gauging new abilities for weapon design

[Sindeloke]

Taking as our premise that we want to create a balanced, varied weapon system meeting the general premises, if not the precise specifics, of Easy_Lee's Weapon Logic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?378583-Weapon-Damage-Logic-How-to-Homebrew-and-Why-Some-Weapons-are-Trap-Options) (just hedging my bets there, I don't think I disagree with any of his assessments), how do we balance these two potential weapon traits?

Armor-Piercing: The impact velocity of these weapons renders most armor essentially cosmetic, and forces their victims to rely on pure reflexes to escape damage. When you attack with an armor-piercing weapon, you don't make an attack roll; instead, your target makes a Dexterity save against 8+your prof+your relevant modifier.

Mechanical: The damage of these weapons is derived purely from their own internal mechanisms. You don't add any attribute bonus to the damage of a mechanical weapon.

I'm thinking AP doesn't actually affect anything. You're just going from one common defense to another, and if cantrips are any indication that's considered an equal trade.

Mechanical is a tough nut though. Worst case, you're costing the player up to -5 damage per hit, but no one's ever going to realistically use a mechanical weapon if they have 20 in the relevant stat. Best case, the player is actually gaining +1 damage, but that's almost as niche and unlikely as the other way round. So split the difference? Bump the damage up by two dice, so it simulates a 14 in stat, and it becomes a nice sidearm for a dump stat, but doesn't disrupt the balance of dedicated weapon-based death dealers?

[ThermalSlapShot]

For a game such as 5e less is more.

So if you are going to give abilities to weapons what I would do is make weapons deal damage based on the class using it's Hit Dice.

So weapons for the fighter deal a d10 and for the Cleric they deal a d8.

Or just make all weapons do the same damage, you know since getting stabbed or cut with a dagger can kill just as easily (or even more so) than getting stabbed or cut with a long sword.

Then you can fluff the weapon based on its special feature.

Special features should be minor but rewarding, much like cantrips.

Then assume that this is what a level 1 martial can do.

http://i.imgur.com/IXh5nFf.gif


If you are proficient with a weapon you may use the weapon with its special property. Make some cool special properties.

Something like this would make martial in 5e tons of fun.

Grappling Hook
There is a damn grappling hook attached to your weapon by a chain that is 30'. You may use the grappling hook as a weapon to pull creatures toward you or to pull yourself toward an object. Attack versus AC, athletics versus athletics or pull the creature to you (10 to 20'). If you lose the check you may use your reaction to allow yourself to be pulled to the creature. You may pull yourself to an object automatically (10 - 20').

Everyone complains that martial abilities will slow down play, sure, but they won't slow down play no where near what spells do. Since people will generally have the same weapon they will get familiar with it and how it works instead of having 8-20+ choices to remember. Think of how dynamic game play can get with such weapons as "grappling hook". When you are in close you won't use it or you will take disadvantage but as a way to cover ground and grab enemies it will be fantastic.

[Goten123]

are u going desingn only abilities or also the weapon??...

[Gurka]

The Armor Piercing attribute is an interesting idea. It's always been annoying to model in D&D since armor is pure avoidance rather than absorption. I don't think it'd be unbalanced your way, though it'd probably feel weird to a lot of diehard mundane players.

Most armor piercing weapons from antiquity (bodkin arrows, military picks, warhammers; real ones, not D&D warhammers) relied on focusing all of their penetrating force into as small a footprint as possible (maximum lbs/sq inch of force), which meant that while still deadly, they actually inflicted less traumatic injuries than bladed, or conventional bludgeoning weapons. My thought on it would be along these lines, for using bodkin arrows/quarrels or a proper warhammer or military pick. The warhammer would us the same stats as in the equipment section, save for the following, and the Pick would use the battle axe entry.

Reduce damage die type by 1, gain Advantage vs targets in medium or heavy armor, damage type changes to Piercing. This way it's better vs folks in armor, worse vs folks without, just like they were IRL. Medium might be too much, maybe just vs heavy armor. Would have to try it out.

As for Mechanical, it's a good idea, but the first weapon that comes to mind is the crossbow. The problem there is that the reason you add DEX to damage (in theory) is because you're landing shots to more vulnerable/critical locations, not by hitting harder (that's the realm of STR). Eschewing that means that skill comes out of the equation for damage altogether. I'm not opposed to it, just playing the devil's advocate.

[darkscizor]

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Armor-Piercing: The impact velocity of these weapons renders most armor essentially cosmetic, and forces their victims to rely on pure reflexes to escape damage. When you attack with an armor-piercing weapon, you don't make an attack roll; instead, your target makes a Dexterity save against 8+your prof+your relevant modifier.
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Won't work. There are no crits, and at high levels, players can hit more often. Players like attack rolls, they're a gpod mechanic. So make the target make a DC 8+Proficiency+Strength Dexterity saving throw, taking an additional die of damage on a failed save.

[Sindeloke]

As for Mechanical, it's a good idea, but the first weapon that comes to mind is the crossbow. The problem there is that the reason you add DEX to damage (in theory) is because you're landing shots to more vulnerable/critical locations, not by hitting harder (that's the realm of STR). Eschewing that means that skill comes out of the equation for damage altogether. I'm not opposed to it, just playing the devil's advocate.

Haha, you caught me. We're playing around with an old idea from 3.path where all damage is from Strength, even with ranged weapons. (No screwing around with +1-3 compound bow nonsense, either; it's just assumed that you've selected a draw weight appropriate to your strength the same way it's assumed you picked armor that actually fits). Which doesn't make sense for crossbows (or guns, also a weapon in the setting), so they become a tool for low--strength characters with minimal weapon training (comparatively anyway), much like real life.


Won't work. There are no crits, and at high levels, players can hit more often. Players like attack rolls, they're a gpod mechanic. So make the target make a DC 8+Proficiency+Strength Dexterity saving throw, taking an additional die of damage on a failed save.

That sort of goes the opposite direction; armor becomes more important by preventing all weapon damage, while your agility only partly reduces it. If you want crits it's easy enough to just say "a 1 on a save is a crit" (extend that to a 1-3 for champions, or whatev).