Spell-less Ranger

[Snig]

Hey guys I'd like to play a spell-less ranger, but I can't help but feel the variant WotC released is lacking.

I'm wondering if anyone has homebrewed any battle-master maneuvers for archers? This could make things more interesting?

I also thought it would be nice to give them hunters mark and swift quiver as a class skill rather than a spell. This would probably have to be balanced and tied to wisdom?

Anyone have any ideas?

[Deepbluediver]

I assume this is for 3.5; if it's not please tell me.

What exactly are you looking for in your potential class? The spell-less Ranger (AFAIK, I don't have my books with me atm so I'm using online resources) seems like more of a heavy melee hitter with his beefed up hit-dice and full-strength animal companion. Those aren't features to be underestimated, depending on the scenario- do you have any idea what kinds of classes other people will be playing or what the GM might throw at you?

Also, how open is your GM to alternate rules and/or homebrewing? I'm pretty sure that there are ToB feats that let you learn maneuvers without multiclassing, but I don't know how efficient they are in terms of min-maxing if that's your goal.
There's also the Scout (http://igor.rock-clan.de/Rollenspiel/Charaktere/Character-Options_Pathfinder_V1.0.pdf) class, in case you haven't heard of it. It's very similar to the ranger, but adds a few new abilities and fills a few of those later dead levels if you want just a little more potential and not a whole new system. If your GM approves you could gestalt that with the spell-less variant and end up with a pretty good tank and lightning-bruiser for the party while still being all book-legal. (assuming the other members aren't the power-triumvirate of course)

I'm sure there are homebrewed ToB maneuvers for use with ranged weapons, but I don't recall if I book-marked those threads; I'll have to take a look around.

[Snig]

Very sorry I should have tagged the thread.

This is for 5e

[Deepbluediver]

Very sorry I should have tagged the thread.

This is for 5e
Ah Ok; I can't help you then.

Good luck.

[Snig]

Thanks anyhow, sorry to waste your time.

[DracoKnight]

I'm wondering if anyone has homebrewed any battle-master maneuvers for archers? This could make things more interesting?

I also thought it would be nice to give them hunters mark and swift quiver as a class skill rather than a spell. This would probably have to be balanced and tied to wisdom?

Most of the maneuvers say "weapon attack," not "melee attack." Just FYI.

I would make Hunter's Mark potentially a 2nd level feature...or maybe replace the Poultices with it.

[Snig]

Most of the maneuvers say "weapon attack," not "melee attack." Just FYI.

I would make Hunter's Mark potentially a 2nd level feature...or maybe replace the Poultices with it.

How would you recommend balancing it if it were a feature? It would have to have limited used per rest? Tired to wisdom perhaps?

[DracoKnight]

How would you recommend balancing it if it were a feature? It would have to have limited used per rest? Tired to wisdom perhaps?

I would tie it to wisdom, and since Hunter's Mark lasts for an hour, and can be moved from target to target (after you kill the target you set it on)...I would say short rest is fair...potentially long rest. I'm not the best person out there for determining what rest length to give a feature. :P

[Snig]

I was thinking it would be great if I could create a class feature that had to do with using traps? Like I could set them as a bonus action rather then an action, and perhaps I could use different types of traps?

Any input on this or where it could fit with the spell-less ranger?

[Snig]

Ok so I used the guidelines WotC gave us for creating variant classes. Here is what I came up with for a spell less ranger. Instead of taking the fighters maneuvers, I decided to take half progression in the rogues sneak attack, along with the assassinate ability.

Also instead of call natures allies at 13th level I propose taking the hunter rangers ability volly (i'm creating a variant beastmaster ranger).

Let me know if you think this looks balanced.

SNEAK ATTACK
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly
and exploit a foe's distraction. Once per turn, you can
deal an extra Id6 damage to one creature you hit with
an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The
attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don't need advantage on the attack roll if another
enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy
isn't incapacitated, and you don't have disadvantage on
the attack roll.
The amount of the extra damage increases as you
gain levels in this class and would progress at half the rate of a rogue

For example at 2nd level you would get 1d6, 5th level would give 2d6, 10th level would get 3d6, 15th would give 4d6 and 20th would give 5d6.

POULTICES
At 3rd level, you can create special herbal poultices that have healing power comparable to some potions. You can spend 1 hour gathering herbs and preparing herbal poultices using treated bandages to create a number of such poultices equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). You can carry a number of poultices at one time equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). The poultices you create cannot be applied by anyone but you. After 24 hours, any poultices that you have not used lose their potency.

If you spend 1 minute applying one of your poultices to a wounded humanoid creature, thereby expending its use, that creature regains 1d6 hit points for every two ranger levels you have (rounded up).

ASSASSINATE
Starting at 6th level, you are at your deadliest when you
get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on
attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn
in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against
a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.

NATURAL ANTIVENOM
Starting at 9th level, you have advantage on saving throws against poison and have resistance to poison damage. Additionally, you can use one of your poultices to cure one poison effect on the creature you are applying it to, in addition to restoring hit points.

VOLLEY
Starting at 13th level,
You can use your action to make a ranged
attack against any number of creatures within 10 feet
of a point you can see within your weapon's range. Vou
must have ammunition for each target, as normal, and
you make a separate attack roll for each target.

DEATH STRIKE
Starting at 17th level, you become a master of instant
death. When you attack and hit a creature that is
surprised, it must make a Constitution saving throw
(DC 8 + your Dexterity modifier + your proficiency
bonus). On a failed save, double the damage of your
attack against the creature.

BEASTLY COORDINATION
Beginning at 15th level, when an attacker that you can see hits your beast companion with an attack, you can call out a warning. If your beast companion can hear you, it can use its reaction to halve the attack’s damage against it.

[Amnoriath]

Not all Rangers are stabby like this. I think the way you could balance Hunter's Mark as a feature is make it one enemy kind of like the Paladin of Vengeance's channel divinity power. You then could introduce a Swift Strike feature later on that allows you to make an attack as a bonus action after you moved maybe 20 feet. This gives you consistent higher damage out put but it forces you to place the attack elsewhere and you must keep moving.

[Snig]

Here is a quick look at the table.

1st - Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer
2 - Fighting Style, Sneak attack (half progression)
3 - Beastmaster Archetype, Poultices
4 - ASI
5 - Extra Attack, 2d6 SA
6 - Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer, Assassinate
7 - Beastmaster Feature
8 - ASI, Land's Stride
9 - Natural Antivenom
10 - Natural Explorer improvement, HiPS, 3d6 SA
11 - Beastmaster Feature
12 - ASI
13 - Volley
14 - Favored Enemy Improvement, Vanish
15 - Beastly Coordination, 4d6 SA
16 - ASI
17 - Death Strike
18 - Feral Senses
19 - ASI
2- Foe Slayer, 5d6 SA.

[Snig]

Not all Rangers are stabby like this. I think the way you could balance Hunter's Mark as a feature is make it one enemy kind of like the Paladin of Vengeance's channel divinity power. You then could introduce a Swift Strike feature later on that allows you to make an attack as a bonus action after you moved maybe 20 feet. This gives you consistent higher damage out put but it forces you to place the attack elsewhere and you must keep moving.

I like your idea for swift strike

[Snig]

I just had another thought about the spell less ranger. Do you guys think it would be justifiable to give them ASI the same as a fighter? Right now they the spell-less ranger is like an inferior fighter in most regards?

[foobar1969]

Since this thread already exists, I may as well join in. Here's my notion, modeled on the 3e Scout class, that has some similarities to yours.

Scout Ranger aka Swift Hunter (v0.3): loses spellcasting, gains several roguelike features. requires Hunter archetype.
Asterisks indicate levels with changes.

1: Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer
2* Fighting Style, Sneak Attack 1d6
3* Cunning Action (Dash or Disengage only), Hunter's Prey
4: Ability Score Improvement
5* Extra Attack, Bonus Proficiency
6: Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer
7* Defensive Tactics, Sneak Attack 2d6
8: Ability Score Improvement, Land's Stride
9* Superior Hunter's Defense
10: Natural Explorer, Hide in Plain Sight
11* Blindsense, Multiattack
12: Ability Score Improvement
13* Expertise, Sneak Attack 3d6
14: Favored Enemy, Vanish
15: Superior Hunter's Defense (again)
16: Ability Score Improvement
17* Sneak Attack 5d6
18* Feral Senses, Natural Explorer
19: Ability Score Improvement
20* Favored Enemy, Foe Slayer

BTW, is anyone else annoyed that 5e HiPS really should be called Camouflage?

[Amnoriath]

I just had another thought about the spell less ranger. Do you guys think it would be justifiable to give them ASI the same as a fighter? Right now they the spell-less ranger is like an inferior fighter in most regards?

No, the Fighter has those extra ones because the concept is suppose to be uniquely customizable or generalistic. The Ranger though is quite a specific kind of character and should have feature to reflect that. Additionally if you would nominally you could only fit in features the replace spell levels so if you would two of them would have to go.

[Amnoriath]

Since this thread already exists, I may as well join in. Here's my notion, modeled on the 3e Scout class, that has some similarities to yours.

Scout Ranger aka Swift Hunter: loses spellcasting, gains several roguelike features. requires Hunter archetype.

1: Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer
2* Fighting Style, Sneak Attack 1d6
3* Cunning Action, Hunter's Prey
4* Ability Score Improvement, Bonus Proficiency
5* Extra Attack, Sneak Attack 2d6
6: Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer
7* Defensive Tactics, Uncanny Dodge
8: Ability Score Improvement, Land's Stride
9* Evasion, Sneak Attack 3d6
10: Natural Explorer, Hide in Plain Sight
11* Multiattack, Blindsense
12: Ability Score Improvement
13* Expertise, Sneak Attack 4d6
14: Favored Enemy, Vanish
15* Defensive Tactics (again)
16: Ability Score Improvement
17* Elusive, Sneak Attack 5d6
18: Feral Senses
19: Ability Score Improvement
20* Foe Slayer, Sneak Attack 6d6

I'd appreciate some comments on whether this has the right power level.

BTW, is anyone else annoyed that 5e HiPS really should be called Camouflage?

1. It has no subclass levels. You can't have a 5e base class without subclass levels.
2. You have a couple new features in which you haven't detailed.
3. Overall you made a better Rogue wilderness style which arguably means its overpowered.

[foobar1969]

1. It has no subclass levels. You can't have a 5e base class without subclass levels.
2. You have a couple new features in which you haven't detailed.
3. Overall you made a better Rogue wilderness style which arguably means its overpowered.

It's not a base class, it's a Ranger sub-subclass (spell-less variant of Hunter).
The only new feature is Bonus Proficiency, which I hope is self-explanatory.
Thanks, you're probably right. It can be toned down.

p.s. 3.5e Swift Hunter (Scout-based) was "a better Rogue wilderness style", so I guess I got that part right. :smallbiggrin:

[PoeticDwarf]

Hey guys I'd like to play a spell-less ranger, but I can't help but feel the variant WotC released is lacking.

I'm wondering if anyone has homebrewed any battle-master maneuvers for archers? This could make things more interesting?

I also thought it would be nice to give them hunters mark and swift quiver as a class skill rather than a spell. This would probably have to be balanced and tied to wisdom?

Anyone have any ideas?

Be a fighter, there are enough battle mameuvers for fighter (goading attack).

[Snig]

Since this thread already exists, I may as well join in. Here's my notion, modeled on the 3e Scout class, that has some similarities to yours.

Scout Ranger aka Swift Hunter (v0.2): loses spellcasting, gains several roguelike features. requires Hunter archetype.
Asterisks indicate levels with changes.

1: Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer
2* Fighting Style, Sneak Attack 1d6
3* Cunning Action (Dash or Disengage only), Hunter's Prey
4: Ability Score Improvement
5* Extra Attack, Bonus Proficiency
6: Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer
7* Defensive Tactics, Sneak Attack 2d6
8: Ability Score Improvement, Land's Stride
9* Superior Hunter's Defense
10: Natural Explorer, Hide in Plain Sight
11* Multiattack, Blindsense
12: Ability Score Improvement
13* Expertise, Sneak Attack 3d6
14: Favored Enemy, Vanish
15: Superior Hunter's Defense (again)
16: Ability Score Improvement
17* Sneak Attack 5d6
18: Feral Senses
19: Ability Score Improvement
20* Foe Slayer, Elusive

BTW, is anyone else annoyed that 5e HiPS really should be called Camouflage?

Hey, it's probably pretty obvious, but what exactly is "Bonus Proficiency" at level 4?

I'm adding something similar to this build to my homebrew campaign.

[foobar1969]

One more proficiency, whether skill, tool, language or otherwise. Maybe limit the skill to the options for Ranger. Or not.
Or Expertise feature from Rogue could go there.