How do you play Exalted?

[Jeivar]

I bought the second edition book several years ago, but was never able to get a game started. I hear there's a new edition coming out and while I DO find the idea of playing glorious demigods interesting I'm just not sure what to do with the setting.

Regular humans are completely pathetic against Exalts, Death Knights are rare and the wild hunt is meant to be near-certain death. What does that leave the Solars doing most of the time?

Also, the whole thing is billed as 'glorious, legendary heroes return to save the day!'. But the Solars suffer periodic psychotic episodes, and there is that whole White Wolf grey-and-grey morality. The gods are addicted to WoW, I didn't read anything about the Primordials actually deserving to be cast down, and the Solars only deserve to rule by virtue of might and the fact that the whole world is circling several drains.

Am I just approaching this with the wrong mindset? How do people generally play this game?

[AceOfFools]

When playing standard (i.e. Solar) Exalted, you should be in the threshold, starting out dealing with whatever injustices made you Exalt in the first place, be they mortals, gods, fair folk, the dead (of which Deathknights are only the largest, most terrifying agents), or scattered dragonblooded.

Assuming even minimal combat focus in your party, you can crush most of these in a fair fight, which is why things don't fight fair. The Guild doesn't send soldiers to kill you, they embargo the nation that made you king after you crushed the old, opressive oligarchy. Your people start to starve (or go naked, or are unable to provide the offering to the gods to get them rain), and no matter how good you are at punching things, you can't just punch food into existence (as a newbie Solar, pretty sure there's a high essence charm for that somewhere).

The Extra credits video on classical heroes gives a good indication of how this works for newbie Solars (https://youtu.be/3IyPc5nw0Wk). Considering that classical heroes were a major inspiration.

Note also that the Wyld Hunt is not an all powerful force. They are a recurring antagonist that should repatedily challenge, but ultimaly fail to defeat the heroes. Bull of the North, whose intended purpose is to be worfed (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect) by the PCs to show their power, has beaten a couple of legions with nothing but the army he put together. The way in which they can be used as part of the punishment for PCs that don't play the game by keeping under the radar is again, in the adverse effects they have. They are a powerful army that will deplete your military resources, destroy fotresses the PCs have established, and can even bolster their existent enemies. They can't always just send a large army to deal with someone in the threshold, willy, nilly. Most rulers that aren't Realm colonies would object to the large army, and small teams don't do well against a full or partial Solar Circle.

But onto the question asked, how do I play Exalted?

1. Don't play starting-level power. The game delivers a much more entertaining experience when you are higher essence, higher skilled and can actually effect larger change in the setting. Because a high essence solar circle will very much be able to bend Creation to their will.
2. Play to player Motivation. One of the things that's really fun about Exalted is that you have mechanics that require your characters to declare what is most important to them and rewards them for pursuing that goal. If a player wants to eliminate slavery, work out what changes he needs to make in society to make that happen, and make the game (or part of the game) making those changes a reality.
3. Use a dice roller. Counting successes on the large die pools available to an Exalt takes far, far too much time.
4. Play the Dragonblooded. I've always preferred playing DBs. The lower power level means there is a far wider range of enemies attack them where they are strongest and have it be a legitimate challenge.
5. Don't use the core rules. I'm in the process of developing an entire homebrew system to not use the Exalted mechanics because, frankly, they're terrible (see point 3). This can be fixed or at least addressed with House Rules--the most important being heavy use of Custom Charms. The existing charm trees are limited, partially what they can do, but more in variety and differentiation. Anyone who wants to excel at a, say building things gets the same bulleted list of Craft charms in approximately the same order. Characters are EXALTED for Luna's sake, they should be unique and special, not differentiated by "which trees you took" and "how far in the tree you are." (Side note: this is much less of an issue if you play with standard power level, as you have far, far fewer charms).

[Jeivar]

So is the assumption that the Solars will be founding kingdoms and raising armies rather than travel around as adventurers?



5. Don't use the core rules. I'm in the process of developing an entire homebrew system to not use the Exalted mechanics because, frankly, they're terrible (see point 3). This can be fixed or at least addressed with House Rules--the most important being heavy use of Custom Charms. The existing charm trees are limited, partially what they can do, but more in variety and differentiation. Anyone who wants to excel at a, say building things gets the same bulleted list of Craft charms in approximately the same order. Characters are EXALTED for Luna's sake, they should be unique and special, not differentiated by "which trees you took" and "how far in the tree you are." (Side note: this is much less of an issue if you play with standard power level, as you have far, far fewer charms).

I will admit I found the rules in the 2nd edition book rather unappealing. Has there been any information on just how the 3rd will differentiate?

[Karl Aegis]

You make excessive amounts of pop culture references while trying to save the world from total destruction and/or thinking up new and creative ways to stop your landlord from collecting the rent you owe him on your apartment.

[golentan]

You can still run around as adventurers.

My advice? Start fairly small, and then keep escalating. Two important things to understand about Exalts: You can overcome literally any foe with time, effort, and coordination. And you're not the biggest fish in the pond yet. The combination means feel free to throw WHATEVER at the players, and be prepared for them to lose until they figure out how to win

So, you mention deathknights and the wyld hunt. The wyld hunt is probable (NOT certain) death to a fresh exalted celestial. Give it a year or two, and you're a larger threat to them, especially if you've formed a circle (I assume you have, that's your party). Deathknights and terrestrials aren't the only antagonists: wars between solars nearly destroyed the world in the first age. Lunars are often upset about their old "masters" coming back, and sidereals are practically in a quiet civil war about what to do with the return of the solars. Alchemicals might invade trying desperately to seize souls to take home. Demons, Raksha, Ghosts, the gods have grown corrupt and indolent... As you start climbing the power scale, there are Behemoths. Past them, yozis, neverborn, Ishvara... Somewhere out there, there's a primordial who didn't side with the gods, did not die, and did not surrender, that we know NOTHING about. The world is a big place as well, just start making things up. Somewhere out there there's a thing we've had described as a threat to creation that we know only as the scorpion empire, what's up with that? Maybe we should find out more?

And you can play as pretty much all these groups. There are always insurmountable challenges to kick in the face and surmount anyway. Dragonblooded are one of my favorite character types.

Most of Ace of fool's comments are things I would agree with (I like the ruleset, and have hated attempts to homebrew a "better" system, it's not as bad as many of the fans claim even if it's not perfect, I'm not sure where it became popular to hate on it), but the big thing is play the way you and the other players want rather than anything else. Whether you're a god king of old or a wandering do gooder or the sort of villain that the wyld hunt holds up as an example of "See, they do eat babies!" always play the way you want, and make sure the ST is writing the story around your character rather than forcing you to fit your character to their story.

I will say, 3rd edition looks great from what we've seen, smoothing out a lot and making things seem more magical... Sorcery is actually fun and weird and potent, artifacts are powerful, everyone has a power boost in some ways but has been pulled back in others... But all the advice above holds.

[Arbane]

So is the assumption that the Solars will be founding kingdoms and raising armies rather than travel around as adventurers?

Eh, you CAN do that (and I'm pretty sure that was 1st ed's basic assumption), but if you have to fight an army, having another army to do it with is a lot easier...


I will admit I found the rules in the 2nd edition book rather unappealing. Has there been any information on just how the 3rd will differentiate?

Apparently, someone leaked a draft of the Third Edition rules. From commentary on RPGnet, they've completely changed (and hopefully, simplified) the way fighting works, so it's more a matter of "Beat your opponent's defenses down, THEN cut their head off" than "Oh, you didn't use a perfect defense? Make a new character." Some charms, like perfect defenses, now apparently have limits on how often they can be used. (It's D&D 4th all over again! AIIIEEEEEEEEE!!@!one!)

Social conflict works differently now - use your opponent's Intimacies against them, so you need to know what they value to REALLY wrap them around your fingers.

Unfortunately, it looks like they're sticking with the Handfuls O' Dice System, so start buying up d10s now.

[Talakeal]

Past them, yozis, neverborn, Ishvara... Somewhere out there, there's a primordial who didn't side with the gods, did not die, and did not surrender, that we know NOTHING about. .

So I used to be big into Exalted in first edition, and I have never heard of Ishvara or mystery primordials. I am assuming they are either newish concepts in the setting or just something that has slipped my memory. I am curious, but my Google-fu has failed me, any chance you can give me some more info or point me to something that can?

[golentan]

So I used to be big into Exalted in first edition, and I have never heard of Ishvara or mystery primordials. I am assuming they are either newish concepts in the setting or just something that has slipped my memory. I am curious, but my Google-fu has failed me, any chance you can give me some more info or point me to something that can?

Ishvara are the ultimate form of Raksha, at LEAST on the level of the Incarnae, so powerful they suck up other raksha, other beings into their story. We don't have stats for an of them (same as with most things of that level, stats would probably be more guidelines than anything else plus some panoply powers), but Prince Balor (as in the Balorian Crusade, Church of Balor, that Balor) is an example of an Ishvara. The guy who nearly melted creations face off, and whose weapon the Grass Cutting Scythe is supposed to be sufficient to attack an entire cardinal direction at once.

Rogue primordials, have you heard of Ramethus, AKA Chungira? At the end of the primordial war, two primordials did not surrender or die, they fled. Ramethus spent a thousand years performing surgery on his own souls, upgrading himself into a pitiless nigh omnipotent killing machine, and returned during the millennial celebration of the end of the war. Nicknamed Chungira after Mr. Chung by the fan base, for his single minded dedication to combat, the aftershock war against him nearly toppled the solars and required the deaths of tens of thousands of exalts to bring him down, including (apparently) Brigid the mother of sorcery, at the end of which he was cast down as the only neverborn created after the treaties were signed. Of Ramethus's partner, the other primordial who fled, nothing is known.

A popular fan theory is that the primordial came back following the end of the first age, and set himself up in nexus as The Emissary, explaining why, among other things, essence 10 exalts still don't screw around with nexus too openly, why the emissary seems compelled to obey some weird alien code that makes no sense to anyone else, and why after confronting a demon in a fight where the emissary was unmasked the yozis recognized the emissary well enough to blackmail it. But... we don't know. And I prefer it to remain fan theory and "in my creation" rather then ever answering it.

[Talakeal]

Ishvara are the ultimate form of Raksha, at LEAST on the level of the Incarnae, so powerful they suck up other raksha, other beings into their story. We don't have stats for an of them (same as with most things of that level, stats would probably be more guidelines than anything else plus some panoply powers), but Prince Balor (as in the Balorian Crusade, Church of Balor, that Balor) is an example of an Ishvara. The guy who nearly melted creations face off, and whose weapon the Grass Cutting Scythe is supposed to be sufficient to attack an entire cardinal direction at once.

Rogue primordials, have you heard of Ramethus, AKA Chungira? At the end of the primordial war, two primordials did not surrender or die, they fled. Ramethus spent a thousand years performing surgery on his own souls, upgrading himself into a pitiless nigh omnipotent killing machine, and returned during the millennial celebration of the end of the war. Nicknamed Chungira after Mr. Chung by the fan base, for his single minded dedication to combat, the aftershock war against him nearly toppled the solars and required the deaths of tens of thousands of exalts to bring him down, including (apparently) Brigid the mother of sorcery, at the end of which he was cast down as the only neverborn created after the treaties were signed. Of Ramethus's partner, the other primordial who fled, nothing is known.

A popular fan theory is that the primordial came back following the end of the first age, and set himself up in nexus as The Emissary, explaining why, among other things, essence 10 exalts still don't screw around with nexus too openly, why the emissary seems compelled to obey some weird alien code that makes no sense to anyone else, and why after confronting a demon in a fight where the emissary was unmasked the yozis recognized the emissary well enough to blackmail it. But... we don't know. And I prefer it to remain fan theory and "in my creation" rather then ever answering it.

Awesome. Thanks for the info!

[ace rooster]

So is the assumption that the Solars will be founding kingdoms and raising armies rather than travel around as adventurers?



I will admit I found the rules in the 2nd edition book rather unappealing. Has there been any information on just how the 3rd will differentiate?

Partly. Helping one village at a time is a decent place to start, but fairly rapidly you will be able to deal with threats to kingdoms. At that point you will be founding nations and raising armies in passing.

With regards to the dice thing, it is not nearly as bad as you might think once you get on top of it, and who doesn't like throwing all the dice for every attack? Three tricks I would recommend; First, when you are not doing anything group the dice into 5s. It takes a few seconds but saves the next person to roll them the same time. Picking up 3 5s and 2 extra is far faster than counting out 17 dice. Secondly, instead of trying to count your successes after you have rolled just grab them. Make two piles of dice, one of single successes, and one of 10s, and don't worry about keeping them the same way up. When you have removed them all just count the piles. Thirdly, for flurries don't count out dice for every attack. They will all be the same except the flurry penalty, so if you are going to flurry make sure there are no extra dice in the roll area, grab the same dice again, take one out for the flurry penalty, et voila. You might lose track of how many dice you are rolling, but it doesn't matter.

The first comic strip in the core book sums things up nicely. The solars are able to punch any threat into the ground farily easily, but that doesn't always solve the problem. Given how final death is in universe (unless you want to play a ghost for a while, which doesn't work that well), outmatching lethal opponents in combat is important for the story, as otherwise you end up in a game of thrones situation. Most encounters should not be a real threat to the PCs existance, and should challenge them in other ways. Simply terrorising slavers is fun for a while, but is unlikely to achieve your goals long term. When a king agrees to outlaw slavery if you can get rid of a shadowland, with the Eclipse binding the agreement, then we are in business. The local deathknight may object though, even if they are not going to take personal risks to defend it. You then have the option of all out war which may rapidly escalate into war with a deathlord, or diplomacy, backed up by strength. Is stopping slavery in this nation worth concessions to the neverborn? If stopping slavery is your motivation, then it probably is. You then still need to quest to find a way to actually get rid of the shadowland.

Similarly, you are unlikely to be able to punch your way into Yu Shan or Malfeas safely until very late, so if you have business there you are going to need some other way in.

[Jeivar]

I appreciate the information so far. I'm getting a clearer picture.

What about the gods? What I got from the book was that the high ones were pretty much locked away in their basements with bags of cheetos and the exaltations are just running themselves. Which I find . . . weird. Is it just an excuse for leaving the players something to do or are the gods ever feature in some way?

[SaurOps]

Ishvara are the ultimate form of Raksha, at LEAST on the level of the Incarnae, so powerful they suck up other raksha, other beings into their story. We don't have stats for an of them (same as with most things of that level, stats would probably be more guidelines than anything else plus some panoply powers), but Prince Balor (as in the Balorian Crusade, Church of Balor, that Balor) is an example of an Ishvara. The guy who nearly melted creations face off, and whose weapon the Grass Cutting Scythe is supposed to be sufficient to attack an entire cardinal direction at once.

Though another, Laashe, did very well against the Unconquered Sun by getting the Most High to play against his own strengths. Luna then managed to fairly easily pluck Laashe out of existence.



Rogue primordials, have you heard of Ramethus, AKA Chungira? At the end of the primordial war, two primordials did not surrender or die, they fled. Ramethus spent a thousand years performing surgery on his own souls, upgrading himself into a pitiless nigh omnipotent killing machine, and returned during the millennial celebration of the end of the war. Nicknamed Chungira after Mr. Chung by the fan base, for his single minded dedication to combat, the aftershock war against him nearly toppled the solars and required the deaths of tens of thousands of exalts to bring him down, including (apparently) Brigid the mother of sorcery, at the end of which he was cast down as the only neverborn created after the treaties were signed. Of Ramethus's partner, the other primordial who fled, nothing is known.

A popular fan theory is that the primordial came back following the end of the first age, and set himself up in nexus as The Emissary, explaining why, among other things, essence 10 exalts still don't screw around with nexus too openly, why the emissary seems compelled to obey some weird alien code that makes no sense to anyone else, and why after confronting a demon in a fight where the emissary was unmasked the yozis recognized the emissary well enough to blackmail it. But... we don't know. And I prefer it to remain fan theory and "in my creation" rather then ever answering it.

The reason that Essence 10 Exalted don't mess directly with Nexus is because there's only one and he's very occupied in numerous supervisory posts in the Bureau of Destiny. As far as the view from the ground goes, having a loose Primordial that has free leeway to act would invalidate an awful lot of other plots, so it's probably best not to have the Emissary as a free Primordial.

[Sith_Happens]

I bought the second edition book several years ago, but was never able to get a game started. I hear there's a new edition coming out and while I DO find the idea of playing glorious demigods interesting I'm just not sure what to do with the setting.

Regular humans are completely pathetic against Exalts, Death Knights are rare and the wild hunt is meant to be near-certain death. What does that leave the Solars doing most of the time?

Also, the whole thing is billed as 'glorious, legendary heroes return to save the day!'. But the Solars suffer periodic psychotic episodes, and there is that whole White Wolf grey-and-grey morality. The gods are addicted to WoW, I didn't read anything about the Primordials actually deserving to be cast down, and the Solars only deserve to rule by virtue of might and the fact that the whole world is circling several drains.

Am I just approaching this with the wrong mindset? How do people generally play this game?

You're halfway to the right mindset. From what I've gathered, in a Solars game the idea is "Glorious, legendary heroes return to save and/or conquer the world... Just don't expect it to be easy or pretty."

[golentan]

The reason that Essence 10 Exalted don't mess directly with Nexus is because there's only one and he's very occupied in numerous supervisory posts in the Bureau of Destiny. As far as the view from the ground goes, having a loose Primordial that has free leeway to act would invalidate an awful lot of other plots, so it's probably best not to have the Emissary as a free Primordial.

I disagree: it only invalidates plots if the primordial is one interested and capable of engaging in those plots, and it opens up a lot of others.

[SaurOps]

I disagree: it only invalidates plots if the primordial is one interested and capable of engaging in those plots, and it opens up a lot of others.

The moment a Primordial gets interested in anything, rocks fall and everyone dies in a vast swath of Creation. On the flip side, if a Primordial never gets interested in something, yet is free to do whatever, it's kind of twee.

[ace rooster]

Though another, Laashe, did very well against the Unconquered Sun by getting the Most High to play against his own strengths. Luna then managed to fairly easily pluck Laashe out of existence.



The reason that Essence 10 Exalted don't mess directly with Nexus is because there's only one and he's very occupied in numerous supervisory posts in the Bureau of Destiny. As far as the view from the ground goes, having a loose Primordial that has free leeway to act would invalidate an awful lot of other plots, so it's probably best not to have the Emissary as a free Primordial.

A full primordial would overshadow a lot, but one of the nice thing about primordials is that you can make the Emissary just a little bit of one. The siderials might tolerate a subsiduary soul of a primordial if they thought that interfereing with it would draw the rest of the primordial's attention. It might change the gold/bronze argument considerably, from "maybe the solars could be good" to "maybe we need the solars". On the other hand, given that creation was almost destroyed and nobody thought to break the jade prison, it might not.

[ChaosArchon]

I appreciate the information so far. I'm getting a clearer picture.

What about the gods? What I got from the book was that the high ones were pretty much locked away in their basements with bags of cheetos and the exaltations are just running themselves. Which I find . . . weird. Is it just an excuse for leaving the players something to do or are the gods ever feature in some way?

So here's the thing about Heaven, its basically [insert political capital here]. The gods and sidereal are constantly trying to one up the other departments. Furthermore while Heaven is a golden city, there are alot of welll... Bum gods who lost their jobs after 90% of reality was wiped out. Furthermore there is a massive divide between the Celestial gods and the terrestrial ones. The terrerstrials were literally locked ouf of heaven while the Balorian Crusade and Great Contagion messed with Creation and actually went to war with Heaven shortly after they reopenned the doors... And got smashed.... Haaaaard.

Furthermore you have all the gods bickering with themselves over which department gets more money, employees, bigger offices, etc. Also they all distrust Sidereals, since they know they did something but can't prove it.

As for the Incarnae, only Conky (The Unconquered Sun) is utterly trapped by the Games. Luna personally visits her Chosen when they Exalt, while the Maidens are doing... Something. Maybe. They're a rather secretive lot as are their Chosen, the Sidereals.

The siddies are currentlh engaged in a civil cold war over what to do with the Solars. The reason its a cold war is that technically, the Bronze and Gold factions don't exist. What you think are faction are really just like minded friends who have tea parties and occasionally talk work... At least thats what Sidereals all claim :smallwink:

Anyway the Sidereals also act as a shadow conspiracy which controls the Realm (well Bronze tries to) as well as the Cult of Illumination (Gold faction). In addition, they have teams of sidereals who each cover a direction, as well as ones which deal with special interests like deathlords or essence users. For the most part they try to make sure Creation still exists tomorrow; fighting raksha, demons, and anything else that might want to end the world.

[TheCountAlucard]

Furthermore while Heaven is a golden city, there are alot of welll... Bum gods who lost their jobs after 90% of reality was wiped out.Only roughly half of the physical area Creation was lost to the Crusade and Contagion. Unless you're referring to the Three Spheres Cataclysm, which was
before even the dawn of the First Age (and thus the gods could've reshuffled around positions, especially with the Exalted to aid them),
uncertain of how much was truly lost (and thus it could be one or two things, or your "90% of reality"), and
something quite a few people disregard entirely (and understandably so!).

Don't get me wrong - Heaven has a sizable population of officially-unemployed gods, but I wouldn't call them "bums." Between the fountains of Quintessence of which they collect doles, and the gangs they tend to form, quite a few of them find ways of getting along.


Furthermore there is a massive divide between the Celestial gods and the terrestrial ones. The terrerstrials were literally locked ouf of heaven while the Balorian Crusade and Great Contagion messed with Creation and actually went to war with Heaven shortly after they reopenned the doors... And got smashed.... Haaaaard.It's not exactly like the interaction between the gods of Heaven and the gods of the physical world of Creation was so great before the Contagion; even before that, the Terrestrial gods had to be on legitimate business to be let into Yu-Shan, but having the doors of Heaven shut and bolted was somewhat of a breaking point for them, yes.


Furthermore you have all the gods bickering with themselves over which department gets more money, employees, bigger offices, etc. Also they all distrust Sidereals, since they know they did something but can't prove it.This bit in particular is going away in the new edition.


Conky (The Unconquered Sun)It doesn't help to refer to established characters to newbies via pet names. This is one of the reasons I get annoyed with people referring to the Ebon Dragon as "Steve."


[Only the Sun] is utterly trapped by the Games. Luna personally visits her Chosen when they Exalt...The Sun makes visitations for some among his Chosen as well, and always does so for his Zeniths.


while the Maidens are doing... Something. Maybe.They're playing the Games of Divinity, of course, as are Luna and Ignis Divine.

That said, all the Incarnae have a fair-sized audience watching them play, and sometimes one will even invite one of the attendant gods to play a turn in their stead.


The siddies are currentlh engaged in a civil cold war over what to do with the Solars.Not the words I'd use to describe it.


The reason its a cold war is that technically, the Bronze and Gold factions don't exist.Tell that to Lytek. Not only do the Factions exist, but there are a number of gods on each side.


Anyway the Sidereals also act as a shadow conspiracy which contols the Realm (well Bronze tries to)..."Heavily influences" is not "controls."


...as well as the Cult of Illumination (Gold faction).Cult of the Illuminated.


For the most part they try to make sure Creation still exists tomorrow; fighting raksha, demons, and anything else that might want to end the world.This smacks a little too heavily of the Thousand Dooms for my taste.

[ChaosArchon]

I was painting broad strokes mostly, but the Faction thing is written as an open secret. Yes they exist, you and I both know that is very much true, but technically the sidereals claim they are one big happy family. There's a reason they go by the name, Five Score Fellowship, which started during the Deliberative when they would always vote in unison since the Solars kinda shafted them in terms of how much their votes counted. While that's not the primary issue now, they still pretend to present a unified front even though they are quite clearly divided. Also when I said bums I just meant unemployed, my bad.

As for pet names, that's why I added the Unconquered Sun.

Furthermore, regarding the Maidens, I mean other than the Games which of course all the Incarnae are involved in.

As for the rest, well you're right, but as I said. Broad strokes.

Side note: The assault of Lytek made me envision Yu-Shan as ancient Rome, since it sounded like something that would have happened in the era before the empire. Also, Lytek's note to Chejak is a rather awesome moment for him as a character, loved it.

[Zale]

A full primordial would overshadow a lot, but one of the nice thing about primordials is that you can make the Emissary just a little bit of one. The siderials might tolerate a subsiduary soul of a primordial if they thought that interfereing with it would draw the rest of the primordial's attention. It might change the gold/bronze argument considerably, from "maybe the solars could be good" to "maybe we need the solars". On the other hand, given that creation was almost destroyed and nobody thought to break the jade prison, it might not.

I don't think it's possible for an entire Primordial to fit within a single city.

I mean, they're vast beyond words. A single Primordial might be an entire city-world, twelve to twenty people, and five or so other terrain features all at once. Not even counting the dozens and dozens of second-souls and vast hordes of created creatures.

It's like standing on a mountain out across the horizion, understanding that everything the light touches is at once one and many beings, including the mountain itself.

I could buy the Emissary being a third soul of some primordial though, perhaps one that somehow survived being reformatted when all everyone but Autocthon and Gaia got kicked in the self-identity. Of course, that'd be a bit like having your liver continue to run around and do things after you've been killed or lobotomized.

But it's not like weirder things haven't happened.

[ChaosArchon]

I don't think it's possible for an entire Primordial to fit within a single city.

I mean, they're vast beyond words. A single Primordial might be an entire city-world, twelve to twenty people, and five or so other terrain features all at once. Not even counting the dozens and dozens of second-souls and vast hordes of created creatures.

It's like standing on a mountain out across the horizion, understanding that everything the light touches is at once one and many beings, including the mountain itself.

I could buy the Emissary being a third soul of some primordial though, perhaps one that somehow survived being reformatted when all everyone but Autocthon and Gaia got kicked in the self-identity. Of course, that'd be a bit like having your liver continue to run around and do things after you've been killed or lobotomized.

But it's not like weirder things haven't happened.

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure Malfeas dances through his own streets. It might be a 3CD but i could have sworn it was literally just his jotun(?) walking through his world body. As for being reformatted, that is because they surrendered, so if this Primordial just ran and didn't surrender then their reformating/Yozification didn't occur.

[golentan]

I don't think it's possible for an entire Primordial to fit within a single city.

I mean, they're vast beyond words. A single Primordial might be an entire city-world, twelve to twenty people, and five or so other terrain features all at once. Not even counting the dozens and dozens of second-souls and vast hordes of created creatures.

It's like standing on a mountain out across the horizion, understanding that everything the light touches is at once one and many beings, including the mountain itself.

I could buy the Emissary being a third soul of some primordial though, perhaps one that somehow survived being reformatted when all everyone but Autocthon and Gaia got kicked in the self-identity. Of course, that'd be a bit like having your liver continue to run around and do things after you've been killed or lobotomized.

But it's not like weirder things haven't happened.

On one level, yes, on another no. Gaia has a humaniform jouten which looks like a pretty normal woman until you turn on essence sight and start screaming "MY EYES! MY EYES! OH GOD I'M BLIND, SO BRIGHT!!!" in addition to having her world body Gnosis which takes the form of a comet large enough to house a whole society. Autochthon is a vast world large enough for multiple three dimensional continents housing multiple cities each miles across, a population of tens of millions of humans who haven't explored a tenth of one percent. And he's also got a sort of nebbishy robo-man look who can appear godzilla sized or can fit in a mid-sized hall. Adorjan usually is a crimson wind that can scythe a city clean of life and sound in seconds, but sometimes she's also sometimes a little girl with paige cut hair and jade teeth.

And yes, every one of the aforementioned forms is canon.

Primordials are big cosmically, but not always landscapes. They may contain worlds, but they're non-euclidean so that whole world can fit in a teacup if they need it to and have the charms.

[Zale]

On one level, yes, on another no. Gaia has a humaniform jouten which looks like a pretty normal woman until you turn on essence sight and start screaming "MY EYES! MY EYES! OH GOD I'M BLIND, SO BRIGHT!!!" in addition to having her world body Gnosis which takes the form of a comet large enough to house a whole society. Autochthon is a vast world large enough for multiple three dimensional continents housing multiple cities each miles across, a population of tens of millions of humans who haven't explored a tenth of one percent. And he's also got a sort of nebbishy robo-man look who can appear godzilla sized or can fit in a mid-sized hall. Adorjan usually is a crimson wind that can scythe a city clean of life and sound in seconds, but sometimes she's also sometimes a little girl with paige cut hair and jade teeth.

And yes, every one of the aforementioned forms is canon.

Primordials are big cosmically, but not always landscapes. They may contain worlds, but they're non-euclidean so that whole world can fit in a teacup if they need it to and have the charms.

While I knew they could be, simultaneously, a furiously burning green sun and a handsome prince walking around, I didn't know they could just fold up one of those forms and wander away with it.

Though in retrospect, it seems fairly obvious.

I do have to wonder what a primordial's themes would have to be in order for so much of it to be content to exist within itself in such a way as to allow it to walk around in a human shaped form without, you know, having all of it's third and second souls doing stuff outside of.. it?

Because that's sort of willingly becoming what Malfeas currently is. Probably. Primordial are weird. They build the logic upon which things work, but sometimes it doesn't apply to them like it does everyone else.


But yeah, mysterious figure is mysterious.

I realized that this might be unnecessarily confusing for someone not familiar with the game though.

Um. I feel that..

..Exalted is ultimately a game where the players are divine super-weapons that were created to fight and kill the undying creators of the world. They have a great deal of personal power.

The question is what they do with it. To what end to they wield such awesome power? Motivations are much more important in Exalted than, IMO, in most other games, simply because the Exalted are expected to achieve them.

In D&D, if your character wants to overthrow the king of demons and destroy the legions of hell for eternity, then they'll probably not achieve their goal over the course of the game. They might achieve this as part of a epilogue when the campaign ends, but it's unlikely the actual game is equipped to simulate you fighting an entire army of demons and destroying one of the cornerstones of the setting.

In Exalted, you can. You can stand against the armies of the abyss and destroy them so utterly not even an agonized scream remains. You can depose the lord of hell itself and free all those trapped within..

..but then you're faced with the question of who should rule now?

Part of the danger of the Exalted is that they can get so caught up in their desires that they become the very sort of monsters they fight- It happened in the first age with the Solars and Lunars, it could happen again so easily.

Exalted is a game where you can defeat the king of hell with the power of your kung-fu, but it's also a game that asks: So what happens next?

[Jeivar]

Um. I feel that..

..Exalted is ultimately a game where the players are divine super-weapons that were created to fight and kill the undying creators of the world. They have a great deal of personal power.

The question is what they do with it. To what end to they wield such awesome power? Motivations are much more important in Exalted than, IMO, in most other games, simply because the Exalted are expected to achieve them.

In D&D, if your character wants to overthrow the king of demons and destroy the legions of hell for eternity, then they'll probably not achieve their goal over the course of the game. They might achieve this as part of a epilogue when the campaign ends, but it's unlikely the actual game is equipped to simulate you fighting an entire army of demons and destroying one of the cornerstones of the setting.

In Exalted, you can. You can stand against the armies of the abyss and destroy them so utterly not even an agonized scream remains. You can depose the lord of hell itself and free all those trapped within..

..but then you're faced with the question of who should rule now?

Part of the danger of the Exalted is that they can get so caught up in their desires that they become the very sort of monsters they fight- It happened in the first age with the Solars and Lunars, it could happen again so easily.

Exalted is a game where you can defeat the king of hell with the power of your kung-fu, but it's also a game that asks: So what happens next?

Interesting.

Has anyone here been keeping a close eye on the upcoming edition? Are any major changes being made in the setting itself?

[ChaosArchon]

Yes but too many to really count. One primary change is that the Incarnae are either even bigger idiots this time around or just jerks. They knew the Primordial Death Curse was coming, but only protected themselves, not their Chosen. Also there's alot more Lunar shards if I recall correctly.

[golentan]

Interesting.

Has anyone here been keeping a close eye on the upcoming edition? Are any major changes being made in the setting itself?

There are way more exalted of way more types, all of the boring things they swore were interesting actually are now, the world is way bigger and more complex, and solars are both weaker and stronger depending how you look at it compared to other things (and also are interesting, I found solars pretty boring before).

[Weimann]

As Zale pointed out, consequences is the key to Exalted. It can be in many other games too, of course, but in Exalted the setting has an expansive history and PCs can get several centuries old as baseline. It's made for characters to get to live with their choices, both good and bad.

[TheCountAlucard]

One primary change is that the Incarnae are either even bigger idiots this time around or just jerks.Lot of false dichotomy there, buddy.

Also, incorrect: the Incarnae are not going to be hogging the spotlight so individual games can decide what the Incarnae are like for themselves.


They knew the Primordial Death Curse was coming, but only protected themselves, not their Chosen.Implying they had the means to protect the Exalted host in its entirety, over ten thousand beings, from a titanic death-curse that rebounded off the defenses they threw up around themselves. I don't think that necessarily follows. Hell, I don't think it even follows that the Incarnae definitely knew the Great Curse would rebound off their mighty bulwarks, as opposed to breaking entirely, or that it would instead hit their Chosen.

As for them knowing the curse was coming, sure, let's say they did - it could very well be in the sense that when you think the bear you shot is dead, only for it to give one last, violent convulsion, you "know" its paw is coming at you. You may even have time to throw your arms up to protect your vitals! But that doesn't necessarily mean you have the time and ability to also stop its other paw from eviscerating your hunting buddy Zeke on the other side of the bear. You might not even know he's that close to it (last you saw him, he was fiddling with the ice chest - probably getting a beer)!


Also there's alot more Lunar shards if I recall correctly.It's more that they're rolling the number back to the more nebulous 1e figure - "It looks like there's around 400."

[Jeivar]

As Zale pointed out, consequences is the key to Exalted. It can be in many other games too, of course, but in Exalted the setting has an expansive history and PCs can get several centuries old as baseline. It's made for characters to get to live with their choices, both good and bad.

I will definitely be keeping that in mind. Thanks.


, and solars are both weaker and stronger depending how you look at it compared to other things.

I hope I'm not asking too many questions, but could someone give an example?

[TheCountAlucard]

I hope I'm not asking too many questions, but could someone give an example?In the days of 2e it was trivial to build a Solar that was more or less invulnerable in combat. No number of mortal assailants could matter against him, and against opponents with access to Essence, he had another layer of invulnerability stacked over that one. A combat would generally be settled by figuring out who could make the other person run out of motes with which to power their defenses, and then splat them in one hit, often without even any Charms to enhance the attack.

That's at Essence 2, mind.

Conversely, you couldn't even initiate into sorcery until your Essence was at least 3.

[Andreaz]

[...]while I DO find the idea of playing glorious demigods interesting I'm just not sure what to do with the setting.Well, let's get started :)
Regular humans are completely pathetic against Exalts, Death Knights are rare and the wild hunt is meant to be near-certain death. What does that leave the Solars doing most of the time?Regular individuals are "completely pathetic" against exalts. Usually. So when you want to directly challenge the exalt you don't throw a person at it, you throw far far more. The Wyld Hunt is widely known for using several troops just to wear them down.
But there are better ways to go about it.

You want an individual to challenge your exalts? Make them dance to the individual's tune. Sure, the despot ruling over the nation is a piddly ball of soft, useless meat. Sure, you want to dethrone him. And you totally can just walk up to him and slice him open, the guards just won't be able to react in time, even if they could make you work your way out.

But will that win you his court? Are you sure you can put someone in his place, even yourself, without the support of the local nobles and riches? Do you really want to 'save' the population from its oppressive regent by throwing them in civil war?
The same applies to making him see the error of his ways. Are you sure the rest of his support cast will like it? ALLOW it?
You can do it, definitely, but it's not just going to be a single roll of dice that will do it. You'll have to work your way to success.

Also, the whole thing is billed as 'glorious, legendary heroes return to save the day!'. But the Solars suffer periodic psychotic episodes, and there is that whole White Wolf grey-and-grey morality.Wise and Powerful is the solar that manages to get what he wants despite that. Unstoppable is the solar that learns to work around these spurs. However, notice the Curse is an insidious secret. By and large, they don't know of it. Those "psychotic spurs" feel totally fine for them, if excessive. Just remember to always Break in ways that make sense for the character! A proud warrior may go berserk, a righteous monk may falter and fall in vice or isolate himself for purification. A jaded queen may be overly cruel in her mandates.
The gods are addicted to WoW, I didn't read anything about the Primordials actually deserving to be cast down, and the Solars only deserve to rule by virtue of might and the fact that the whole world is circling several drains.The entire history of Creation is a testament that Might is Right... and the little ones always rise up to cast their superiors down. It happened with Primordials and Gods. Solars and Dragonblooded. Even the scarlet empress herself, with her entire empire at her disposal, had to bow down to the Guild, unable to shut it down, and it started (and is ruled primarily) by mortal men and women.
On the primordials deserving to be cast down... No one ever deserves what they suffer, but live with them in command was little better than impossible. Humans were slaves to dinosaur-people, whose best destiny was to fight, die and have your heart sacrificed in honor of the sun. Wherever a primordial went, chaos and destruction ensued: Consider even one of them is large enough to cover countrysides, and their influence drives people mad.
Hegra passing by? Forget Germany, it's all one big pool of people passed out drooling or ****ing themselves to oblivion. Except for those two over there, they will probably stop eating people's faces when their teeth fall out. Probably.
The Principle of Hierarchy looked your way? Now you are either whispering its name until you die, unable to stop, or you are reduced to a drone, toiling endlessly in a predeterined pattern that completely overrides your will.

So, at least from the human perspective, things are far better without them.
Am I just approaching this with the wrong mindset? How do people generally play this game?Maybe. The most important thing about challenging exalts is that the important question is not "what can challenge them?", but "Are they prepared to deal with the consequences of their actions?".

It's an old saying among exalted players... For all their power, grandeur and vastly expanded consciousness, no exalt has powers to make them wise.

It's been said already, but I'll repeat: Exalts, just like normal people, are creatures of Desire and Ambition. All of them, without exception, want something, believe in something, detest something.... have something that drives them to action. Some hate slavery, and thus work to end it. Some wish to rule over everyone, and thus build kingdoms. Some want to return to the glourious golden age, and work to rebuild it. Some love their craft, and bake the tastiest cakes in existence.
The players are asked to give their characters a reason to act, and rewards them for pursuing it. Let them. Challenge them.

[golentan]

Well, let's get started :)Regular individuals are "completely pathetic" against exalts. Usually. So when you want to directly challenge the exalt you don't throw a person at it, you throw far far more. The Wyld Hunt is widely known for using several troops just to wear them down.
But there are better ways to go about it.

You want an individual to challenge your exalts? Make them dance to the individual's tune. Sure, the despot ruling over the nation is a piddly ball of soft, useless meat. Sure, you want to dethrone him. And you totally can just walk up to him and slice him open, the guards just won't be able to react in time, even if they could make you work your way out.

But will that win you his court? Are you sure you can put someone in his place, even yourself, without the support of the local nobles and riches? Do you really want to 'save' the population from its oppressive regent by throwing them in civil war?
The same applies to making him see the error of his ways. Are you sure the rest of his support cast will like it? ALLOW it?

You can do it, definitely, but it's not just going to be a single roll of dice that will do it. You'll have to work your way to success.

*Cough* social charms totally allow you to take over without the hassle of gutting the king.


Wise and Powerful is the solar that manages to get what he wants despite that. Unstoppable is the solar that learns to work around these spurs. However, notice the Curse is an insidious secret. By and large, they don't know of it. Those "psychotic spurs" feel totally fine for them, if excessive. Just remember to always Break in ways that make sense for the character! A proud warrior may go berserk, a righteous monk may falter and fall in vice or isolate himself for purification. A jaded queen may be overly cruel in her mandates.The entire history of Creation is a testament that Might is Right... and the little ones always rise up to cast their superiors down. It happened with Primordials and Gods. Solars and Dragonblooded. Even the scarlet empress herself, with her entire empire at her disposal, had to bow down to the Guild, unable to shut it down, and it started (and is ruled primarily) by mortal men and women.
On the primordials deserving to be cast down... No one ever deserves what they suffer, but live with them in command was little better than impossible. Humans were slaves to dinosaur-people, whose best destiny was to fight, die and have your heart sacrificed in honor of the sun. Wherever a primordial went, chaos and destruction ensued: Consider even one of them is large enough to cover countrysides, and their influence drives people mad.
Hegra passing by? Forget Germany, it's all one big pool of people passed out drooling or ****ing themselves to oblivion. Except for those two over there, they will probably stop eating people's faces when their teeth fall out. Probably.
The Principle of Hierarchy looked your way? Now you are either whispering its name until you die, unable to stop, or you are reduced to a drone, toiling endlessly in a predeterined pattern that completely overrides your will.

So, at least from the human perspective, things are far better without them.Maybe. The most important thing about challenging exalts is that the important question is not "what can challenge them?", but "Are they prepared to deal with the consequences of their actions?".

Agreed here.


It's an old saying among exalted players... For all their power, grandeur and vastly expanded consciousness, no exalt has powers to make them wise.

Well actually... Wise Choice literally will tell you the best course of action to pursue your goal, you just need to know how to ask it the right questions.


It's been said already, but I'll repeat: Exalts, just like normal people, are creatures of Desire and Ambition. All of them, without exception, want something, believe in something, detest something.... have something that drives them to action. Some hate slavery, and thus work to end it. Some wish to rule over everyone, and thus build kingdoms. Some want to return to the glourious golden age, and work to rebuild it. Some love their craft, and bake the tastiest cakes in existence.
The players are asked to give their characters a reason to act, and rewards them for pursuing it. Let them. Challenge them.

Definitely this.

[Andreaz]

*Cough* social charms totally allow you to take over without the hassle of gutting the king.Didn't I include the social version there? AoEing hypnosis is not going to cut it without some serious hassle. And that hassle is what I'm talking about.

[Yuki Akuma]

There's totally Bureaucracy charms that let you ignore all the hassle, though.

A skilled enough Solar really can just walk into a kingdom and say 'this is mine now' and get it in like a day of work.

[golentan]

There's totally Bureaucracy charms that let you ignore all the hassle, though.

A skilled enough Solar really can just walk into a kingdom and say 'this is mine now' and get it in like a day of work.

Unless opposed by other exalts or supernatural beings, which is where the fun comes in anyway. You do that, someone hears about it and depending on their religious affiliiation and greed level will tell or sell the story of the anathema king to the wyld hunt. Or a lunar objects to you messing with their part of the river, because the kingdom is supposed to remain mortal run. Or...

[Jeivar]

In the days of 2e it was trivial to build a Solar that was more or less invulnerable in combat. No number of mortal assailants could matter against him, and against opponents with access to Essence, he had another layer of invulnerability stacked over that one. A combat would generally be settled by figuring out who could make the other person run out of motes with which to power their defenses, and then splat them in one hit, often without even any Charms to enhance the attack.

That's at Essence 2, mind.

Conversely, you couldn't even initiate into sorcery until your Essence was at least 3.

Yes, I was warned back in the day that taking perfect defences was virtually mandatory and that battles basically revolved around Essence attrition. If the combat has been made more varied I am all for that.

[golentan]

Yes, I was warned back in the day that taking perfect defences was virtually mandatory and that battles basically revolved around Essence attrition. If the combat has been made more varied I am all for that.

From what I've seen, the name of the game now is at least in part "stay out of range of the Dawn Caste until they're already stressed, and even then think twice before charging in." There's a real ebb and flow to combat, don't get me wrong, but, well... Dawns are gonna be TERRIFYING one on one. Swarming seems to work though...

[Milo v3]

I've heard one of the best ways to play Exalted is as an anime-esque over the top slice of life... No idea on if that's actually a good idea or not since I have not attempted it, but it has been I thing I've heard.

[Andreaz]

I've heard one of the best ways to play Exalted is as an anime-esque over the top slice of life... No idea on if that's actually a good idea or not since I have not attempted it, but it has been I thing I've heard.

I've done both that, roman epic and full power political intrigue. All work fine, I think. All three were years-long games, with only minor hurdles even during heavy action...

[ChaosArchon]

From what I've seen, the name of the game now is at least in part "stay out of range of the Dawn Caste until they're already stressed, and even then think twice before charging in." There's a real ebb and flow to combat, don't get me wrong, but, well... Dawns are gonna be TERRIFYING one on one. Swarming seems to work though...

Also combat sorcery seems to actually be a viable thing this time around, so yay Twilights! :smallbiggrin:

[golentan]

Also combat sorcery seems to actually be a viable thing this time around, so yay Twilights! :smallbiggrin:

I do think that sorcery will go from a rare thing on my characters to more common than not. And that's a good thing.