PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Spontaneous casting + Sanctum Spell = ?



Uncle Pine
2015-06-20, 08:07 AM
Because apparently it wasn't simple enough:

Q86

Spontaneous Casting
A druid can channel stored spell energy into summoning spells that she hasn’t prepared ahead of time. She can "lose" a prepared spell in order to cast any summon nature’s ally spell of the same level or lower.
Can a Druid "lose" a prepared Sanctum SNA III in order to cast a SNA IV spell while inside her sanctum? To the best of my knowledge yes because Sanctum Spell raises the spell's effective level, but I'd like to be sure before using it at a table.
Also, what about a Wizard with Nexus Method? Can she "lose" a prepared non-conjuration Sanctum spell of Nth level to cast a Summon Monster spell of (N+1)th level or lower while inside her sanctum?

I say yes, but I may be biased by the fact that I'd like to build a centaur Conjurer 1/Druid 5 to throw at my players tomorrow evening. :smallbiggrin:

Spontaneous Casting
A druid can channel stored spell energy into summoning spells that she hasn’t prepared ahead of time. She can "lose" a prepared spell in order to cast any summon nature’s ally spell of the same level or lower.
Sanctum Spell
Type: Metamagic
Source: Complete Arcane

Your spells are especially potent on home ground.
Prerequisite: Any metamagic feat.
Benefit: A sanctum spell has an effective spell level higher than its normal level if cast in your sanctum (see below), but if not cast in the sanctum, the spell has an effective spell level 1 lower than normal. All effects dependent on spell level (including save DCs) are calculated according to the adjusted level.
A sanctum spell uses a spell slot of the spell's normal level.
Special: Your sanctum is a particular site, building, or structure previously designated by you, and no larger than 20 feet/level in diameter. The designated area must be a site where you have spent a cumulative period of at least three months. Though a sanctum can be designated within a larger structure, its special advantages do not apply beyond the maximum area.
Once designated, it takes seven days for a site to become a sanctum, and if you designate a new area to be your sanctum, the benefits of the old one immediately fade.
Nexus Method
Type: General
Source: Dragon #319

You learned magic at the Sorcerers Nexus of Rel Astra. a shadowy academy led by the greatest summoners and binders of Oerth.
Prerequisite: Ability to prepare and cast arcane spells.
Region: Solnor Compact (Oerth).
Benefit: You can channel stored spell energy into summon monster spells that you did not prepare ahead of time. You can "lose" any prepared spell that's not a conjuration spell in order to cast a summon monster spell of the same level or lower. For example, a wizard who has prepared fireball (a 3rd-level spell) may lose fireball in order to cast summon monster III (also a 3rd-level spell). Add the following to the list of feats you may select as a bonus wizard feat: Augment Summoning, Fiendsign, Greater Spell Focus, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration.

Crake
2015-06-20, 10:27 AM
I'd allow it, it's no more powerful than the ring of the beast, and is of course limited to your sanctum.

Jack_Simth
2015-06-20, 10:34 AM
Because apparently it wasn't simple enough:

Also, what about a Wizard with Nexus Method? Can she "lose" a prepared non-conjuration Sanctum spell of Nth level to cast a Summon Monster spell of (N+1)th level or lower while inside her sanctum?

I say yes, but I may be biased by the fact that I'd like to build a centaur Conjurer 1/Druid 4 to throw at my players tomorrow evening. :smallbiggrin:

Spontaneous Casting
A druid can channel stored spell energy into summoning spells that she hasn’t prepared ahead of time. She can "lose" a prepared spell in order to cast any summon nature’s ally spell of the same level or lower.
Sanctum Spell
Type: Metamagic
Source: Complete Arcane

Your spells are especially potent on home ground.
Prerequisite: Any metamagic feat.
Benefit: A sanctum spell has an effective spell level higher than its normal level if cast in your sanctum (see below), but if not cast in the sanctum, the spell has an effective spell level 1 lower than normal. All effects dependent on spell level (including save DCs) are calculated according to the adjusted level.
A sanctum spell uses a spell slot of the spell's normal level.
Special: Your sanctum is a particular site, building, or structure previously designated by you, and no larger than 20 feet/level in diameter. The designated area must be a site where you have spent a cumulative period of at least three months. Though a sanctum can be designated within a larger structure, its special advantages do not apply beyond the maximum area.
Once designated, it takes seven days for a site to become a sanctum, and if you designate a new area to be your sanctum, the benefits of the old one immediately fade.
Nexus Method
Type: General
Source: Dragon #319

You learned magic at the Sorcerers Nexus of Rel Astra. a shadowy academy led by the greatest summoners and binders of Oerth.
Prerequisite: Ability to prepare and cast arcane spells.
Region: Solnor Compact (Oerth).
Benefit: You can channel stored spell energy into summon monster spells that you did not prepare ahead of time. You can "lose" any prepared spell that's not a conjuration spell in order to cast a summon monster spell of the same level or lower. For example, a wizard who has prepared fireball (a 3rd-level spell) may lose fireball in order to cast summon monster III (also a 3rd-level spell). Add the following to the list of feats you may select as a bonus wizard feat: Augment Summoning, Fiendsign, Greater Spell Focus, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration.

...

How would this be that much different from a Druid-5 that finagled Summon Monster III on to the Druid list? Aren't most of the critters on the Summon Nature's Ally III list stronger options than those on the Summon Monster III list anyway?

Andezzar
2015-06-20, 10:47 AM
It does not work, because you are not casting the sanctum spell in the sanctum when you lose it and cast SNA instead. Conversely if you lose a sanctum spell outside the sanctum you can still cast an SNA spell appropriate to the normal level of the lost spell.

The nexus method does not work either for the same reason.

Uncle Pine
2015-06-20, 11:48 AM
...

How would this be that much different from a Druid-5 that finagled Summon Monster III on to the Druid list? Aren't most of the critters on the Summon Nature's Ally III list stronger options than those on the Summon Monster III list anyway?
Because I wrote Druid 4 instead of Druid 5. The NPC is Conjurer 1/Druid 5. I corrected the OP.


It does not work, because you are not casting the sanctum spell in the sanctum when you lose it and cast SNA instead. Conversely if you lose a sanctum spell outside the sanctum you can still cast an SNA spell appropriate to the normal level of the lost spell.

The nexus method does not work either for the same reason.
This does make sense. Thanks for the clarification.

Ruethgar
2015-06-20, 12:09 PM
Conversely if you lose a sanctum spell outside the sanctum you can still cast an SNA spell appropriate to the normal level of the lost spell.

This is false, a Sanctum Spell is considered one level lower than the normal spell level for all purposes except being cast within the Sanctum. So you could cast a SNA appropriate to the normal level of the lost spell minus one.

Andezzar
2015-06-20, 12:17 PM
You are right. Somehow I thought that is is -1 if cast elsewhere, but the rule in fact says it is -1 if not cast in the sanctum, which includes not being cast at all.

Ruethgar
2015-06-20, 04:39 PM
Now to build a spell trap of a sanctum cantrip, infinite gold and XP gain! Not that any sane DM would actually allow that.

atemu1234
2015-06-20, 06:02 PM
Now to build a spell trap of a sanctum cantrip, infinite gold and XP gain! Not that any sane DM would actually allow that.

Are any DMs sane after a few games?

Jack_Simth
2015-06-20, 06:06 PM
Are any DMs sane after a few games?
...

You pretty much have to have at least a little insanity to start DMing.

atemu1234
2015-06-20, 06:12 PM
...

You pretty much have to have at least a little insanity to start DMing.

I left my sanity behind a long time ago, haven't looked back.

Grooke
2015-06-20, 06:23 PM
Wow, this thread made me realize I was wrong about something that I automatically assumed for all spontaneous casting features. You don't actually get the slot back.

If you prepared Charm Animal in a 9th lvl slot for some reason, spontaneous casting would only allow you to cast SNA I

Gotta go check the other similar features.