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Lolth
2007-04-27, 12:31 PM
Hi, I'm reading the Precocious Apprentice Feat, and have a question:

Does having this one 2nd-Level spell mean that you can cast it more than once, using Intelligence Bonus slots or Specialist slots (if it's from your specialist school), or is it an exception to the usual rules on spellcasting and bonus spells?

Stevenson
2007-04-27, 01:13 PM
Yeah, the second one seems right....

And as much of a fan I am of roleplaying-oriented feats....

This one loses most of its value, well, nearly immediately. At third level, the feat beomes, "something that could have been spell focus."

Ikkitosen
2007-04-27, 03:46 PM
Unless used for cheesily qualifying for things that require you to be able to cast 2nd level spells. Heavily dependent on Dm approval.

Also useful for powering Reserve Feats at 1st level!

Darrin
2007-04-27, 04:06 PM
Hi, I'm reading the Precocious Apprentice Feat, and have a question:

Does having this one 2nd-Level spell mean that you can cast it more than once, using Intelligence Bonus slots or Specialist slots (if it's from your specialist school), or is it an exception to the usual rules on spellcasting and bonus spells?

Assuming your DM lets you use the feat, it's an exception. The 2nd level spell granted by Precocious Apprentice doesn't count as a "slot" until you can actually cast 2nd level spells. And depending on who you ask, it doesn't count for qualifying for prestige classes... supposedly according to the original designer, who said something like "OMG that totally never occurred to me, you can't use it that way". Otherwise you can qualify for Mystic Theurge or a couple dozen other prestige classes at 3rd level or so. But the reasoning behind this is exceedingly shaky:

1) The designer said you can't use it that way. (Counter Argument: then why hasn't official errata been issued?)
2) Most prestige classes say you must be able to cast 2nd level "spells", plural. Prec. App. only allows you to cast one 2nd level spell, singular, per day. (Counter arguments: There are several prestige classes that only get one 2nd level spell slot, and they qualify just fine. An item such as a scroll or pearl of power would allow a caster to cast another 2nd level spell. You can also get a bit wonky with how you define "day", as in any arbitrary 24-hour period, or from one sunrise to next, etc.)
3) It's "cheesy". (Counter argument: Not really. So you can multiclass into Mystic Theurge a bit early... multiclassing out of any pure casting class is almost always a bad idea anyway.)

So, check with your DM, and see how he feals about it. Just be aware a lot of the stricter RAW folks don't allow it.

Lolth
2007-05-05, 12:03 PM
Well, I actually just wanted it for itself, and flavor, not for PrC purposes, so I'm, perfectly content as is.

Maybe I'll change my mind down the road, but as is, very nice.

Thanks!

JaronK
2007-05-05, 09:40 PM
It's not actually a spell slot, so you can't cast it multiple times or anything.

It's quite good for first level characters, especially if Command Undead is the spell you get (yay controlling a zombie hydra at level one!), but yeah, it goes down quickly in effectiveness as you level up. It's good if you're allowed to retrain feats.

JaronK

BardicDuelist
2007-05-05, 11:44 PM
What book is this in?

Dhavaer
2007-05-06, 12:05 AM
What book is this in?

Complete Arcane, I believe.

MeklorIlavator
2007-05-06, 12:28 AM
It's on page 181, near the back of the book.

Hmm... if it could be used to qualify for PrC's, it would make Master Specialist(complete mage) a bit better. Now, with Human, you could get into it at level 2, letting one pack more overly good spellcasting PrC's into the build.

Stephen_E
2007-05-06, 06:26 PM
A few corrections.

Precocious Apprentice does indeed give you a 2nd lev spell slot. The same as any other spell slot, but with additional restriction on it.

You don't get bonus spell slots from your ability score because bonuses spell slots from ability score only occurs if you class level is high neough to cast the spells. Precocious Apprentice may give you a 2nd lev spell slot, but it doesn't give you the class lev to cast 2nd lev spells (instead it gives you special rules for using that particular spell slot).

Pearl of Power: This is a bit trickier because PA doesn't make clear how you get your 2nd lev spell. If one assumes that the chosen 2nd lev spell is written in your spellbook (which does seem the senisble default approach) then you prepare the spell the same as your other spells, and can recall it with Pearl of Power.

Ring of Wizardry: This would definitely work to give you two 2nd lev spells, regardless how you filled the 2nd lev slot. What a character with only 1 or 2 arcane caster levels is doing wandering around with a 40,000go item is another question. :-)

Stephen

CASTLEMIKE
2007-05-10, 10:34 AM
It's your game and you decide whether the PC gets the ability bonus. A prereq for the feat is a primary ability score of 15+ seems to imply it though.

Ramza00
2007-05-10, 10:39 AM
It's on page 181, near the back of the book.

Hmm... if it could be used to qualify for PrC's, it would make Master Specialist(complete mage) a bit better. Now, with Human, you could get into it at level 2, letting one pack more overly good spellcasting PrC's into the build.

Master Specialist requires Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks.

Thus no entering it till 3rd level (instead of 4th like normal) with Precocious Apprentice.