Best Prestige Class for a Bard/Oracle?

[Palanan]

We've just leveled in our Runelords campaign, and my mystic dwarf is now a Bard 1/Oracle 7.

The bard level was necessary for my concept, but the spellcasting is a little dinky, and I end up never using my bardic music. Are there any prestige classes which could advance my bard spellcasting, and offer something else besides what I'd get at Bard 2?

[Psyren]

Mystic Theurge would technically advance them both but it would be a terrible idea. I don't know of any that advance bardic abilities and spellcasting unless you port from 3.5.


The bard level was necessary for my concept,

Can you elaborate on this? If it was just something like "I wanted to play an instrument," you don't need a bard level for that.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
Mystic Theurge would technically advance them both but it would be a terrible idea.

I'm less allergic to Mystic Theurge than most folks in the Playground, and I've happily played them before, but it's certainly not feasible for my current build.


Originally Posted by Psyren
I don't know of any that advance bardic abilities and spellcasting unless you port from 3.5.

Yeah, I had a feeling that would be the case. And no 3.5 content in this game.

Are there any PrCs which would be generally useful for a Bard/Oracle?

[Vhaidara]

I can't check now, but can you abuse evangelist for this? Progress oracle casting and bard class features?

[Hazrond]

The bard level was necessary for my concept, but the spellcasting is a little dinky, and I end up never using my bardic music.

Might I ask why you took a level of bard instead of using VMC Bard? Just curious :smallsmile:

[daryen]

Might I ask why you took a level of bard instead of using VMC Bard? Just curious :smallsmile:

Just guessing, but probably because VMC Bard didn't exist when he build the character?

Also, if he didn't want the bardic performances, then it was some other aspect of Bard he needed. To me, the real question is why he didn't just use the Archaeologist archetype. That replaces performances (which he won't use) with Luck, which is always useful. Even if it isn't part of the character concept, it is always cool to get the occasional +1 to a die roll.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Keledrath
I can't check now, but can you abuse evangelist for this? Progress oracle casting and bard class features?

Probably not, and my DM and I are both not fond of abusing things.

I've had Evangelist recommended before, but it requires some feat tax to enter, and the first level is essentially a dead level.


Originally Posted by Hazrond
Might I ask why you took a level of bard instead of using VMC Bard?


Originally Posted by Daryen
Just guessing, but probably because VMC Bard didn't exist when he build the character?

Ding! :smalltongue:

[(Un)Inspired]

I think you are probably going to be best served by simply taking your medicine. Keeping going with oracle levels and to to fogey that you first level is basically a dead one.

With revelations and mystery spells the oracle offers so much good stuff to augment it spontaneous casting. There not really much that justifies giving it up.

[Psyren]

I think you'd be better off (at least from an elegance standpoint) being a Bard with an Oracle dip than the other way around. At least that way your curse would scale with your bard levels instead of that 1 level hanging off and doing nothing like that. Of course, advancing Oracle instead is more powerful.

Anyway, to answer your question - no, PF is not generally designed around PrCs (archetypes and VMC are the standard means of customization.) There are no PrCs that I know of that will do the specific thing you ask, and Evangelist chicanery is probably the closest you can get.

[Vhaidara]

Well, when I said abuse, I meant use. Evangelist is fundamentally kind of abusive. This would be a tamer method for it.

[Hrugner]

It would help to know exactly what it is you want out of the Bard, and why you originally took it.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired
With revelations and mystery spells the oracle offers so much good stuff to augment it spontaneous casting. There not really much that justifies giving it up.


Originally Posted by Psyren
Of course, advancing Oracle instead is more powerful.

I've definitely been enjoying the oracle class, and it does seem that more oracle levels are probably the best option here.


Originally Posted by Psyren
I think you'd be better off (at least from an elegance standpoint) being a Bard with an Oracle dip than the other way around.

Speaking from experience, I can't really argue with this. :smalltongue:

I'm not a huge fan of the bard in either 3.5 or Pathfinder, but it seems clear that in Pathfinder at least, the best bard is a pure bard with no multiclassing. My bard level helps me do what I wanted with this character, but in terms of bardiness, a one-level dip isn't great.

Now, if there were a feat like Shaping Focus for bardic music, that would be worth considering. Not sure if something like that exists in Pathfinder, though.

[Psyren]

Can you elaborate on this? If it was just something like "I wanted to play an instrument," you don't need a bard level for that.


It would help to know exactly what it is you want out of the Bard, and why you originally took it.

I'm not sure if you were avoiding these intentionally but this would be a big help to know.

[Spore]

Write your own (with DM approval of course?). Prestige classes were originally just examples given to players and DMs in order to redo the old multiclassing system from AD&D if I recall correctly.

And a class advancing bardic music and oracle spells with d8, a good will save and 3/4 BAB seems entirely balanced and feasible for your concept. After all you trade weakened bardic music for more and more powerful revelations and stagger your curse progression.


I'm not sure if you were avoiding these intentionally but this would be a big help to know.

I think he wants to emulate the spontaneous version of the Evangelist cleric.

I have thought about that on my oracle as well. The great charisma score and 4+Int skill points make you a great face and lore/knowledge guy which are incidentally two big points on the bard list. Bardic knowledge combined with Breadth of Experience and dipping into every knowledge skill you get +6 on all previously not marked knowledge skills.

You get Perception, Stealth, UMD and all social skills as class skills and you get an arcane spell list which while being relatively weak throws Charm Person and Silent Image at your disposal at 1st level. The power dampener in terms of spell levels is there but the utility and flexibility is insane.

[Othniel]

Well, when I said abuse, I meant use. Evangelist is fundamentally kind of abusive. This would be a tamer method for it.

Holy cow, I never realized what you could do with that PrC before. Now the wheels are turning in my head.

[grarrrg]

The bard level was necessary for my concept, but the spellcasting is a little dinky, and I end up never using my bardic music. Are there any prestige classes which could advance my bard spellcasting, and offer something else besides what I'd get at Bard 2?

You're pretty much out of luck.
At this point ditching Oracle is not a good option, and the only way to keep any Oracle stuff AND advance Bard-Spells would be Mystic Theurge.

If you _must_ boost the Bard casting, there are a ton of general "+arcane" or "+any-casting" PrC's, but with 7 levels of Oracle already, I'd just chalk it up as a lost cause.

As for "specifically Bard stuff", you'd really only get Performance based stuff, which you said you don't use anyway.
Battle Herald (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/battle-herald) kinda uses Performance, but you'd need a level of Cavalier, and it doesn't advance any casting.
Pathfinder Chronicler stacks for Performance, but it's basically "less combat Rogue" with no casting.


Holy cow, I never realized what you could do with that PrC before. Now the wheels are turning in my head.

Yeah, as long as you are OK with the 1 lost level that PrC can get a little crazy.
It's also currently the _ONLY_ PrC that plays nice with Summoner. Heck, even the Alchemist got 2 PrC's that advance Extracts/Discoveries (even though one of them is garbage).

[Othniel]

Yeah, as long as you are OK with the 1 lost level that PrC can get a little crazy.
It's also currently the _ONLY_ PrC that plays nice with Summoner. Heck, even the Alchemist got 2 PrC's that advance Extracts/Discoveries (even though one of them is garbage).

I can see myself picking up the Evangelist for fun and flavor. I won't go out of my way to optimize, and my primary concern when choosing a class (whether base or prestige) is "Is this something I'm going to enjoy for multiple levels?" I think I'd like to combine it with a Warpriest of Sarenrae, possibly with a dex build using the Dervish Dance feat. Dervish Dancer Bard would probably go well too.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Sporeegg
The great charisma score and 4+Int skill points make you a great face and lore/knowledge guy which are incidentally two big points on the bard list. Bardic knowledge combined with Breadth of Experience and dipping into every knowledge skill you get +6 on all previously not marked knowledge skills.

This was pretty much my plan, and Breadth of Experience was one of my early feats. I wanted my character to be a loremaster and sage, and the bard level worked well for that, in particular with all Knowledges as class skills. Adding Perception as a class skill was also extremely helpful.