Thorp defenses

[dantiesilva]

My players may be getting ready to defend a thorp from orc invaders. They have two days to get the village ready that has at the moment only a really weak stone wall like one used back in the day to seperate property, and roofs that could be stood on to shoot arrows from. What could they logically due in 2 days to help defend the town which has 50 people in it? They can have the villagers help them making the defenses.

[Rebel7284]

level? classes?

[Karl Aegis]

Pack up all your food and leave. The orcs will starve. Orcs don't get supplies from their homeland.

[dantiesilva]

5 of the players are level 1
Human duskblade
Halfling beguiler
Dwarf Cleric
Dwarf Ranger
Human Cleric

Then their is the NPC PC played by a friend at the moment which is a level 2 wizard with a pet horned felldrake.

The town is a small trading post and as such abandoning it to the orcs would only equip them for more battle as they wouldn't be able to carry everything when they left. I was thinking about digging a 5ftx5ft trench around the town, but was not sure if they would have the time to do that. Also building spikes so that any orcs charging would impale themselves.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Pack up all your food and leave. The orcs will starve. Orcs don't get supplies from their homeland.
This is probably a good choice, if the people are relatively mobile. If there are ripe (edible) crops out in the fields, or orchards, that'll be problematic.

If you need to defend the thorp anyway, try putting whole trees around or between the houses, make a rough wall that way. Fresh trees won't burn too easily, and they're a reasonably good shape for barricading. If the houses have strong walls, the houses towards the outside of the thorp can make up part of the wall.

At level 1, spells won't be much help in building defences. Obscuring mist may be able to disrupt an orc attack, as it interrupts line of sight, and you can't charge without LoS.

[Extra Anchovies]

ETA: Party's only first level? Yeah, you're screwed. Tell the villagers that there's no chance, you're leaving, and anyone who wants to follow can do so. Give them half a day to pack up and then get the hell out of there.

Have you seen the Seven Samurai? Basically everything they do in that film can be done in this situation, because the premises are similar (rural Japanese village and seven samurai vs forty bandits; rural fantasy village and the PCs vs a bunch of orcs).
Build fortifications (walls, moats) to block off all but one entrances to the village; this is very easy to do once you have access to Move Earth, Stone Shape, and/or Wall of Salt/Stone/Iron/Eyes (the others aren't useful since they're non-instantaneous).
Carry out a pre-emptive attack on the orcs to disrupt them and weaken their morale (try to destroy/steal weapons, too).
Make a bunch of cheap longspears for the peasants (might be hard if you don't have a lot of bamboo lying around) and train them how to stay in formation.
When the orcs attack, let a small group (1-5) into the town through the one available entrance, then trap them inside away from the rest of the attackers. Kill the group and repeat for a while.
After you've whittled them down enough, let the rest into the city for a final showdown.
If you do things properly, the fight should go somewhat like (major Seven Samurai spoilers) this (http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/203403/Seven-Samurai-The-Movie-Clip-Rain-Fight.html), with the bandits trapped and harassed while being cut down one by one.

[Mr Adventurer]

How many orcs, and what is the makeup of their force? (And how much will the PCs reasonably know?) The Beguiler could solve it solo with no prep...

[dantiesilva]

All barbarians

[Segev]

It's a trading post? Send the Beguiler and the Ranger out with a huge wagonload of the strongest booze the thorp has. Either trade it, gift it, or arrange to be robbed of it. The Beguiler's job is to use what influence he can to convince the orcs to indulge HEAVILY ASAP. If the Beguiler has it, use hypnotism to convince some of the orcs that the others are plotting to keep them from having their fair share of loot.

Depending on the success of that, the Ranger and the Duskblade and the Cleric begin to harrass, murder, trap, and harry the drunken and hung-over orcs, slowing them down.

Get the townsfolk to dig a lot of little pot-holes, half-shin deep, and put sharpened sticks upright in them. If they're particularly skilled at this, have them line the holes with thorny vines with the hook-points of the thorns directed downwards. Foot goes in fairly easily, but pulling it out drives the thorns deeper into the calf.

Put these holes as far, wide, and clustered as possible in the probable path of the orcs.

The Beguiler will shape a silent image of thick grass over them when the attack commences. If the barbarians seem superstitious or to be looking for remoralization, include illusions of as many orcs as you want impaled on stakes and erected as warnings. Put illusory felldrakes curled around the bases of the stakes; have the NPC wizard's pet be one of them.

Soak as much of this killing field in flammable liquids as you can. Toss dried brush in, as well. Light it on fire if the orcs charge in.

Another silent image of the town buildings being lit aflame should cause further delay; hide archers in the illusory flames and fire at them.

Be prepared to burn the town, if needs be; once the orcs stop believing in the illusory fires, introduce some real ones to get them charging in heedlessly and to make them warier of the fake ones.

[Ruethgar]

50 villagers can dig a 250ft long 5ft deep trench in one day from loose dirt or two days from packed dirt. Oil should be a fairly common resource for lamps, cooking, etc. and can be used as grenade-like weapons on the cheap or to prepare a spot for a trap. Thankfully all the villagers are proficient. If they don't mind dipping into the trade goods there could be any number of alchemical goods that could help as well.

[dantiesilva]

Burning the place down and defending it sound like exact opposites to me.

However the ditch thing does help, as well as cutting down trees, make spikes, a pit, and soak the tree in oil leaving only one opening for them to get in. Thank you.

[Karl Aegis]

How old are the orcs? If the orcs are lacking their veteran troops you may stand a chance.

[Segev]

Hugely random tangent, but a thought just occurred to me as to why adventuers might - in a given setting - never encounter orc children. Or goblin children.

"Goblins" ARE orc children. And still viciouly inventive.

(Brought about because of the reference to the orcs' age. Carry on with your regularly scheduled thread.)

[Blackhawk748]

I second the postholes. They are cheap and easy to dig. Go a foot down, then simply stick some sharpened Pitons in pointing towards the bottom of the hole. Have fun getting your foot out.

Also the Beguiler should be giddy, this is his moment to shine!

[Talakeal]

Hugely random tangent, but a thought just occurred to me as to why adventuers might - in a given setting - never encounter orc children. Or goblin children.

"Goblins" ARE orc children. And still viciouly inventive.

(Brought about because of the reference to the orcs' age. Carry on with your regularly scheduled thread.)

In the Warhammer setting this is the common belief amongst human scholars.

They believe that all the greenskins are the same species; Snotlings (the kobold equivalent) are infants, goblins children, orcs young adults, black orcs (the uruk-hai / orog equivalent) mature adults, and trolls the elders of the species.

[atemu1234]

Pack up all your food and leave. The orcs will starve. Orcs don't get supplies from their homeland.

This is a strong tactical decision.

Have any of you read The Art of War?

[Karl Aegis]

This is a strong tactical decision.

Have any of you read The Art of War?

Yes, I keep a copy in my jacket pocket when I go to work.

[atemu1234]

Yes, I keep a copy in my jacket pocket when I go to work.

I hope that isn't sarcasm... I've only read it twice.

[Necroticplague]

This is a strong tactical decision.

Have any of you read The Art of War?

Yep. Basic summary of most of it: "your enemy can win a fair fight sometimes. Make sure none of your fights are fair."

With that in mind, can anyone in the party inflict a single negative level? Do you have access to things for simple trapmaking? Because if the answer to both is 'yes' i have an idea.

First off: Hunt for some feeble 1-HD creatures. Doesn't matter what, just that they have 1 HD. Housecats, rats, rabbits, anything. Capture them alive.
step 2: cage said animals. The cages should be able to be lifted by a simple pull in one direction, this will be important later.
step 3: Kill said animals with negative levels. This will cause them to rise as wights when it comes dark, so for safety sake, you should probably do this at sunrise to give you the most time to perform the next step.
step 4: seed the path to the city with these cages with soon-to-be-wights inside. Set up a simple tripwire so that pulling on the wire opens the cage.

When the orcs come marching, they should trigger at least one of the traps. This will release a wight, with two attacks, where if either one hits, it'll kill the orc. Who will rise again against his companions as a wight themselves, to repeat the process (or add to it, if the original wight hasn't been killed in the 1d4 rounds). This chain reaction should wipe most of them out, and leave any survivors severely demoralized.

[atemu1234]

What is with these forums and wightpocalypses as of late?

[Extra Anchovies]

What is with these forums and wightpocalypses as of late?

Well, we used to be into shadowpocalypses, but then we got too many CE soulborns running around :smalltongue:

[atemu1234]

Well, we used to be into shadowpocalypses, but then we got too many CE Tibbit soulborns running around :smalltongue:

Fixed that for you.

[mabriss lethe]

Grell Crystal from Lords of Madness: 10 GP, 1 lb bag of powder + 5 gallons of water+ 1 hour gets you a 1 inch thick 5X5 sheet of crystal with hardness 7 and 20 hp/inch that can be pruned and shaped as it expands. Perfect for cheap and near instant fortifications.

[Inevitability]

Aboleth Mucus. Killing people in painful chemical ways is an established way of warfare. Get the Beguiler as close as possible, then have him start flinging the stuff around.

Alternatively, have one of you challenge the orc chief for command of his army. The DM may let it fly. Have the clerics, duskblade and beguiler layer each available buff on your chosen warrior, give him the best equipment the village has, and pray he'll at least inconvenience the army.

You might be able to distract the orcs by having the beguiler cast Disguise Self, then having him give conflicting orders to the army.

Finally, when in doubt, Pazuzu Pazuzu Pazuzu.

[Karl Aegis]

Alternatively, have one of you challenge the orc chief for command of his army.

This is never a good idea.

[Blackhawk748]

This is never a good idea.

You are correct, when talking about orcs. This should work with Hobgoblins or other people of a Lawful alignment

[atemu1234]

This is never a good idea.

Is kill them all and raise their children as your private army a feasible long-term plan?

[Karl Aegis]

Is kill them all and raise their children as your private army a feasible long-term plan?

99% of the time you are fighting the children. These are the guys who the orc chief thought would be a good idea to send off on a suicide mission rather than spend their resources feeding them and letting them have access to mates. What the young orcs think is "glory" is "exile" to the older orcs that are actually strong enough to defend their homeland from everything. Nobody wants these guys back because nobody wants to feed these runts.

[Telonius]

So what are the victory conditions here? Do you need to hold the territory for a particular reason, keep the villagers alive, kill all the orcs, or just inflict as many casualties on the orcs as possible?

If keeping the villagers alive is the primary goal, that leaves your options a lot more open. You could do anything from fleeing to hiding to welcoming your new Orcish overlords as liberators.

[atemu1234]

So what are the victory conditions here? Do you need to hold the territory for a particular reason, keep the villagers alive, kill all the orcs, or just inflict as many casualties on the orcs as possible?

If keeping the villagers alive is the primary goal, that leaves your options a lot more open. You could do anything from fleeing to hiding to welcoming your new Orcish overlords as liberators.

Are you thinking surrender is an option? I recommend divinations as to figure out their motives, if so...

[Mystral]

5 of the players are level 1
Human duskblade
Halfling beguiler
Dwarf Cleric
Dwarf Ranger
Human Cleric

Then their is the NPC PC played by a friend at the moment which is a level 2 wizard with a pet horned felldrake.

The town is a small trading post and as such abandoning it to the orcs would only equip them for more battle as they wouldn't be able to carry everything when they left. I was thinking about digging a 5ftx5ft trench around the town, but was not sure if they would have the time to do that. Also building spikes so that any orcs charging would impale themselves.

The most important part here is to arm the Population. Have the Duskblade and the clerics, if they are that kind of cleric, organise a militia. Weaker members get slings, stronger members get Quarterstaffs, clubs or whatever they are familiar with. Have them defend a small part of the thorp and wall it off with shrubbery and trees. Dig some murder holes, too. Your beguiler, if he is sneaky, should go on scouting duty and conjure a few silent images to distract the orks. Perhaps he can scare a few off, or divert them. When the orks come, lay in wait and let them come deep into the thorpe before springing an attack.

Dig a few traps and murderholes (pits with sharpened sticks at the bottom, smeared with feces to infect the wounds). If the village has lifestock, try to bog the orks down with it or provoke a stampede.

Remember, these are mostly level 1 ork warriors, which have about 6 HP, so two good hits from a villager will fell them.

[Mystral]

Are you thinking surrender is an option? I recommend divinations as to figure out their motives, if so...

Not many good divs at level 1 for clerics.

[Bad Wolf]

One bat Swarm could probably wipe out half the army.

[dantiesilva]

Here is a map so far of what the players plan on doing. The wooden wall is really a 5ft. deep trench infront of the unstable wall with spikes to help repel chargers. And the party has decided to stay inside the town and build up its defenses. Also these are not level 1 orc warriors. They are level 1 orc barbarians with 15hp before raging.

[atemu1234]

Not many good divs at level 1 for clerics.

Evacuate, then, to strategic high ground.

[Mystral]

Here is a map so far of what the players plan on doing. The wooden wall is really a 5ft. deep trench infront of the unstable wall with spikes to help repel chargers. And the party has decided to stay inside the town and build up its defenses. Also these are not level 1 orc warriors. They are level 1 orc barbarians with 15hp before raging.

You are building them as PCs?

Yeah, your party is doomed. Have fun with that TPK.

[atemu1234]

You are building them as PCs?

Yeah, you're party is doomed. Have fun with that TPK.

Yeah, make a break for it on this one.

[Mystral]

Perhaps make 1 or 2 of them barbarians and the rest warriors. Have the barbarians as leaders.

But all of them? That's crazy. And that is not how D&D is supposed to be played, characters with pc classes are the exception, not the rule.

[Threadnaught]

Put a whole bunch of oil and other flammables in a big pile in the middle of the Thorp.
Put some shinies and food on the pile.
Make sure there's a clear path for a fuse or flaming arrow or whatever.

Dig a moat around the settlement.
Fill with spikes and human/whateverrace waste. Should give Filth Fever.
Have a bridge across the moat that requires a Balance check to cross.
Select a handful of the best marksmen in the settlement.
Evacuate everyone else.

Kill a handful of Orcs with the obvious trap they probably wouldn't be expecting, because sometimes it's too obvious to actually be a trap.
While they're crying about getting nothing of any serious value, shower them with death, taking out another handful before retreating.
Cross the bridge if there are too many Orcs to handle, more than 2 at once.
Run into the wilderness and disappear.

If done right, you'd be able to kill about 5 Orcs easily, with no casualties on your end. Though chances are you'll either kill more Orcs, or someone on your side'd give in to bloodlust creating at least one casualty.
Worst case scenario? You piss off the Orcs by killing just one of them, then it's a TPK and they go after the civilians.


You could always try Diplomacy, get the party face able to speak Orcish then before setting off the trap, explain to the Orcs that, the big ol' pile o'death is the only thing of any value they'll find, they can take the pile and leave, or fight and lose everything they have and nothing they're able to kill will make up for everything they lose. Or Intimidate, I dunno, they're so similar... Except Diplomacy is completely borked.

[HolyCouncilMagi]

Are you thinking surrender is an option? I recommend divinations as to figure out their motives, if so...

At level 1, "divinations" means "have the sneaky guy go into their camp and listen to them talk while hoping he doesn't get caught."

[Afgncaap5]

At level 1, "divinations" means "have the sneaky guy go into their camp and listen to them talk while hoping he doesn't get caught."

Maybe poison/steal their rations for the next day on the way back out...

[atemu1234]

Maybe poison/steal their rations for the next day on the way back out...

What kind of poison can you get at level 1?

[ExLibrisMortis]

What kind of poison can you get at level 1?
Feces. There are no stats for it, but I imagine it spoils food nonetheless.

I don't think the plans relying on burning mass quantities of oil are going to work, unless this village is in the oil business. A pint of oil covers a 5' square, burns for 2 rounds, and deals 1d3 damage per round. That means an orc barbarian can charge right through, unless you have an 80' wide ring of fire around the village. Of course, level 1 NPC WBL is 900 gp, good for 9000 pints of oil.

[Afgncaap5]

What kind of poison can you get at level 1?

Generally you can't unless a player made some really weird gp spending decisions during character creation. However, if a player happens to have 90 gp leftover (unlikely) and the Thorp has a 90 gp spending limit instead of a 40 gp spending limit (REALLY unlikely, but if the population of the trade town is pooling resources arguably possible), some Oil of Taggit in the breakfast of the barbarian leader might not be a bad way to gain an extra 1-3 hours of prep time (and might even help with demoralizing the attackers if their leader suddenly falls unconscious right before combat.)

Not a reasonable option, to be sure, but worth mentioning in case the situation lends itself to it.

[Talakeal]

On the orc barbarians:

I usually run my campaigns with all humanoids having a PC class. The only people who actually use humanoid HD are unskilled laborers; warriors become fighters, aristocrats use the noble class from DL, experts use the artificer class from Eberron, and adepts just take caster classes. Rather than separating the world into PC classes / NPC classes I just have unimportant people be lower level, and I distinguish low level Player Characters from the rabble by letting them have higher than average ability scores.

It does take some getting used to though. One of the first campaigns I ran using this system had a band of orc barbarians whom the players underestimated, thinking they were "just orcs". This led to a relatively swift and brutal TPK.

[dantiesilva]

12 orcs with 17hp while raging running into arrow fire from 6 PCS plus 5 NPCs. Then getting hit by magic when they get close enough, followed by a ranger who specalizes in fighting orcs will be a TPK? Now this I will have to see.

[Karl Aegis]

12 orcs with 17hp while raging running into arrow fire from 6 PCS plus 5 NPCs. Then getting hit by magic when they get close enough, followed by a ranger who specalizes in fighting orcs will be a TPK? Now this I will have to see.

12 orcs are not invaders. They are raiders are best, some guys that got lost in the woods at worst.

[Extra Anchovies]

12 orcs with 17hp while raging running into arrow fire from 6 PCS plus 5 NPCs. Then getting hit by magic when they get close enough, followed by a ranger who specalizes in fighting orcs will be a TPK? Now this I will have to see.

Only 12? I was thinking closer to forty. Yeah, you have a chance. Twelve is hardly an invasion.

[Jon_Dahl]

Here's what I would do:
There should be some obvious route the orcs are going to take. Given the description of the situation, there should be at least some idea of a distance and direction where they are coming from.

I would have the villagers collect all hard liquor they can get and produce more, quickly. Some potent moonshine. I would ask the villagers for some recently dead young women or some condemned woman (an adulterer etc.). I would gather the well-preserved corpses and tie up the woman, unless the villagers would protest too much. In case of an outrage, I would try to explain my plan and attempt to get on with it.

I would find a good surveillance point along the orcs' route and place the corpses (covered in salted clothing), and the condemned woman, along with the moonshine, on the path. I would also place some pole with a white flag or something to draw attention, in the event the orcs are taking another route close by.

As the orcs find the moonshine and the living/dead women, they should have lots of fun. One capable villager should always man the surveillance point. As the orcs stop to enjoy their life, being chaotic creatures with a taste for life’s immediate pleasures, the villager should relate this to my comrades, the villagers and me. A quick decision would be made according the apparent danger-level of the orcs. Too many? Run. Not that many? A surprise attack on orcs at the point they should have drunk all the booze and they should be drunk. I would advise the villagers as follows: Everyone attacks in pairs, and the younger villager always performs aid another. Lots of screaming of “GRUUMSH!” to make the group seem bigger than it is and to confound the enemy. I would attack with the prettiest virgin of the village. If the attack were to fail, I would threaten to kill the girl unless I was given an oath in the name of Gruumsh to be spared. I would also tell them that this was my idea and I could serve the orcs and guide them to many villages.

[Threadnaught]

12 orcs with 17hp while raging running into arrow fire from 6 PCS plus 5 NPCs. Then getting hit by magic when they get close enough, followed by a ranger who specalizes in fighting orcs will be a TPK? Now this I will have to see.

There's only 12?

I thought there would be between 30 and 100. Well, different strategy.


Instead of aiming to take out a dozen and fleeing... Just aim to take out a dozen.

[atemu1234]

There's only 12?

I thought there would be between 30 and 100. Well, different strategy.


Instead of aiming to take out a dozen and fleeing... Just aim to take out a dozen.

Ranged combat would work here.

[Threadnaught]

Ranged combat would work here.

Indeed young Deca-Rudisplorkian, hence the step where the best marksmen are hand picked to be part of the fighting force.

[Invader]

Deconstruct your 5 ft stone wall around the village into a 10ft stone wall around a couple sturdy buildings with one entrance. Ranged townsfolk to watch for any orcs trying to scale the wall from the roofs of the buildings and the PCs to bottle neck them at the entrance. Easily doable in two days and should be effective enough.

[Milodiah]

Ok, we're defending from a 12 man invasion?

That's not bad at all. Just some rudimentary battlefield control and you're good. Ensure that you have some fighting positions where you cannot be outnumbered, while ensuring your ranged abilities can be used to the maximum.


But really, 12 guys? This is why there are NPC classes, dude. 12 barbarians is a raiding force, 35 warriors is a mildly more realistic invading force that's only slightly more dangerous.

Also, why are level one characters taking charge? By game logic, there are level twos and threes around somewhere, no doubt.

[atemu1234]

Indeed young Deca-Rudisplorkian, hence the step where the best marksmen are hand picked to be part of the fighting force.

Am I part of the guild now?

[dextercorvia]

I'm playing the Beguiler. My plan so far was to give as many people as possible bows and other ranged weapons, and putting them on the roofs of houses. There is a good sized clearing around the town, so we should see them coming in. I was going to use a combination of Sleep and Silent Image to reduce the numbers that make it to the wall. We have a couple frontliners who should be able to pick off the rest.

[Threadnaught]

Am I part of the guild now?

Yep, but that's not your full title.
Finally got an ability for your Race besides being weak to Chaos. Whoop.

Also realized that these Orcs aren't as serious a threat as we originally predicted.

[jiriku]

My players may be getting ready to defend a thorp from orc invaders. They have two days to get the village ready that has at the moment only a really weak stone wall like one used back in the day to seperate property, and roofs that could be stood on to shoot arrows from. What could they logically due in 2 days to help defend the town which has 50 people in it? They can have the villagers help them making the defenses.

That's always a fun scenario to game. I'm a little puzzled, though. You're the DM. You don't have a dog in this fight. Why are you at all concerned about what the PCs will do to defend the town? It's their job to come up with that, not yours. Unless you have an NPC captain of the town watch who's in charge and is expected to come up with a plan of battle, the PCs, by virtue of being the only Big Damn Heroes who have a chance of stopping the orcs, are going to be calling the shots. All you have to do as the DM is build the stat blocks, roll dice, and eat pizza.

[atemu1234]

Yep, but that's not your full title.
Finally got an ability for your Race besides being weak to Chaos. Whoop.

Also realized that these Orcs aren't as serious a threat as we originally predicted.

You still haven't finished it? I wish my life was that busy. Actually, no, wait, I don't. I want my life to un-busy...

[Threadnaught]

I'm a little puzzled, though. You're the DM. You don't have a dog in this fight. Why are you at all concerned about what the PCs will do to defend the town? It's their job to come up with that, not yours.

Actually this is a good thing for a DM to do. Come up with ways players can overcome challenges, so the DM knows how to react and isn't surprised. If the players surprise the DM, they risk the DM having nothing for them to do, which ruins an otherwise interesting scenario.

As for the dog fighting metaphor/analogy, the DM owns both dogs and pays for their upkeep.

[atemu1234]

Actually this is a good thing for a DM to do. Come up with ways players can overcome challenges, so the DM knows how to react and isn't surprised. If the players surprise the DM, they risk the DM having nothing for them to do, which ruins an otherwise interesting scenario.

As for the dog fighting metaphor/analogy, the DM owns both dogs and pays for their upkeep.

Yeah, the DM should always have at least one or two ways out in mind, even though it's common wisdom the players will surprise you anyways. Basically, be prepared. For anything. Including an emergency Here-Comes-Gandalf-With-The-Eagles escape route, unless you want them to be angry with you for TPKing them.

[Karl Aegis]

It's 12 orcs. Throw them a welcome party and invite them to stay as residents of your little town. Maybe you'll turn into a hamlet one day if you didn't kill everyone who journeyed from far away. It's not like coexistence is an Evil act (is it?).

[Talakeal]

It's 12 orcs. Throw them a welcome party and invite them to stay as residents of your little town. Maybe you'll turn into a hamlet one day if you didn't kill everyone who journeyed from far away. It's not like coexistence is an Evil act (is it?).

No, not unless they have the [evil] tag, but Failure to punish those who arm or threaten innocents is a breach of the paladins code.

[dantiesilva]

Because I originally asked what a town could do to defend it. As the players had the choice of trying to track the Raiders down. And if they did so, I as the DM would have played out both sides of the battle instead of mostly one side. I wanted to know how much 50 commoners could dig if they needed to because either they would be told to by the mayor, or it could be one of the ideas that came up. I wanted to know how a bunch of low level people could hold off an invading force if the heroes were not there. The world is a living breathing entity, and if you forget that it eats you. A town is not in stasis from the moment you leave it until you return. It is thriving or dying, being sacked by raiders or saved by mighty heroes. Maybe even the town makes a few of their own heroes. I like to remind players that this is not fable where you are the most powerful person on a town, that if you commit a crime the guards can and in most cases will take you down.

One of my players without knowing did a small little magic trick of pulling a coin out of a girls ear. Later he was told that girl showed some talent in the arcane, and because he worshipped the stern lady his small act of kindness may have shaped that little girls future into becoming a servant of the stern lady. They may not know about it for years in game, but it's a possibility that wasn't there before. That's why I ask for help on certain situations like this one, as it will be the smallest things that make the biggest ripples in the world.

And dex that's cold reading in here, now I need to double the raiding party. :smallwink:

[Ruethgar]

If you are looking for what 50 commoners can do, rather than what they should typically do, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?232822-The-Commoner-Handbook) is a decent resource. Also Magically Adept, Magical Training, Magical Affinity, Minor Divine Spellcasting and similar feats are wonderful for optimizing commoners.

[dextercorvia]

And dex that's cold reading in here, now I need to double the raiding party. :smallwink:

Some thoughts I had while reading this thread:

1. Hey, this seems topical.

2. Check for a Players Keep Out sign. OK you're good.

3. Hey, they are mainly recommending running away or the stuff I was thinking about. Cool.

4. Woohoo! Double XP!