[3.5] Making an Intelligent Wyvern

[D4rkh0rus]

Im thinking of getting Dragon Cohort for a build, but the choices given, especially at the levels they are and so on, often have bad intelligence.

I've chosen to get a Wyvern (I like how it looks, it does not seem op, Doesnt get spellcasting, etc. Also, Wyvern Rider sounds better than Wyrmling Rider.) But I wanted to make him Smarter.

Now, I'm at a loss as to a RaW method of giving him extra Int. (By this, I mean Duration: Instantaneous Effects).

Of course, a +5 Int tome would be a decent solution, but I was wondering what other means there were (Especially if they're cheaper)



On that note, Is this a viable method? Or is something flawing it?

Polymorph the Wyvern into an animal, then Awaken it (Empowered or maximized) Then end the polymorph and done.

[Urpriest]

First, let's make sure you're not overlooking the obvious:

Make sure to pick up your Wyvern when you can attract an ECL 13 Dragon Cohort. This allows it to start with one PC class level. In addition to all the goodies that a class level gives, this means it starts with NPC wealth and the elite array. Put its high score into Int and congrats, your Wyvern is already at average human intelligence. Add the ability score boost from reaching 8HD to seal the deal.

I'm not sure why you're prioritizing Instantaneous methods, since a Headband of Int works just fine. Sure it'll be dumber in an AMF, but so is the party Wizard.

That out of the way...

Yes, Awaken cycling works by RAW. Pretty much the only way to rule against it is to have Awaken give LA --, and there isn't really enough textual evidence to back that up.

That said, you're talking about an actual game. Awaken cycling is Tippyverse level cheese. If your Wyvern can do it, then you can do it, everyone in the party can do it, enemy Druids can do it...unless you're playing with Tippy himself, this is probably going to break the game wide open. Don't set the precedent.

[ShaneMRoth]

...
Awaken cycling works by RAW. Pretty much the only way to rule against it is to have Awaken give LA --, and there isn't really enough textual evidence to back that up.



Textual evidence: Exhibit A.

The spell description for Polymorph opens with the following words:


This spell functions like Alter Self

Textual evidence: Exhibit B.

According to Alter Self...


You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind.

Emphasis added.

Textual evidence: Exhibit C.

The first words in the spell description for Awaken:


You awaken a tree or animal to humanlike sentience.

In order for a tree or animal to acquire humanlike sentience, it must first lack humanlike sentience.

In other words, you can't awaken something that is already awake.

[D4rkh0rus]

First, let's make sure you're not overlooking the obvious:

Make sure to pick up your Wyvern when you can attract an ECL 13 Dragon Cohort. This allows it to start with one PC class level. In addition to all the goodies that a class level gives, this means it starts with NPC wealth and the elite array. Put its high score into Int and congrats, your Wyvern is already at average human intelligence. Add the ability score boost from reaching 8HD to seal the deal.

I'm not sure why you're prioritizing Instantaneous methods, since a Headband of Int works just fine. Sure it'll be dumber in an AMF, but so is the party Wizard.

That out of the way...

Yes, Awaken cycling works by RAW. Pretty much the only way to rule against it is to have Awaken give LA --, and there isn't really enough textual evidence to back that up.

That said, you're talking about an actual game. Awaken cycling is Tippyverse level cheese. If your Wyvern can do it, then you can do it, everyone in the party can do it, enemy Druids can do it...unless you're playing with Tippy himself, this is probably going to break the game wide open. Don't set the precedent.

good to know, Thanks.



Textual evidence: Exhibit A.

The spell description for Polymorph opens with the following words:



Textual evidence: Exhibit B.

According to Alter Self...



Emphasis added.

Textual evidence: Exhibit C.

The first words in the spell description for Awaken:



In order for a tree or animal to acquire humanlike sentience, it must first lack humanlike sentience.

In other words, you can't awaken something that is already awake.

... Makes sense.

[Mr Adventurer]

Make it Venerable, it'll have +3 to all mental stats. And -6 to all physical ones...

[Dusk Eclipse]

I forget, is the ability to ignore ability score penalties from age a thing for all dragons or just True dragons?

[Brova]

In order for a tree or animal to acquire humanlike sentience, it must first lack humanlike sentience.

In other words, you can't awaken something that is already awake.

This is not true. The statement that you have X does not preclude acquiring X. For example, Bill Gates has, by any standard, a lot of money. No part of that stops him from acquiring a lot of money. In this specific instance, the mechanics of the spell outline it's effect. Namely, the target's Cha increases by 1d3, the target's HD increase by 2, and something involving 3d6 Int happens (it probably sets it to 3d6, but there's a contradiction in the language used).

[Urpriest]

Textual evidence: Exhibit A.

The spell description for Polymorph opens with the following words:



Textual evidence: Exhibit B.

According to Alter Self...



Emphasis added.

Textual evidence: Exhibit C.

The first words in the spell description for Awaken:



In order for a tree or animal to acquire humanlike sentience, it must first lack humanlike sentience.

In other words, you can't awaken something that is already awake.

That logic would also cause Polymorph to make you immune to Feeblemind. "While retaining your own mind" just means that the Polymorph spell itself doesn't alter your mind, later spells can still do so.

That said, it would be a fair ruling that Awaken, in awakening a new intelligence, erases your original mind. If the OP is already heavily invested in making their steed as intelligent as possible, though, then they're already pretty evil, so they might not mind doing that.

[Ruethgar]

As another little boost the DMGII has special NPC qualities, one of which is +2 Int and +2 on Int related checks.