View Full Version : To9S without SU

2007-04-26, 10:00 PM
Hey All,

Was wondering if any of you out there ran Tome of 9Swords without using the SU Maneuvre's. If so how did you find the play, how did the Cold and Fire school handle Powerwise and how did you like it / any comments.

I am considering it for my new campeign ( The Other Option was just removing the Fire and Cold School's ( Desert wind and whatever) but their are a lot of good abilities otherwise in them. I'm not looking for a discussion of BUT TEH FIGHTRE"S NED THIS 2 KeP w/ WIIZZZIES but rather if someone has done this or something like it and how they found it



Merlin the Tuna
2007-04-26, 10:26 PM
Now, I'm trying not to be mean here, but your posting is almost entirely indecipherable, which makes me question your seriousness. I'd advise cleaning that up a bit.

The Tome of Battle works just fine without supernatural abilities. It doesn't even require house-ruling, actually -- two of the three base classes simply don't have access to supernatural maneuvers in the first place. In addition, the fire-based school is undoubtedly the weakest and easiest to defend against (and I mean those separately), so many avoid it altogether anyway. There isn't a cold-based school (Desert Wind is the only one mechanically tied to an element), so you could be referring to either Shadow Hand or just having seen someone with a Desert Wind remixed to deal cold damage instead of fire.

Shadow Hand I'll admit is a lot of fun, and it gets hit pretty hard by not having access to supernatural abilities. Still, it's Swordsage only, which means that Crusaders and Warblades don't have it anyway, and Swordsages have plenty of other schools to draw techniques from -- you simply won't see any Shadow Hand specialists.

So yeah, it works fine.

2007-04-26, 10:28 PM
I agree on disliking desert wind.

I just wish there were other schools tied to the scimitar.

2007-04-26, 10:51 PM
I love ToB, and my favorite schools aren't even about supernatural stuff - Setting Sun is based on using an opponents strength, mostly throwing people all over, which is awesome, Diamond Mind, the whole mind over matter concept, and Iron Heart, which is based on swordsman spirit. Plenty of non-supernatural power.

2007-04-26, 11:01 PM
It seems like it should be balanced, but why? Why remove the supernatural abilities? There's already precedent for warrior-mystics having supernatural abilities from pure fighting skill (Monks), so why not give the Swordsages (also warrior-mystics) supernatural abilities?

Even if you don't have supernatural warriors in your setting, the Swordsage could be justified by adding magical training to it. Not enough to cast real spells; they just train in magic enough to learn how to cast "light my sword on fire" and the like.

I think there's some supernatural stuff in Devoted Spirit, but the Crusader is just as justified in having Supernatural power as the Paladin is, and makes more sense than the Paladin, as shown here:
Paladin: I am a holy champion of light and my god. You shall feel my wrath, evildoer! *Smite repeatedly, take some hits in a hard fight, Lay on Hands*
ENTER Evil Lieutenant
Lieutenant: Hahahahaha! Your god cannot save you now! You can only smite evil three times per day, and there's no way you have any Lay on Hands after those wounds you took!
Paladin: But I am the chosen champion of light! Why have you forsaken me in this hour of need? Why?
Lieutenant: *stabs*

Crusader: I am a holy champion of light and my god. You shall feel my wrath, evildoer! *Smashes with a series of martial strikes, all while healing himself, between a Revitalizing Strike and the Aura of Triumph*
ENTER Evil Lieutenant
Lieutenant: Hahahahaha! Your god cannot save you now! You just used all of your maneuvers!
Crusader: What are you talking about? I took a feat to get all of my stuff back every three rounds, and the feat only shaves one round off of it.
Lieutenant: Oh, ****berries.
Crusader: *Smashes*