Alternative Wild-shape rules

[MrStabby]

Druids are great and really good fun but one thing that I do find annoying is that characters don't seem to build up over time. A Shadow monk gains more shadow abilities and more uses of them as they level up and a paladin always maintains the image of a guy smiting his enemies.

One thing I would like is for a druid to select a wildshape at an early level and specialise in it. For example you transform into a spider and get its abilities but at higher levels you maybe get more stat bonuses or DC checks to add to the spider form for example. This means your druid could be more strongly themed as "the guy that turns into a spider" without hampering yourself as you go to higher levels and other forms supersede the spider.

Can anyone suggest changes to the rules for wildshape that would capture this whilst remaining balanced?

A second issue I have with the rules is that wildshape is such a big part of the class that once you start as a druid you are kind of on a bit of a treadmill and can't get off. If you want to build a more complex character concept by multiclassing your wildshape falls into irrelevance (well not true, but combat irrelevance) pretty quickly. I love the idea of being able to use another form to augment the abilities you get from other classes. A tiger assassin or a bear barbarian really appeal to me for some reason.

Unfortunately it cant just scale by character level like cantrips or you run into the warlock problem of everyone running round with two levels of druid (only worse as you don't need particularly high stats to run this).

Can this be supported? How could it be balanced well? Could you have hitpoints and proficiency scale by character level but physical stats remain the same? Simply allow bite/claw attacks to count as weapon attacks?

[Gurka]

I think this may belong in the home-brew section. But be that as it may...

I really liked the Shape Shift alternate class feature for druids from 3.5 in PHII. Basically, it didn't give you a stat block from a different creature, it gave you static bonuses (and limitations) while in shapeshifted form. You unlocked more powerful forms as you leveled up, starting with hunter form, then flight form, slayer form, plant-monster form (think Tree-ent... i can't recall the name) and then elemental form. Each got bigger and more powerful, save for flight form, with bonuses to STR, natural armor, CON, and natural attacks, you could shift at will, but you couldn't use any equipment or cast spells while shifted. Each form was themed, but not tied to a specific creature, so you can stylize it however you like. Big Spider > Flying Spider > Giant Spider > Giant Plant Spider > Huge magma spider!

It gave a very different alternative and played completely different from a wild shape druid, and was a lot of fun. The consensus back then was that it was significantly weaker late game than conventional wild shape, but I honestly didn't mind that. A version tweaked for 5e math might be just what you're looking for.

[MrStabby]

I think this may belong in the home-brew section. But be that as it may...

I really liked the Shape Shift alternate class feature for druids from 3.5 in PHII. Basically, it didn't give you a stat block from a different creature, it gave you static bonuses (and limitations) while in shapeshifted form. You unlocked more powerful forms as you leveled up, starting with hunter form, then flight form, slayer form, plant-monster form (think Tree-ent... i can't recall the name) and then elemental form. Each got bigger and more powerful, save for flight form, with bonuses to STR, natural armor, CON, and natural attacks, you could shift at will, but you couldn't use any equipment or cast spells while shifted. Each form was themed, but not tied to a specific creature, so you can stylize it however you like. Big Spider > Flying Spider > Giant Spider > Giant Plant Spider > Huge magma spider!

It gave a very different alternative and played completely different from a wild shape druid, and was a lot of fun. The consensus back then was that it was significantly weaker late game than conventional wild shape, but I honestly didn't mind that. A version tweaked for 5e math might be just what you're looking for.

Hmm. that sounds pretty cool as a starting point. I like the different feel of this and the potential to create some strongly themed characters.

[Easy_Lee]

One simple thing you could do: treat druid wild shapes with the ranger beast master companion rules. That includes HP change, adding proficiency to stuff, etc. It would be too much if moon druids kept full CR progression, so it would be best to limit them to perhaps CR1 in that case. But it might accomplish what you're looking for without much homebrew.

Edit: but with none of the limiting what actions you can take, of course.

[Person_Man]

My 2cp:

Wildshape should not change your hit points. This removes the onion druid problem.
CR scaling should be relatively very low at low level, but higher at high levels. This removes the problem of having Multiattack at 2nd level.
DMs can homebrew additional Beasts and Elementals, and introduce them into their campaign. Tell the Druid that if they want to specialize in a particular form, they can go on a vision side quest to find one and "learn its ways." This allows the Druid to have better and more specialized combat forms.
Multiclassing is generally (though not always) a poor way to customize your character in 5E if you're playing in a long running campaign that goes to mid-high levels. You do get many other perfectly valid and interchangeable customization choices - Background, Race, Subclass, Feats, spells, etc. I don't think the multiclass rules can be salvaged with a simple homebrew fix. You'd basically have to rewrite all of the classes, preferably with Legend style Tracks or Tome of Battle style maneuver progression.
Remember, Crunch does not equal Fluff. You can play a strait Druid that is also an assassin or barbarian. You do not have to take levels of any particular class to fulfill its archetypical roles.

[ThermalSlapShot]

I think a 4e type Druid would work very well in 5e. Which is very similar to 3.5 PHB 2 Druid.

Have a generic base form, say from the choice of three, and then have certain beast spells and class features that let you adjust your PC to fit that form.

Lurker Beast (spider, fish, small bird)
Power Beast (bear, wolf, panther)
Elemental (classic elements)

Perhaps have all spells have a beast version?

[MrStabby]

Hmm. Some very good ideas/points here.

I think the CR 1 thing could be good as a starting point so the base shape remains the same. I think that with normal hitpoint progression for the animal form this could be balanced reasonably well.

Regarding Person_Man's comments: you have a bad habit of being right in ways I do not like.

Some is easy enough. I don't like the onion druid - i would be happy to have more effective animal forms and have death of the animal form leave a bleeding out druid rather than a simple reversion. Damage carries over between forms.

CR scaling. In my mind I has not really expected the base CR to scale. More that you get a low level beast form and improve it.

Homebrew additional beasts and elementals: This kind of fixes things but to get every option and upgrade in advance so that players can make informed choice about their progression and theme is very tough.

Your comments on multiclassing. These are the bits that hurt me, because they are true. I love to multiclass - to me it adds a huge amount of sophistication and differentiation to characters. If you build a druid there are basically land and moon druids. Two choices and if you were to play a moon druid in two different campaigns it would be very difficult to get them to feel mechanically different. To me multiclassing is a way to represent subtlety of character or specialisation in the game and to have it actually make a difference in what you can do. Just my whinge that I don't find 5th ed quite perfect.

Crunch =/= fluff. I partially agree with this but also it falls down sometimes. Say I want to play a spider assassin - I can after a fashion say my druid is an assassin. But my background and fluff that says I have studied for years to observe an enemies weak spots and to strike when unexpected to gain an advantage in combat would not give me sneak attacks as a pure druid - and in a party that did have someone with sneak attack ability from a very similar fluff background would have it. Some other things can be homebrewed - if I want a better spider form at higher levels I could probably have one through homebrew (because re-fluffing a Polar Bear wouldn't give it a web ability and poison attacks).

I think this may take more thought and consideration than I originally contemplated.

[ImperiousLeader]

While I wouldn't mind the shapeshift Druid from PH2, I'm generally happy with the 5e Druid's wildshape. The only thing is that the Moon Druid needs a slightly slower access to higher CR monsters.

[Steampunkette]

Yeah. Shapeshifting as Fluff rather than Crunch can be pretty awesome.

I've played a Barbarian, here or there, who was secretly a werewolf. And I treated her barbarian rage as werewolf mode. Her weapon attacks became claws for IC purposes, the increased damage and damage resistance fit well, too.