The HERO system 5th edition

[EvilJames]

Has anyone else ever used this I'm going to be running a wierd west game, come May and was wondering if anyone else has used this system. I've played a Star Wars game using this system and liked it, but I've never run anything with it before and would appreciate any tips for keeping it under control and interesting.

[henebry]

I'm curious myself to hear what people say in reply. I played Champions in its first ed. form, the game on which the Hero system was based. Great game for superhero rp, but I'm not really sold on the idea of genre-independent systems.

[EvilJames]

Like I said it worked really well for star wars

[Rob Knotts]

I started with Champions/Hero back around the 3rd edition, and I've been trying to figure out what kind of game to run with my new 5th books. Recently I've started to think that Hero 5th can work really well for just about any action setting, if you forget about the "Heroic" options. My opinion nowadays is that the rules for Heroic characters (especially encumberance) are a kind of clumsy compromise for players from other systems who are't used being able to buy weapons or other equipment as part of the character. Forget about making equipment seperate from the character - if if looks like a power, sounds like a power, and works like a power, the character should buy it as a power. For a weird west game, I'd treat guns, knives, invocations all as powers for the characters to buy - the ideas that using a power requires holding a gun, a knife, or chanting something are more important for the actual roleplaying than the stats on the character sheet.

Most types of characters (gunslingers, warriors, shamans, preachers, shotgun schoolmarms) should have some sort of signature power framework (usually multi or EC) to reflect what they normally do in combat.

Horses can bought as either agents (if they're unique) or even vehicles (if they're more like a background element).

Don't worry about encumberance for equipment needed for powers, but keep it in mind when there isn't a horse around to carry gold, dead/unconcious bounty targets, valuable saddles, monster trophies...

If the characters find/steal a magical item or rare gun, let them use it when they first find it, but if they want to keep it for regular use have them start putting aside points for it.Just a word of warning: unless you're players are used to Champions, they will hate you for this sort of thing. If they give it a chance though, they'll probably like the idea of being able to customize thier characters so much in the long run.

PS: I've been thinking about this a lot lately for a fantasy game:smallbiggrin:

[Dragonmuncher]

That's how Mutants and Masterminds handles powers. If a power requires a piece of equipment, like special gloves for the "Strike" power, or a weapon, or a gun, or a teleportation belt, instead of simply being innate, it gets a slight discount.

Speaking of M&M, how IS it different than the HERO system? I've heard good things about both.

[Rob Knotts]

Speaking of M&M, how IS it different than the HERO system? I've heard good things about both.It borrows a little structure from d20 (feats, power levels), but in general it's a lot more streamlined than Hero. M&M doesn't have the same kind of fine control in combat or character creation as Hero, but the flipside is that characters are a lot easier to create and combat scenes are faster and more spontaneous. I'm still a fan of Hero, but ironically I prefer M&M for superheroes over Champions, I just like being able to treat superheroes more casually (lot of superhero comics take themselves too seriously).

[EvilJames]

Well two of my players are from the Star wars game so they are used to the system (one is the GM from the starwars game) also I have the program that makes character creation a lot easier:smallcool: and one is a warhammer player (so he should be used to it as well) Most characters are made already so I don't forsee the weapons being a problem, but i'll take your warning into consideration.

thanks for all the help so far

[Dragonmuncher]

It borrows a little structure from d20 (feats, power levels), but in general it's a lot more streamlined than Hero. M&M doesn't have the same kind of fine control in combat or character creation as Hero, but the flipside is that characters are a lot easier to create and combat scenes are faster and more spontaneous. I'm still a fan of Hero, but ironically I prefer M&M for superheroes over Champions, I just like being able to treat superheroes more casually (lot of superhero comics take themselves too seriously).

Hm... I should have been more specific. I already know about M&M, I was curious about HERO. Sorry!

[Rob Knotts]

Hm... I should have been more specific. I already know about M&M, I was curious about HERO. Sorry!
There's quite a bit of math involved in figuring out several basic attributes for the characters: Stun = Body + {(Str+Con)/5}
Hero characters all have an Endurance score (2xCon), and by default almost all physical actions and many powers cost endurance to use (a built-in method of managing power use).
When customizing powers, instead of just adding or subtracting from the final cost of the power, you end up multiplying (advantages) and/or dividing (disads) the cost with a fraction+1
Costs for powers can get pretty high when the default cost for 1 level (die) of a power is 5 points (makes the multiplication/division come out cleaner)
Hero's Perks and Talents are very similar to Feats, but when it comes to modifying combat maneuvers you usually have to buy specific skill levels for specific actions (sometimes modified by disads).
A combat Turn in Hero is 12 seconds, corresponding to a sequence of 12 possible "phases" (actions) per round per character. The expensive SPD attribute determines how many phases a character has to use each turn.
Hero calls power arrays power frameworks, and divides them into Mulitpowers, Elemental Controls, and Variable Power Pools.
Multipowers work a lot like standard arrays, VPPs like dynamic arrays, but in both cases disads really only give a cost break if applied to all the powers contained. ECs start out more expensive, but allow for more precise application of disads to individual powers (encouraging very different powers in the same group). For Hero, Complications and Drawbacks fall under the general category of Character Disads (not the same as power disads). Disadvantages work simlarly to Drawbacks, but the values are larger (5-30 vs 1-5), and characters can usually increase thier base point budget to double what it started off as by piling on disads (and the more disads, the less relevant/more silly they tend to be).For a superhero game where you have the potential to make up just about any sort of character with any sort of abilities, Hero can be daunting even to players who've tried it before. On the other hand, when you get into more specific genres like fantasy, wild west, cyberpunk, space opera, you're at least starting out with a better idea of what abilites are most appropriate to the setting, so character creation can be a little more comfortable (you're not just creating character abilities from scratch).

Also, I've got to say M&M's Drawback/Complication system is a lot more practical than Hero's system for Character Disads. The majority of Hero players I've met (as well as a few GMs), saw Disads as more of formality than a real part of a character creation*, and too often did thier best to just forget about them once character generation was over.

*Using a Disadvantage system similar to Hero, a lot of GURPS players think this way, too.

[EvilJames]

To help with character creation there is a program you can get that is immensley helpful and speeds up the proccess a great deal. Disads can be troublesome but if you just apply reason and common sense to their application they aren't that bad and are useful for good plot hooks (but then I've only played it once and never as a superhero game so I am hardly an expert.

[Desaril]

I'm looking for some advice/suggestions about the SPD attribute. I've been Cha,mpions player since 2nd ed and I like the SPD chart, but I've run into players who find it too complex compared to D20 in which everyone has one action per turn.

What do you think about eliminating SPD (essentially everyone has a SPD 2). Help me think about how that would affect the system. The first thing I noticed is that recoveries come too fast, so I would only recover every minute, not every turn.

Comments, questions, concerns????

[Rob Knotts]

What do you think about eliminating SPD (essentially everyone has a SPD 2). Help me think about how that would affect the system. The first thing I noticed is that recoveries come too fast, so I would only recover every minute, not every turn.

Comments, questions, concerns????I've been considering reducing the number of phases to 4 or 6 to speed-up/simplify combat but still keep some variety (a cap of 3 would work too, but that point you're almost eliminating SPD anyway). Eliminating SPD is certainly possible, but I'm afraid you'd keep running into problems with rules assuming multiple phases each turn (ads/disads, Haymaker). Either way, switching automatic recoveries to once per minute sounds like a good idea, just keep in mind that it'll make players more cautious during combat.