown on Your Roody-Poo Candy Ass!' And when it's all said and done, and all the smoke has cleared, and the millions and the millions of The Rock's fans have finished chanting his name, the Titanic will still be sunk, Monica Lewinsky will still love her cigars, and The Rock will have kicked the living piss out of Mankind!
I am not making this up.

[Green Bean]

Ayup. Observe:

I am not making this up.

Of course, this crosses the line twice (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.CrossesTheLineTwice) in terms of utter ridiculousness, so now I think he's awesome.

[dehro]

Of course, this crosses the line twice (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.CrossesTheLineTwice) in terms of utter ridiculousness, so now I think he's awesome.

"excuse me, the boulder is confused" ??? of course he's awesome..:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[Nerd-o-rama]

"The Boulder and The Hippo no longer fight for others' amusement. Now, they fight for their kingdom!"

Yes, Day of Black Sun I & II have been broadcast in England, and I've observed them. If Sky or BBC or whoever wants to get uptight about it, I'll send them the five cents of advertising revenue I'd have represented.

Well, Zuko's still an idiot, but at least he's not evil. Also, he should take some lessons from his sister in Just Shoot Him Already (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.WhyDontYaJustShootHim). But, I guess that'd have been kinda cheap for the audience.

I question the strategic soundness of the good guys' surrender at the end, but I was really more concerned with ZOMG Zeppelins.

All in all, it could have turned out worse for the good guys. I mean, it's the middle of the season. They weren't going to win.

[Green Bean]

((Black Sun Spoilers))

You know, when Zuko

Had his Heel-Face Turn, I could hear the fangirls squeeing from across the Internet. :smallamused:

[hanzo66]

Saw the episodes as well...


They're not bad.

[drawingfreak]

Those episodes were crap in my pants awesome.

That said, I need to go take care of something.

[Gungnir]

Figures the Earthies finally figure out the whole tank thing, only to be completely outclassed by the Zeps.

[Icewalker]

I've seen very few episodes of the show, actually, but it is quite good. I really like the basic idea of the power the most.

[Job]

is it wrong that every episode I prey Toph gets shot with an arrow and dies shortly thereafter. I love the character, but someone need to die, and that seems a very honorable and logical way for her to go. And yes I know the odds of Nick letting the 13 year old disabled kid get killed is zill

[Rogue 7]

It would be apropriate, but only if Toph gets to take out about 300 Firebenders first.

Also, God I love Youtube. Just watched ep. 9 (LOVED the Momo/Apa duel) and am in the middle of ep. 10.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Toph does seem to be number one on a lot of fans' death pools...mostly because she's much more likely to die than any of the other main characters, as opposed to actual dislike of the character.

Really, though, if they're going to kill her off, it better be from something besides a stray arrow. Heroic sacrifice, particularly to save Sokka, would be sufficiently cliché. The trouble is finding something that can realistically kill her, given her established abilities.

[drawingfreak]

Response to other spoiler tag posts:
I wouldn't want Toph to bite it. I love her too much as a character to see her go at this point in her life. Frankly, with the feel this show has, I doubt any of the 4 are in any danger at all.
Iroh though...Iroh has "going to die" written all over him. But he is going to take so many baddies out with him it isn't even going to be funny. I'm currently imagining him telling the kids to run and then...mushroom cloud.

[Kojiro Kakita]

Now if they kill off Iroh, I wouldn't be that surprised since his previous voice actor died, "OT: RIP Mako, Hamayu isn't the same without you."

[Attilargh]

Iroh's going to die, but not because Mako passed away. It's because he's so damn buff at the moment that him dying would be a really shocking demonstration of the villains' power. (Pun? What pun? :smallbiggrin:)

Or maybe Zuko will kill him. Just for the lulz (http://sora-ko.deviantart.com/art/Avatar-For-the-lulz-44658978).

[Jerthanis]

Spoils for Invasion episodes

I really liked these episodes, except that 1.) Azula knew about it somehow, and got to act like she was a manipulator and some kind of badass. A friend tells me Azula was in a room with someone who explained the Eclipse/invasion plans, but I don't recall it. It seemed like more of Azula's 3rd season unexplained omniscience in action to me. and 2.) Who cares if there's no eclipse anymore, Sokka, Aang and Toph could totally take a lone firebender, no matter how good at firebending he is. The whole place was underground, they could just crush him under half the mountain if they were desperate. They had no reason to flee except that there are more episodes left in this season. Not that I'm complaining at the existence of more episodes of this epic-win show, but it did feel a little contrived that Aang worked himself up to fight and to not run away or fail people again... and then he gave up, ran away, and failed people again. And finally 3.) The Azula room and resulting awesome acrobatic chase/fight was a room filled with two generic, nameless earthbending foes, when there are two bodyguards of Azula who have had notably less screen time in this season, and are uniquely suited to defending someone during a solar eclipse as they aren't benders. It was the perfect setup to use Mai and Ty-Lee, yet they didn't.


Also, an earlier post of mine said that I was still waiting for an episode of Avatar that met or exceeded the bar set by previous seasons... the episode that really made the season, like episodes of seasons 1 and 2, like the Fortuneteller, and Toph's intro episode. Season 3 now has those episodes IMHO.

[Nerd-o-rama]

As for point one, Azula was told about the eclipse when she and her sidekicks were disguised as the Kiyoshi gals toward the end of Season 2, remember? Although really, they could have managed it with semicompetent astronomy.

Point two...well, Ozai is, via Informed Ability (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.InformedAbility), the baddest-ass bender in existence, whom only a fully-realized Avatar can take in a fair fight. I guess Aang just decided to take Destiny's word for it and come back another day when he can Firebend.

And now that you mention it, using Dai Li mooks instead of the aforementioned sidekicks was a bit odd...just what were Mai and Ty Lee doing that whole time, anyway? I guess the lack of named opponents was so that the heroes could beat them in a timely fashion and corner Azula, and not worry about keeping the bodyguards conscious/alive to recur.

[Attilargh]

The Earth King blabbed the plans to Azula in disguise (http://screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/219/068.jpg) at the beginning of "The Guru".

Also, I have a feeling Ty Lee and Mai are very busy doing something else somewhere to really cement Azula's position as the Chessmaster (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChessmaster). In the Western Air Temple, for instance, or tracking down the Combustion Man.

[dehro]

I've heard/read every kind of swooning and drooling girls comparing Haru to Jack Sparrow...:smallconfused:
I think these two episodes are way better than some of the latest...as much as I liked the momo vs appa fight, the whole episode was a bit useless and had filler written all over it. also it was a complete break from a graphic point of view... It's nice that the authors do not take themself too seriously and remember that they are, after all, making a cartoon, but with a work of this quality, it was a bit uncalled for.
it would have been funny though, if Aang had overslept the invasion...

Iroh must not die!! seriously... he must not!...I'm afraid he will, though:smallfrown: :smallfrown: ..then again..why should he? he's older than ozai but still very fit... has more experience as a warrior and general... has been seen training recently, and is generally awesomeness made person.
and he likes tea.
I don't want him to die...if nothing else because he's a species in danger of extintion... a firebender with a sense of humor..
I'm still afraid he might die...
but I also totally figure him beating the crap out of his little brother and getting the trone back...in zuko's favor.

retreating was sensible... aang might have been able to find the firelord, given enough time to locate him... but for every lost second, more of his friends and allies would die... and his chances of being swarmed by a hoard of highly skilled firebenders would increase.
when you realize you are falling in a trap, first you run, then you plan your next move..not the other way around.
tai lee was in there for "the mission".. now they've concluded it there was no reason to remain at azula's side ...same for the other chick...
because, officially, the avatar is dead...and keeping them close would arise suspicion on azula

[Green Bean]

You guys have forgotten the most important revelation of the episode, a revelation so important yet unrevealing out of context that I don't even need to spoiler it!

Azula is a 400 ft tall purple platypus bear with pink horns and silver wings!

[Rogue 7]

My god, that was cool. My only complaint is that epic battles don't really lend themselves to kid's shows- there was clear evidence of Never Say Die (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.NeverSayDie) in full effect, and in reality, they should have been dropping left and right. Also, Sokka didn't have enough, to quote Erfworld, "Hack-Slash-Carve-Stabbity-Chop Chop". Dude's got a kickass sword, the least he could have done was gutted Azula for me. Smart thing for the Fire Nation to do is clearly, execute the invasion force on sight, but I guess a bit of meta-knowledge that no one can die in a kids show protects them.

Other than that, their plan was fairly solid. I would've had as many benders as I could get, but time was something of a limitation, I guess. Pity they couldn't get more waterbenders, but it's nice to know that someone can out tank the fire nation (at least until the freakin' Star Destroyers show up).

Let's go with a bit of character analysis and impressions.

Aang- suitably badass-monk looking with the new costume. Shoddy tactics on the attack- if everyone hadn't left the city, he'd have had a much harder fight. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have gone in alone- the Avatar's a force to be reckoned with, but merely that he should've waited until the force was drawing more attention. Minor fault, easily excuseable. That bit with Katara- It's about damn time, boy!

Sokka- very nice plan, the subs in particular were a stroke of genius. Tanks made it so that a smaller force could overcome a superior one. Well done. No complaints that I can think of- there really wasn't anything he could do against Star Destroyers (that's my name for 'em, and I'm sticking to it). Once again I'll complain he didn't get enough screen time hackin' and slashin', but whatcha gonna do, ne? Very nice character development, though- significant need to prove himself, does so very well, and still cares for Suki. All in all, Sokka's pure awesome and win. Also very cool armor- love the wolf-helm theme going on. (Maybe some seal thing for south-poleness)

Katara- Meh, she really didn't do much in this one (for which I'm actually kinda glad). Nothing you can really say, nothing new here, but nice to see that Aang didn't really distract her very much.

Toph- again, nothing new here. Awesome metalbending and earthsense, and she's definitely proved her worth on the team, but should have taken Azula down faster. Meh.

Zuko- Very nice character development here- he's finally come to his senses. I only hope that Mai will side with him- dude deserves a girl after all the hell he's been through. Oh, and a firebender with dual scimitars- how is that not badass? Nice to see him finally shake off all illusions about his father, and have them shattered even further. Boy's gonna make a good firelord, methinks. Oh, and lightning deflection? Utter awesome. This is what Zuko should be, and I'm damn glad he is.

Azula- First things first, that one scene where she's 2 inches from Sokka? Soooo creepy. Magnificent B**tard once again, she really shouldn't have survived as long as she did. Sokka needed to gut her when she was talking about Suki, but see above, Kid's show and all. She's the utter Magnificent, manipulative chessmaster, there's really nothing you can say. "Oh, Looks like the Firebending's back on"? Priceless.

Iroh- Even without firebending, you're still utterly badass. I suspect a fortunate convergence- the moment Aang and the group (plus Zuko) attack the firelord, Iroh and the White Lotus society are going to mount a simultaneous attack. How can you not love this guy?

Invasion Force- nothing to say here, damn brave of them to surrender like they did.

[drawingfreak]

Was Mark Hamil's voice acting not the best ever? I was half expecting Ozai to start calling Zuko "Batsy".

One more thing, the episodes needed more Boulder. "The Boulder is confused." :smallbiggrin:

[Gungnir]

Umm, well, I was about to say that Azula would keep the invasion force alive because then she had a way to lure Aang back before he can spend a year or two mastering all of his bending skills to an even greater degree. Then I remembered that Sepiroth's Souzen's Comet is still on the way. Guess the only thing keeping them alive is plot armor. By the way, anyone know how long they have before the comet comes along?

[drawingfreak]

O_O I forgot about the comet. Ballz.

[Gungnir]

Yea, its cool how they pushed the comet out of your mind like that. If I hadn't been posting in this thread and actively thinking about the plot, I'd never have remembered. It's like Azula knowing about the attack; it was obvious, everyone knows the Earth King told her about it, but how many people considered that while watching the last two episodes?

[dehro]

:smalleek: omfg
I can't believe tha I only just now realised that boulder actually means rock...how stupid...:smallmad:

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Ok, this is pure speculation on my part but tell me if you think it is a real possibility or if I am just smoking crack...

Iroh is the/a 'grand master' of the White Lotus. The white lotus appears to be a secret society that spans the nations and has their own rules and loyalties. They also appear to have a philosophy that is very 'avatar'-ish in nature. I think that Iroh explains lots of this in Bitter Work.

Also, recalling the Guru from the end of book 2, he tells ang that the separation of all things is an illusion...such as the separation of the nations, and the separation of the elements. All are one.

Now...what makes people of a certian nation able to bend? If people are poeple regardless of where they come from...and bending can be taught to anyone...why can't any person from any nation learn how to bend any element? Moreover...what would stop someone from learning to bend more than one element? Maybe it requires a teacher, and the nations jealously guard the secrets...but perhaps an underground group has been sharing the secrets between themselves, those devoted to the Avatar and what s/he represents.

Combine that with Iroh showing Zuko a technique he learned from the waterbenders, from studying them. What if he did more than just analyze their style...what if members of the white lotus learn the other forms of bending...what if the grand masters posess all four forms of bending?

I say this because when Zuko arrived at the tower to free his uncle, it was right after the eclipse ended. Maybe no more than a few minutes. Iroh escaped before Zuko arrived...probably during the eclipse. Now...if he escaped when firebending would work, you would think the cell would have been burned through, or there be melted bars...but the cell was bent outwards from the inside. Like someone hit it with a massive object, or used metalbending/earthbending to blast open the door. An explosion powerful enough to blow the door would have caused a huge backblast (though one could explain that with more bending)...but the alternative is quite interesting. Iroh might be capable of multiple styles of bending...maybe even all of them.

So...am I crazy...or might that actually be worth pondering...

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Toph does seem to be number one on a lot of fans' death pools...mostly because she's much more likely to die than any of the other main characters, as opposed to actual dislike of the character.

Really, though, if they're going to kill her off, it better be from something besides a stray arrow. Heroic sacrifice, particularly to save Sokka, would be sufficiently cliché. The trouble is finding something that can realistically kill her, given her established abilities.

Wouldn't be too hard, as long as the person in question is not touching the ground, she would have a VERY difficult time figuring out what is going on. I can only assume that she can tell the moves of certian people by their stance and body motions, cause otherwise, I don't see how she could effectively fight against the likes of a Firebender, or against a Waterbender that isn't standing on firm ground. So, in this case...arrows raining from an airship, dropped bombs, or fire from the sky could easily catch her off guard.

In the long run, Iroh is most likely to get killed, along with Ozai and possibly a few others. Sokka is a good 50% as far as I'm concerned, though I think that he'll live and so will Toph. People would just be disgusted if they got rid of Aang or Kitara, so they stay...Azula noone would complain about...

Sokka/Kitara's dad along with some of the other adults that have helped them in the past ar fair game. I the final battle, anyone is expendable.

[dehro]

Wouldn't be too hard, as long as the person in question is not touching the ground, she would have a VERY difficult time figuring out what is going on. I can only assume that she can tell the moves of certian people by their stance and body motions, cause otherwise, I don't see how she could effectively fight against the likes of a Firebender, or against a Waterbender that isn't standing on firm ground. So, in this case...arrows raining from an airship, dropped bombs, or fire from the sky could easily catch her off guard.

In the long run, Iroh is most likely to get killed, along with Ozai and possibly a few others. Sokka is a good 50% as far as I'm concerned, though I think that he'll live and so will Toph. People would just be disgusted if they got rid of Aang or Kitara, so they stay...Azula noone would complain about...

Sokka/Kitara's dad along with some of the other adults that have helped them in the past ar fair game. I the final battle, anyone is expendable.
nah..it's a cartoon...I don't see how any of the recurring characters could bite it. the only one that has potentially "dead man walking" written over him is, sadly, Iroh, because of the idea that victory comes at a cost, but not too much of it (he is quite old already..so there are a lot of spirit bolstering things he could say as last words...because he "is" going to get a last words speech)
the villains now... well I guess Azula and Ozai are goners..but it is not granted..the Avatar could somehow cramp their powers and banish them.

as for the white lotus theory:
it would not work... bending an element that is not "national" is against the rules and against the plot for anyone but the avatar. that is what makes the avatar so unique..and gives the plot a purpose..or the white lotus would have done something more than playing pai sho for a hunderd years..they would not have sit by and watch.
the white lotus is about wisdom, knowledge and spirtual unity... sokka's master says as much when he talks about the art of the sword being not bound by national boundaries.
And I don't think he is a bender at all, or that most of the other members could do much more than throw a hot teapot at an opponent. (I love the notion, however, of a batallion of mixed benders and fighters, under the white lotus ensigna coming to the aid of the Avatar)
they could play a rule, but not in a multibender style, or the whole cartoon would be pointless. bending seems to be a natural gift..something like a predisposition for, dunno... acting, or maths or gymnastics.. but with further reaching consequences..
not everybody has it.
I wonder what would happen if two benders from different nations and elements married and had children... what would happen then? I think none of them would be benders..or they would take after only one of their parents.

Iroh has learned a new technique by observing the waterbenders..true... but he is not bending water when he applies it ... he just takes a principle, taking something in and pushing it out the other way,...where normally the firebender only "pushes out".. but he is performing stances and shifting fire energy. that same technique would not work against benders of other elements. nor could it be practiced by benders of other elements (except the avatar of course) because what it does is to shape and move fire energy around .
btw... Iroh is, if I remember correctly "a grandmaster"..suggesting there might be several..a bit like being an 8th dan black belt at karate
I do not know if he is the ultimate leader of the order, that is I believe mostly concerned with spiritual and philosophical issues, rather than anything material...anyway, they "will" have a role of a kind, or they would not be hinted at now and then through the whole cartoon

[dehro]

I feel the need to point out that firelord Ozai is probably a feasible match for Aang even now..
he might be the strongest firebender in the nation (though I don't remember it ever being specifically stated, azula and iroh might be not the only ones strong enough to battle him)...but that does not mean so much..toph is very likely to be the strongest earthbender around (except maybe king boomi) and she gets easily beaten by Aang.
the problem with facing Ozai is that he has a freaking huge army all around him all the time and to get to him you have to get rid of those first.
Only the comet could give the Firelord (and several others I guess) the power to defeat Aang...untill the comet has passed...
Aang has to beat him before that, however, for the simple reason that if they wait for the comet, they will have to face all the nations and have no place to rest anywhere, since the firenation will have it's man everywhere..
even the avatar can not fight all the time, nor fight whole armies...
this is the only reason I think...
otherwise the Avatar could just sit and wait for the comet to pass..and fight the firelord when he's ready..

I'm trying to convince myself that the plot is not utterly flawed...:smalleek: :smalleek: I am right, am I not?

[Fuzzy_Juan]

nah..it's a cartoon...I don't see how any of the recurring characters could bite it. the only one that has potentially "dead man walking" written over him is, sadly, Iroh, because of the idea that victory comes at a cost, but not too much of it (he is quite old already..so there are a lot of spirit bolstering things he could say as last words...because he "is" going to get a last words speech)
the villains now... well I guess Azula and Ozai are goners..but it is not granted..the Avatar could somehow cramp their powers and banish them.

as for the white lotus theory:
it would not work... bending an element that is not "national" is against the rules and against the plot for anyone but the avatar. that is what makes the avatar so unique..and gives the plot a purpose..or the white lotus would have done something more than playing pai sho for a hunderd years..they would not have sit by and watch.
the white lotus is about wisdom, knowledge and spirtual unity... sokka's master says as much when he talks about the art of the sword being not bound by national boundaries.
And I don't think he is a bender at all, or that most of the other members could do much more than throw a hot teapot at an opponent. (I love the notion, however, of a batallion of mixed benders and fighters, under the white lotus ensigna coming to the aid of the Avatar)
they could play a rule, but not in a multibender style, or the whole cartoon would be pointless. bending seems to be a natural gift..something like a predisposition for, dunno... acting, or maths or gymnastics.. but with further reaching consequences..
not everybody has it.
I wonder what would happen if two benders from different nations and elements married and had children... what would happen then? I think none of them would be benders..or they would take after only one of their parents.

Iroh has learned a new technique by observing the waterbenders..true... but he is not bending water when he applies it ... he just takes a principle, taking something in and pushing it out the other way,...where normally the firebender only "pushes out".. but he is performing stances and shifting fire energy. that same technique would not work against benders of other elements. nor could it be practiced by benders of other elements (except the avatar of course) because what it does is to shape and move fire energy around .
btw... Iroh is, if I remember correctly "a grandmaster"..suggesting there might be several..a bit like being an 8th dan black belt at karate
I do not know if he is the ultimate leader of the order, that is I believe mostly concerned with spiritual and philosophical issues, rather than anything material...anyway, they "will" have a role of a kind, or they would not be hinted at now and then through the whole cartoon

Heh...like I said...mainly just a wild theory. There are alot of holes in it...but maybe there is a hint of merit in there...

I am wondering who is left to help them defeat the fire lord. There is Boomie, the Swamp man (who presumably could have gotten away), The Earth king with whatever refugees/army remnants they can scrap together, any extra people left at the Northern Air temple, the northern water tribe, Sand Benders.

Also...With Zuko and Iroh on the loose...I am wondering what others they might be able to bring to bear...other members of the White Lotus...loyal Fire Nation troops to Zuko/Iroh...The Exiled Fire bending master...

So many possibilities

[Gungnir]

Don't forget, Aang is a firebender too, so Souzen's Comet will fill him with Win just like all the other firebenders.

[Callos_DeTerran]

...Azula noone would complain about...


...I would complain! Very much so! >.> I always like villians more then the good guys, and Avatar has never been the exception. Plus I've always loved shows that threw a curveball in at the very end (Most notably that the good guys don't win (Haven't seen it) or that the good guys die doing it (Have seen it) )and Azula is plot-savvy enough to make that a real possibility...or she might once I see these new ones everyone is talking about.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

...I would complain! Very much so! >.> I always like villians more then the good guys, and Avatar has never been the exception. Plus I've always loved shows that threw a curveball in at the very end (Most notably that the good guys don't win (Haven't seen it) or that the good guys die doing it (Have seen it) )and Azula is plot-savvy enough to make that a real possibility...or she might once I see these new ones everyone is talking about.

Want one where the good guys don't win? Maybe try 'Berserk' the animated series from the Manga...at the end, I would say survives doesn't equal 'win'. It is brutal and twisted in the best possible way. (btw, that doesn't give away the ending because the first episode is the 'future' and the whole series is a flashback that ends when the first episode starts...one of those WTF...ohh, that's why sorta things. But what a ride)

in a nutshell...crazy battle in which you wonder WTF?!?!...then flashback, the hero's journy, mentorship, learning, growing, climbing action to victory, complications, victory, more complication, tragedy, renewal of hope, victory, more tragedy, OMGWTFBBQ?!?!?, circular resolution.

Oh yes...and it is good.

Man...one thing about Ozai just bugged me though and I couldn't figure out what until I saw someone's post...Mark Hamill...no wonder I knew that voice. Now I keep expecting him to start laughing meniacally though :smallbiggrin:

[Green Bean]

Man...one thing about Ozai just bugged me though and I couldn't figure out what until I saw someone's post...Mark Hamill...no wonder I knew that voice. Now I keep expecting him to start laughing meniacally though :smallbiggrin:

Ozai's the Joker? That is awesome in fifteen different ways, three of which can only be expressed in song.

[Rogue 7]

Oh, he's not just the joker. He's also Luke Freakin' Skywalker. No, Zuko. I am your mother!

[Green Bean]

Oh, he's not just the joker. He's also Luke Freakin' Skywalker. No, Zuko. I am your mother!

True. But in my heart, Joker > Skywalker.

[drawingfreak]

Next thing ya know, Azula will be calling Ozai "Mistah O".

[bosssmiley]

Next thing ya know, Azula will be calling Ozai "Mistah O".

Someone just put the image of Azula in a Harley Quinn costume in my mind...



...



...



Mmmmmmmmm. :smallbiggrin:

Err, where was I?

Also, Iroh is the best thing in "Avatar" and must (for the sake of all that is good and holy in character arcs) redeem Zuko through his heroic exemplary death. Oriental happy ending is always win.

[Nerd-o-rama]

...I would complain! Very much so! >.> I always like villians more then the good guys, and Avatar has never been the exception. Plus I've always loved shows that threw a curveball in at the very end (Most notably that the good guys don't win (Haven't seen it) or that the good guys die doing it (Have seen it) )and Azula is plot-savvy enough to make that a real possibility...or she might once I see these new ones everyone is talking about.
If you want good guys losing, the closest you'll generally get in western literature/art is tragedies with Villain Protagonists. Heroic tragedies, they usually accomplish something then die (Achilles, Hamlet). Villain Protagonists are generally thwarted (MacBeth). Take your pick.

Japanese cartoons, on the other hand, can get downright depressing. Evangelion, Big O, the aforementioned Berserk...they're a lot more willing to end the world in their fiction, if nothing else.

And yes, I did just bring up Shakespeare and Studio Gainax in the same discussion. This is a comparison of themes, not quality.

Someone just put the image of Azula in a Harley Quinn costume in my mind...



...



...



Mmmmmmmmm. :smallbiggrin:

Err, where was I?
I guarantee it's on Deviantart somewhere.

[drawingfreak]

I guarantee it's on Deviantart somewhere.
Well, I'm sure it is NOW.

[Green Bean]

Well, I'm sure it is NOW.

Closest I found was this (http://nandireya.deviantart.com/art/We-can-be-heroes-51719977), and it's Ty Lee in the costume. On the plus side, Azula's Catwoman. :smallbiggrin:

[Gungnir]

Catwoman isn't nearly evil enough for Azula. Slade might be.

[Job]

310-311:
It’s what happens when everyone on the cast grows a pair.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

310-311:
It’s what happens when everyone on the cast grows a pair.

huh?

Just curious...given someone's actions on the day of black sun...

Does anyone else think that it might be likely that Ang and company don't have to defeat Ozai...but Azula?

[Rogue 7]

huh?

Just curious...given someone's actions on the day of black sun...

Does anyone else think that it might be likely that Ang and company don't have to defeat Ozai...but Azula?

Nah, not in my mind, especially seeing the sheer amount of lightning Ozai put out. Azula's no match for Aang one-on-one, particularly if Zuko teaches Aang Firebending. Toph or Katara, even, could probably take her. Besides, with Zuzu now a complete traitor, her ascent to the throne seems secure. It wouldn't be very prudent to attempt a coup when you can just wait for dear old dad to bite it naturally

[Gungnir]

Nah, not in my mind, especially seeing the sheer amount of lightning Ozai put out. Azula's no match for Aang one-on-one, particularly if Zuko teaches Aang Firebending. Toph or Katara, even, could probably take her. Besides, with Zuzu now a complete traitor, her ascent to the throne seems secure. It wouldn't be very prudent to attempt a coup when you can just wait for dear old dad to bite it naturally

You do realize that you're talking about a girl who was happy to find out that her mother killed her grandfather, assuring Ozai's ascent to the throne. Also, judging by her performance in episode 11, she's been practicing. Like, every single time she hasn't been onscreen. Furthermore, blue firebending.

[Green Bean]

You do realize that you're talking about a girl who was happy to find out that her mother killed her grandfather, assuring Ozai's ascent to the throne. Also, judging by her performance in episode 11, she's been practicing. Like, every single time she hasn't been onscreen. Furthermore, blue firebending.

True, but she doesn't seem to be the type to fight when she doesn't need to. If she kills her father, she'll have to deal with any of his remaining supporters, plus any others who want the job too. It's much easier just to wait until Daddy bites it naturally (or fighting the Avatar). At least that way she has a legitimate claim to the throne.

[Gungnir]

True, but she doesn't seem to be the type to fight when she doesn't need to. If she kills her father, she'll have to deal with any of his remaining supporters, plus any others who want the job too. It's much easier just to wait until Daddy bites it naturally (or fighting the Avatar). At least that way she has a legitimate claim to the throne.

I kinda hope she uses Aang's reappearance to kill him, and then just say Aang succeeded when he broke into the bunker. It won't happen, because I don't think they can just come out and say someone was killed (in cold blood no less), given the target audience. Heck, the entire assault on the Capitol resulted in one casualty, and that was just Pops getting singed (or shrapnelled, perhaps).

[Nerd-o-rama]

I theorized for a while that Azula was going to usurp the throne and become the BBEG, but I think if that was going to happen, it would have happened during the Day of Black Sun. In fact, I expected that to be the case as soon as she showed up on the throne. It's a bit late in the series for her to do it now, though, and she missed her best opportunity to knock him off with her pet Earthbenders.

[Rogue 7]

*chuckles to himself*

I was looking over at the "Avatar Spirit" sight, signed up earlier but doubt I'll post there much. Anyways, what with the leaked DOBS episodes (there will be no spoilers without tags, don't worry), there's been a lot of debate, ne? The mods are actually banning people pretty much for admitting they've seen them. I'm tempted to post that I watched it because I really don't care one way or another, but it's amusing to watch the 12-year-olds get all puffed up with moral indignation because some people got to see an episode "illegally". I'm as straight-laced as they come, and I still don't care that I saw it early. I don't particularly get why they have such a strong reaction, barring sinister Viacom conspiracy.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Dude, it's Viacom. There's always a conspiracy. Look at MTV and tell me there aren't subliminal pro-government messages all over the place.

[Human Paragon 3]

I hate the fact that I can't go to avatar message boards to to spoilerage. That is all.

P.S. Thanks for using the spoiler tags, everybody.

[Rogue 7]

Wrote up my response just now- it's in the spoilers forum under something like "ALL AVATARDS NEED TO READ THIS", better hurry up before the mods get it.:smallwink: Name of Rogue_Firebender, for a combination of both my usual internet name and a very cool character concept I came up with (If an Avatar PbP using EigthSeraph's rules ever gets off the ground, that's what I'll be playing). That aside, I told them all to get off their high horses about illegal episodes, and that it was the most serious case of mod overreaction I've ever seen. (Might be something for TV-tropes- I'll take a look around)

Edit- oh, and it's generally just polite to use the spoilertags. Juris, I don't know if they're still online, but if you want to find Day of Black Sun, try googling it- worked for me.

[pendejochy]

Ah, I didn't get to it in time, and when I looked for it, it was already scrubbed. :smallfrown:

Well, while I agree that seeing the episodes illegally isn't that big of a deal, I can understand and respect it if the mods would prefer to not have it discussed....

Still, the fact that people are going though so much trouble to get the episodes leaked (I imagine it wasn't easy) just goes to show how popular Avatar is getting. :D

But....seeing the leaked episodes just makes the wait for episode 12 of season 3 that more excruciating!

[Manticorkscrew]

Avatar has become my new favourite show. And I think Sokka is my favourite character. He's just so funny. :smallbiggrin:

About the day of Black Sun...

It seems that subtlety continues to evade Prince Zuko, though. If I were him, I'd have left the castle quietly, without revealing my treachery to anyone. That way, it would have left everyone (the viewers as well as Azula and Firel Lord Ozai) guessing as to whether Zuko really had made his heel/face turn.

But, I guess we'd been waiting long enough, and I wanted to see Zuko stand up to his father, so... um, I suppose it was in character.

[dehro]

I've found this (http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=hfzKeMcSh80) spoof, and I quite liked it's concept.

one question though...

if Iroh is the dragon of the west..then who is the dragon of the east? wuold that be his brother?
I guess there has to be one or it'd be useless to make the distinction..
..but it also might not refer to the firenation "internally" but to the position of the firenation related to the other nations.... but I do not remember the map of the setting...

[13_CBS]

A little search on youtube dug up this little gem:

Dance baby dance! (http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=trxYdx5uHKk&feature=related)

[Jerthanis]

A little search on youtube dug up this little gem:

Dance baby dance! (http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=trxYdx5uHKk&feature=related)

I lol'ed

Also, I'm not surprised they only needed to loop one or two shots to bring all the dance footage in the series to the full 4 minute mark. And that's before there even WAS the episode ABOUT dancing.

[Marlock94]

I like the show, its only they should have a, almost like, a 2 hour, or something, long animated movie. that would be awesome. I am a fan of avatar the last airbender, i like the character designs and how some people can control an element. Anyway, I just think they sould come out with an animated movie, like a REAL movie not a TV movie.

[chionophile]

I like the show, its only they should have a, almost like, a 2 hour, or something, long animated movie. that would be awesome. I am a fan of avatar the last airbender, i like the character designs and how some people can control an element. Anyway, I just think they sould come out with an animated movie, like a REAL movie not a TV movie.

You (and everyone else here) may be interested in this (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117956950.html?categoryid=13&cs=1).

[Solo]

Argh! Why didn't you just put your sword in Azula when you had the chance to, Sokka? I would have stabbed her if I had been in your position and ended it all right there.

[Attilargh]

Yeah, that was a dumb moment. Not really because Sokka didn't stab her, but because we all know Sokka can't stab her on a kids' show. Why did they even bother writing that, really? (Yeah, yeah, gotta know Suki's still alive.)

[13_CBS]

Oooh! A spoiler for the next episode:

http://www.avatar10.proboards91.com/index.cgi?board=fire&action=display&thread=1196510727

[Rogue 7]

Seems to have way too much for 22 minutes. And $10 says Azula's going to survive somehow

[Skyrocket]

This being a kids' show I really doubt many characters are going to bite it before things are over. This show has had a fairly low body count so far.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

This being a kids' show I really doubt many characters are going to bite it before things are over. This show has had a fairly low body count so far.

Noone dies unless you see the dead body with a decent on screen killin'. Suki...she was fine, Uwe...'dead'...the fish...dead (got better!)...

Never count someone dead unless you know for a FACT that they are dead...I can say pretty much that lil' miss azure flames will be alive and well...but likely scarred worse than Zuko from the inferno and pissed.

I like the idea of the White Lotus as a secret society to overthrow the Fire Lord...Iroh as rightful king...fun...Yeah, he is gonna die too...

If there are airbenders then...perhaps they will introduce that extra as a master of air to teach aang some extra airbending...perhaps it also portends a book 4: Air...as a final chapter where the air Nomads come back and lead the other nations against the Fire nation and restore the balance.

[Lemur]

So, uh, loose ends?

What about sparky sparky boom combustion man? Did Zuko call him off, or is he still out there?

[Attilargh]

Still out there, I'd wager. Toph probably made it personal when she hit him straight in the eye, so Zuko'll most likely have to help the gang kick his ass.

And Suki will be brainwashed and crazy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrainwashedAndCrazy) by Azula's pet Dai Li agents when our newly dysfunctional band of intrepid heroes reach her.

[Gungnir]

Something tells me Sparky wasn't paid in full when he got hired. That same thing tells me that he'll expect payment even if Zuko calls him off, even if he has to go to a higher authority (Fire Lord/Azula).

Besides, noone on Team Avatar knows how to beat him, and as such, there will be an episode where he attacks again, then 15 minutes later (episode time), Aang/Zuko (Zuko only if he still needs to gain T.A.'s trust) will figure it out and knock him out for good.

[dehro]

if the role of the avatar is to bring balance, I feel that somewhow Aang will find airbenders or "make" some, by the endo of the series.

[13_CBS]

if the role of the avatar is to bring balance, I feel that somewhow Aang will find airbenders or "make" some, by the endo of the series.

And their first child's name was Kataang.

[Rogue 7]

...I figured all they'd need to do to Sparky Sparky Boom Man (too good to pass up) is actually FIGHT, instead of running. I mean, he's not THAT strong. Possibly at Azula's level, and they can take her fairly well.

[RMS Oceanic]

312 - The Western Airtemple broadcast in Canada

(Summary)
- Extended Gaang reach W.A.T., which is upside down on a cliff.
- Zuko also arrives, and views them from afar, and practises his speech to a frog.
- The guys agree that to beat Ozai, Aang has to master Firebending, but they can't think of a teacher.
- Zuko appears, and screws up his introduction badly. Appa takes a liking to him for what happened under Lake Laogai. Toph also believes his sincerity, but Sokka and Katara are furious, so Aang sides with them and tell Zuko to go. He also inadvertantly admits he sent Combustion after them, which doesn't help.
- Toph discusses with them afterwards how they blew a golden opportunity to get Aang a teacher, but Water Tribe kids don't back down. She goes to Zuko's camp to try and talk to him, but he lashes out at her by mistake and burns her feet. Now really blind, she crawls back to the Temple.
- With Tremorsense disabled, CM arrives, and is about to take his shot when Zuko Tarzan-crashes into him, making him miss. He shouts loudly that the mission is over, but CM doesn't listen, and attacks Zuko. Aang watches this. Then Sokka rolls a natural 20 on his boomerang attack and CM gets hit in the tattoo. He tries to fire again, but an explosion envelops him. We see a metal arm flung out.
- Zuko returns to the Gaang, and explains himself more eloquently. His accident with Toph reminds Aang of his own accident with Katara. He agrees that it's Zuko's destiny to teach him, but puts it up to a unanimous vote. Toph agrees so she can get her own back for the accident. Sokka agrees since it will help win the war, and Katara, after a tense moment, agrees to go along with the group decision.
- Sokka shows Zuko to a room, and comments on how weird this is. Then Katara talks to Zuko. She's not fooled by his "transformation", and if it ever looks like he betrays them, she'll kill him.

(My thoughts)
Zutara is now stone dead. Rocks-fall-everyone-dies, congenital-heart-defect-no-save dead. There is no chance in hell that they'll ever be more than fairweather friends or casual acquaintences after that little speech. I can fully see her taking something completely out of context, or even Azula discovering this tension somehow and exploiting it, and she attacks Zuko at a really inappropriate time which puts the whole Gaang in danger. At first, she'll probably be looking for a fight. The end of that speech is just prime "Previously on Avatar..." material.

This episode really showed you Katara's dark side, which was refreshing, as well as a little disturbing. It's one of Katara's character flaws, like when she lied to the group and put a whole town in danger just so she could do what she thought was right. She doesn't forgive treachery, and it takes a lot. A lot. To get over that. For her to trust Zuko as a friend, he'd probably have to singlehandedly defeat Ozai and Azula and raise her Mother from the dead.

Overall, it was a good episode, although the new Earth Kingdom babies were underutilized. That said, it was important to focus on the Gaang-Zuko relationship. And looks like they ended the CM subplot. Despite my earlier misgivings, I hope this new tension in the group doesn't harm them too much.

[Guts]

Causal viewer , so bear with me please:smallsmile: .

Question; do you think ever show Katara's 'overzealousness' in a bad light or
at least cause a problem that was not immediately corrected or overlooked. The closest I feel they've ever gone to doing so was the episode with the poor town in Book 3. Every other character has had their faults/virtues cause a problem or worked against them like Aang's curiosity and child-likeness, Toph's want for freedom from parental control, heck even Azula's over competitive attitude during the beach episode. If your response is "they've already done that' give an example please. If not, post your reasoning as to why they have not and some speculation as to how it might happen.

I hope a made my point clear, English is not my first language and my skill with it sucks.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Cool...Can't wait to see it when it airs in the US.

[Gungnir]

Grrr! My, ah, "source" for watching Avatar does not seem to want to use a video applet that actually works. :smallfurious:

[Nerd-o-rama]

^Yeah, DivX is a bitch.

I enjoyed the episode.

It was a suitable ending (or is it?) for Combustion Man. It was also about the best handling I could see of the "Zuko joins the group" plot. They really shouldn't trust him, especially Katara. Zuko hit her straight in the Messiah (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheMessiah)-tendencies at the end of season 2, and that's going to engage her fury for the rest of the series, if not her life. But, he gets to join through his own sincerity, their desperation, and the just-barely-plausibleness of his change of heart. And (loudly) stopping Combustion Man probably helped. I liked it.

I also like the progression of Aang's teachers. His water-bending master was an ancient and skilled master (with supplemental work by a teen prodigy). His earth-bending was taught entirely by twelve year-old, although she is quite possibly the most powerful earth-bender in the world. His fire-bending master is just a pretty skilled regular warrior who has more psychological issues than the entire protagonist group put together. This is going to be...interesting.
How did I see this? It's good to be back home...In Canada! (Not really)

[Attilargh]

Yeah, no-one could survive that. Not even Zutara or Sparky. Like, totally impossible. :amused:

[Rogue 7]

Links, anyone?

Please?

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Links, anyone?

Please?

links to what? You aren't seriously thinking about going to a torrent site or something are you...cause that would be wrong...:smalltongue:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Besides, it's must safer for our source to tell you to google where to Watch Avatar. A link is a) against board rules and b) might call the attention of the broadcast powers-that-be, who frown on this sort of thing. Apparently, they think we watch the commercials when it's on TV.

And seriously, torrent sites are quite easy to find too.