Dungeoncrasher + Pushback

[Dyslexic]

If I bull rush an opponent with the Pushback feat, can I force him to move into a wall if I have the dungeoncrsher alternative class feature?

[Flickerdart]

If I bull rush an opponent with the Pushback feat, can I force him to move into a wall if I have the dungeoncrsher alternative class feature?
Do you mean Knockback? Dungeoncrasher doesn't specify what circumstances add the damage other than "bull rush" and Knockback does a bull rush, so it works.

[Darrin]

Do you mean Knockback? Dungeoncrasher doesn't specify what circumstances add the damage other than "bull rush" and Knockback does a bull rush, so it works.

Pushback is a feat in the Miniatures Handbook.


If I bull rush an opponent with the Pushback feat, can I force him to move into a wall if I have the dungeoncrsher alternative class feature?

To answer your question: No.

From the text for Pushback:

"You can’t push an opponent back through (or into) solid obstacles or otherwise occupied squares. If, after making the bull rush attempt, you would not be able to move into a square previously occupied by the opponent, you can’t push that opponent back."

[Dyslexic]

Ok, I must find a way to take Knockback.
Thank you!

[Darrin]

Ok, I must find a way to take Knockback.
Thank you!

What race are you starting with? What sourcebooks are allowed? Is the character already in play?

[Dyslexic]

Race: tarmak (races of ansalon), proto-creature (bestiary of krinn), broodguard (savage species)
I can use all the official books and magazine (maybe the DM can accept PF and 3.0 things)
I'm a level 10.

And the campaign isn't already started.

If you need more information about my character (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423322-My-firs-gestalt-Totemist-barbarian).

[Darrin]

Race: tarmak (races of ansalon), proto-creature (bestiary of krinn), broodguard (savage species)
I can use all the official books and magazine (maybe the DM can accept PF and 3.0 things)
I'm a level 10.


Hmm. Well, the Half-Minotaur template comes to mind first (Dragon #313), but I'm not sure how the LA +1 would work with your gestalt build... might have to lose a level on the Totemist side, maybe? Works well with the setting, too, as Krynn is one of the few campaigns with Minotaurs as a playable race from the get-go.

There's also the polymorph any object route: pay a spellcaster to cast it twice (1200 GP each, 2400 GP total), which turns you permanently into a large-sized creature. But it's still an ongoing spell effect, and can be dispelled.

There are at least two item-based options: Phylactery of Change (11200 GP, A&EG) can do all-day polymorph up to 7 HD, and Fleshshifter Armor (13160 GP, Book of Vile Darkness) can do alter self at will up to 5 HD.

[Roga]

The Jotunbrud Regional feat effectively gives you Powerful Build which allows you to qualify for classes and feats as if you were Large size. It's in Races of Faerun, and if you don't meet the region/race for it you can spend 2 ranks in Knowledge (Local) to take it.

[Necroticplague]

The Jotunbrud Regional feat effectively gives you Powerful Build which allows you to qualify for classes and feats as if you were Large size. It's in Races of Faerun, and if you don't meet the region/race for it you can spend 2 ranks in Knowledge (Local) to take it.

No it doesn't, and no it doesn't. Jutonbrud lets you be considered large for a few specific purposes. It does not actually grant you the Powerful Build ability. And even if it did, Powerful Build, similarly, only lets you qualify as Large for a (slightly more) few specific purposes. Such purposes do no include 'qualifying for a feat or PRC'. There are some specific exceptions to this, which is noted in the text of the feat itself (all found in Races of Stone, to the best of my memory). Notably, Knockbacks text only specifies that goliath's qualify because of their powerful build, not that anybody with powerful build qualifies. However, if ruled that it's the Powerful Build part that's important, one can gain that through the Stoneboned template.

[Andreaz]

"You can’t push an opponent back through (or into) solid obstacles or otherwise occupied squares. If, after making the bull rush attempt, you would not be able to move into a square previously occupied by the opponent, you can’t push that opponent back." i see nothing in that description that works differently from a bull rush. It simply cannot push people into walls, but surely can crash them on them. Ordinarily they just hit the
obstacle and the journey ends. Dungeoncrasher makes damage out of it.

[Dyslexic]

But pushback say: If, after making the bull rush attempt, you would not be able to move into a square previously occupied by the opponent, you can't push that opponent back.

[Darrin]

i see nothing in that description that works differently from a bull rush. It simply cannot push people into walls, but surely can crash them on them. Ordinarily they just hit the
obstacle and the journey ends. Dungeoncrasher makes damage out of it.

Dungeon Crasher works when you bull rush someone into a wall or other stationary object. Pushback explicitly does not allow this.

I would allow it to work as a houserule, because I'm a firm believer in Melee Should Have Nice Things.

[Roga]

No it doesn't, and no it doesn't. Jutonbrud lets you be considered large for a few specific purposes. It does not actually grant you the Powerful Build ability. And even if it did, Powerful Build, similarly, only lets you qualify as Large for a (slightly more) few specific purposes. Such purposes do no include 'qualifying for a feat or PRC'. There are some specific exceptions to this, which is noted in the text of the feat itself (all found in Races of Stone, to the best of my memory). Notably, Knockbacks text only specifies that goliath's qualify because of their powerful build, not that anybody with powerful build qualifies. However, if ruled that it's the Powerful Build part that's important, one can gain that through the Stoneboned template.

Ah sorry, I guess I got used to a house rule and forgot that it wasn't the normal way. :smallfrown: