First level for Beholder Mage+Ur-Priest

[Grooke]

While its unlikely I'll ever play this, I'd like to write up a double 9 Beholder Mage + Ur-Priest build. While using Mystic Theurge would allow me to free up some room to build on something else, that isn't really what I'm looking for. I'd rather focus on picking up strong casting PrCs to do more with these two 9s than try to go after a third power system.

As such (and on the premise BM entry at lvl 2 is game), I'm looking for a decent base class to start the build with. I'd only take one level of it, and I'm looking for something that would give me the most benefits for a dedicated spellcaster (while not actually granting spellcasting, since that is covered).

I don't really see anything of great use and am also willing to settle for Improved Initiative from a Fighter level, or additional skill points.

Does anyone have a better suggestion for how to start this? I'm open to any obscure class and/or ACF, and even a good racial HD if it comes down to it.
Keep in mind that I'm open to a class using a sub-system (maneuvers, psionics, soulmeds...), but the features either have to be good with only 1 level, or independent from it to be of any use to me since I won't be progressing it further.

[atemu1234]

Anything that can access a scroll of Shapechange, at some point.

Depends how willing you are to either break WBL or use infinite gold shenaniganderings.

[bean illus]

(while not actually granting spellcasting, since that is covered).

I don't really see anything of great use and am also willing to settle for Improved Initiative from a Fighter level, or additional skill points..

Well you could, of course have both Improved Initiative AND TONS OF SKILL POINTS. A beholder mage is a base class right? so no prereqs? and has an Int dependency?

So if you took Martial Rogue, you could use your high Int to get 48 skill points AND Improved Initiative.

Just a thought..

[Rebel7284]

What PrCs DO you want to take if Mystic Theurge is off the table? That first level may be important for qualifications. :)

Some ideas:
- There is a monk variant in dragon magazine that can take fighter feats. Monks don't need to fulfill the prerequisites for their bonus feats, therefore you can get Weapon Supremacy at level 1.
- Dread Necromancer: so you can rebuke undead without needing that second level of Ur Priest.
- Cloisted Cleric: if it is ruled that you keep your domain powers.
- Conjurer: Abrupt Jaunt is amazing at all levels.
- Erudite: psicrystals are useful, and you get another bonus feat too.
- Savage Bard: Great skills and possibility to easily go triple 9s if you want with a Sublime Chord dip.
-TOB class: plenty of great first level maneuvers that remain useful, and as your initiator level keeps increasing, you can always pick up items that give access to higher level maneuvers.

[Grooke]

Thank you all for the replies, lots of good suggestions.


Anything that can access a scroll of Shapechange, at some point.

Depends how willing you are to either break WBL or use infinite gold shenaniganderings.

Like I said, I'm assuming BM entry at level 2 is possible.


Well you could, of course have both Improved Initiative AND TONS OF SKILL POINTS. A beholder mage is a base class right? so no prereqs? and has an Int dependency?

So if you took Martial Rogue, you could use your high Int to get 48 skill points AND Improved Initiative.

Just a thought..

Good combo of both things I was looking into, and definitely something I'll keep in mind.


What PrCs DO you want to take if Mystic Theurge is off the table? That first level may be important for qualifications. :)

I'm thinking a Dweomerkeeper/Incantatrix combo, nothing that hard prereq-wise.



- There is a monk variant in dragon magazine that can take fighter feats. Monks don't need to fulfill the prerequisites for their bonus feats, therefore you can get Weapon Supremacy at level 1.

I doubt I'll be using a weapon that much, but it does make me want to go through the feat list to see if something else catches my eye. Also, more skills than fighter is yummy




- Dread Necromancer: so you can rebuke undead without needing that second level of Ur Priest.
- Cloisted Cleric: if it is ruled that you keep your domain powers.
Isn't Dread Necro strictly inferior? Cleric also nets rebuke. In any case, three domain powers & good skills is really good, definitely worth looking into.




- Conjurer: Abrupt Jaunt is amazing at all levels.
Also Solid, and Scribe Scroll helps for Dweomerkeeper. Like C. Cleric, kinda overlooked these because of replaced spellcasting, but it was obviously a mistake.




- Erudite: psicrystals are useful, and you get another bonus feat too.
I'm not very familiar with psionics so this would require more effort, but I'll look into it.



- Savage Bard: Great skills and possibility to easily go triple 9s if you want with a Sublime Chord dip.

For extra skills I prefer the Martial Rogue/C. Cleric options for the other benefits. Like I said, I'm not really looking to get another power source.



-TOB class: plenty of great first level maneuvers that remain useful, and as your initiator level keeps increasing, you can always pick up items that give access to higher level maneuvers.
Off the top of my head I have a hard time thinking of something I'd use with greater benefit than other options outlined here, but the possibility of higher-level maneuvers through feats didn't occur to me.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Factotum? You need good Int for beholder mage, so you should get some nice mileage out of +Int to two attacks, saves, or damage rolls (did someone say enervation?) per encounter as a non-action. Plus, dem skills.

[Segev]

My go-to build for a Beholder Mage is an Elan Psion using Metamorphic Transfer and paying a mage to PAO him into the beholder by 5th level. Then, rather than going for ur priest, go with Cerebromancer and run your psionics and magic both to 9. It's notworthy because the psion action to manifest can be done in the same round as the beholder mage action to cast all 10 levels of spells. This is not true of the ur priest's conventional spellcasting, unless you have Silent Spell and use it every time.

[atemu1234]

Remember to take Academic Priest.

[Endarire]

What about EBUMPS (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9971.0)?