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View Full Version : Pathfinder Oracle + Spirit Guide + Arcane Enlightenment



MukkTB
2015-06-24, 04:56 PM
Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle) + Spirit Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/spirit-guide) + Arcane Enlightenment (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/spirits/lore)
I have been chewing over this combo for a while. By RAW it does not work simply. Spells you can prepare are not spells known. However it does seem to add these spells to the class spell list as per some FAQs. It seems reasonable that if you used this revelation you could:
-Learn the spells using your normal allotment of spells known. (You can only cast these spells while you have arcane enlightenment selected.)
-Use a spell trigger item that required having the spell on your list.

I am trying to stay within the RAW, and only going to RAI if RAW has nothing to say on the matter. I am looking for feedback on this interpretation.

Jack_Simth
2015-06-24, 05:13 PM
Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle) + Spirit Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/spirit-guide) + Arcane Enlightenment (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/spirits/lore)
I have been chewing over this combo for a while. By RAW it does not work simply. Spells you can prepare are not spells known. However it does seem to add these spells to the class spell list as per some FAQs. It seems reasonable that if you used this revelation you could:
-Learn the spells using your normal allotment of spells known. (You can only cast these spells while you have arcane enlightenment selected.)
-Use a spell trigger item that required having the spell on your list.

I am trying to stay within the RAW, and only going to RAI if RAW has nothing to say on the matter. I am looking for feedback on this interpretation.
Short answer is that Paizo didn't consider all possible interactions when writing the ACF's, so your mileage may vary, ask your DM.

One interpretation is that you can't do much of note with the selected spells, other than spell trigger/completion items (as the Oracle can't prepare spells) as you noted, unless the Oracle has found a way to prepare Oracle spells in advance to avoid metamagic time increases.

One interpretation is that you can prepare them in some of your otherwise-spontaneous Oracle spell slots ("She uses her oracle level as her shaman level and her Charisma score instead of Wisdom for the purpose of determining its effects." - so "The shaman can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman spells she can prepare" becomes ''The shaman oracle can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman oracle spells she can prepare", and thus, she can now prepare spells, or at least, those spells)

One interpretation is that they're added to her list of spells known for the day as "At 4th level, she adds the bonded spirit's spirit magic spells to her oracle spells known for that day" and Arcane Enlightenment spells could be considered spirit magic spells from some perspectives.

None of those three listed interpretations are completely wrong. None of the them are completely right. It's simply not covered well by Paizo, and is a fuzzy section of the rules. It's rather far from the only one.

Psyren
2015-06-24, 05:34 PM
I would be harsh and argue that it does nothing. Oracles don't have a list of spells that they can prepare because they are spontaneous casters. At best it would give you access to spell trigger/completion as noted in your second bullet.

MukkTB
2015-06-25, 02:55 AM
This reminds me of programming languages and variables. Some languages, like C++, require you to initialize the variable. A few languages such as python allow you to create the variable when you define it. An oracle does not have a list of spells it can prepare. In C++ logi adding to the list of spells you can prepare when you don't have that kind of list would return an error. In Python logic it would automatically create such a list.

But my argument for being able to expend spells known on these spells is on a different tack. You cannot cast a spell if you gain the spell as a spell known when it is not on your class spell list. Spells that are not normally on your list that are added to your spells known by a class feature are also added to your list. Since Spirit Guide is a class feature it would theoretically add the spells to the list at the same time it allowed them to be prepared. This would mean the spells are definitely on the list, and options to be chosen by regularly gained amount of spells known.