Spell-less Ranger taking both archetypes?

[Snig]

I'm trying to think of some good alternatives for the spell less ranger. in this article https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes they say you can replace spell casting with a class feature such as the fighters combat superiority.

What are some other ideas that would be a fair trade if I were building a modified ranger? Sneak attack? an extra archetype? I'd need something to make up for the lost damage and utility of spells like Hunter's Mark, Lightning Arrow, Hail of thorns, Conjure Volley, Swift Quiver, ect.

[djreynolds]

I'm trying to think of some good alternatives for the spell less ranger. in this article https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes they say you can replace spell casting with a class feature such as the fighters combat superiority.

What are some other ideas that would be a fair trade if I were building a modified ranger? Sneak attack? an extra archetype? I'd need something to make up for the lost damage and utility of spells like Hunter's Mark, Lightning Arrow, Hail of thorns, Conjure Volley, Swift Quiver, ect.

I read the article, very cool. I have an idea you might find useful, but remember I'm a newbie. Pretend there was no ranger class in this game. With multiclassing, how would create a character out of the other classes that resembled a ranger without spells.

I would begin as a barbarian. They know the natural world. They know how to survive on their home terrain. They can feed themselves and family.

Then rogue. Now you must hunt for the tribe. You must bring down big game or kill of the wolf pack. Rangers would rely on stealth. A hunter knows how to track and wound his quarry. Sneak attack would resemble the rangers knowledge of how to stalk prey and were its most vulnerable. Expertise from years of stalking and trapping prey.

Next a ranger trains to bring down big foes. He's using weapons designed to pierce the toughest hide and defend against brutal claws and teeth. Martial weapons, multiple fighting styles that quickly subdue from range and close in. Wound with the bow and then a powerful axe or spear thrust versus a wounded enemy.

Then a ranger must defend his tribe from others. It angers him that anyone would wish to harm his people. Barbarian again. Rage against his enemy.

Perhaps the shaman taught him what to use to care for the wounded. Healers feat and medicine skill.

That resembles a ranger. Good outdoor skills, expertise in stalking prey stealthily, climbing trees to wait, expertise in nature and survival. Archery and great weapon feat and multiple attacks. Masters of bow and spear and knife and axe. Great weapon master and sharpshooter. Sneak attack with his bow, to his favored enemies or predators. Rage against favored enemies or dangerous predators. Real world healing with medicine and healers feat, skilled feat.

Now you can forfeit spells for a limited sneak attack or rage versus favored enemies or types of predators. You gain an extra fighting styles, archery and great weapon. Expertise like the rogue but in stealth, perception, medicine, nature, or survival. And maybe a 3rd attack versus those foes at level 15. Uncanny dodge or evasion but in the terrains you know.

[Snig]

What if I traded another Ranger feature for an animal companion? Like say Favored Enemy? Or Primal Awareness? Something other then the hunter archetype.

Is this wishing for too much? Or could it work without being unbalanced?

Perhaps a lesser version of animal companion? I'll primarily be using it as a mount for my small character.

Or even trade Favored enemy for the spell like ability Find Steed?

[Gurka]

Perhaps a lesser version of animal companion? I'll primarily be using it as a mount for my small character.

Not sure you CAN get much 'lesser" than the present version of animal companion.

That said, I break non-archetype class features up into two categories: Primary and Secondary. The primary features both define the class' roll, and offer it's biggest mechanical advantage. Archetype features though, are usually of secondary status.

Sneak attack: Primary

Wild Shape: Primary

3rd/4th attacks: Primary

Expertise: Secondary

Fast movement: Secondary (except maybe for the monk)

Half-casting: Secondary (thought it could really be considered primary for some)

So find an analog ability to trade for. Don't try and trade a secondary ability for a primary one, basically.

[Snig]

Not sure you CAN get much 'lesser" than the present version of animal companion.

That said, I break non-archetype class features up into two categories: Primary and Secondary. The primary features both define the class' roll, and offer it's biggest mechanical advantage. Archetype features though, are usually of secondary status.

Sneak attack: Primary

Wild Shape: Primary

3rd/4th attacks: Primary

Expertise: Secondary

Fast movement: Secondary (except maybe for the monk)

Half-casting: Secondary (thought it could really be considered primary for some)

So find an analog ability to trade for. Don't try and trade a secondary ability for a primary one, basically.

Fair enough. Can you suggest an ability that a Hunter Ranger could give up to gain an animal companion?

Keep in mind i'm the Spell-less version posted in Unearthed Arcana.

Edit: Also if I only take the level 3 feature of Beastmaster, just granting me an animal companion, it would be much less powerful. It wouldn't get bestial fury, exceptional training, share spells.

[Giant2005]

Just sacrifice the Hunter's level 3 ability for a non-scaling companion. Non-scaling as in you don't add your proficiency to its to-hit, AC and damage. Those are perks of actual Beastmasters.
Then again, you are probably better off just buying a companion.

[Snig]

Just sacrifice the Hunter's level 3 ability for a non-scaling companion. Non-scaling as in you don't add your proficiency to its to-hit, AC and damage. Those are perks of actual Beastmasters.
Then again, you are probably better off just buying a companion.

Not sure how your justifying replacing horde breaker or colossus slayer for a non scaling animal? If i did do this, it'd certainly make sense to scale because thats what the level three BM feature grants you.

RANGER'S COMPANION
At 3rd levee, you gain a beast companion that
accompanies you on your adventures and is trained to
fight alongside you. Choose a beast that is no larger than
Medium and that has a challenge rating of 1/4 or lower
(appendix O presets statistics for the hawk, mastiff,
and panther as examples). Add your proficiency bonus
to the beast's AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, as weIl
as to any saving throws and skills it is proficient in. Its
hit point maximum equals its normal maximum or four
times your ranger level, whichever is higher.
The beast obeys your commands as best as it can It
takes its turn on your initiative, though it doesn't take an
action unless you command it to. On your turn, you can
verbally command the beast where to move (no action
required by you). You can use your action to verbally
command it to take the Attack, Dash, Disengage, Dodge,
or Help action. Once you have the Extra Attack feature,
you can make one weapon attack yourself when you
command the beast to take the Attack action.
While traveling through your favored terrain with only
the beast, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
lf the beast dies, you can obtain another one by
spending 8 hours magically bonding with another beast
that isn't hostile to you, either the same type of beast as
before or a different one.

EXCEPTIONAL TRAINING
Beginning at 7th level, on any of your turns when
your beast companion doesn't attack, you can use a
bonus action to command the beast to take the Dash,
Disengage, Dodge, or Help action on its turn

BESTIAL FURY
Starting at 11th level, your beast companion can
make two attacks when you command it to use the
Attack action.

SHARE SPELLS
Beginning at 15th level, when you cast a spell targeting
yourself, you can also affect your beast companion with
the spell if the beast is within 30 feet of YOU.

[Giant2005]

Not sure how your justifying replacing horde breaker or colossus slayer for a non scaling animal? If i did do this, it'd certainly make sense to scale because thats what the level three BM feature grants you.

Because that scaling issue is the bulk of the subclass and what makes the entire thing relevant.
Exchanging 1 ability for that is like a Champion Fighter switching out his level 3 ability (Critting on a 19) for a fully scaling Eldritch Knight's spellcasting. Obviously that change would render the Eldritch Knight obsolete and the same story goes for the Beastmaster.

[Snig]

Because that scaling issue is the bulk of the subclass and what makes the entire thing relevant.
Exchanging 1 ability for that is like a Champion Fighter switching out his level 3 ability (Critting on a 19) for a fully scaling Eldritch Knight's spellcasting. Obviously that change would render the Eldritch Knight obsolete and the same story goes for the Beastmaster.

You could say the same for almost any level 3 archetype. Without colossus slayer or horde breaker, a hunter isn't much of a hunter. What would an assassin be without assassinate? I see the two features as a fairly even swap.

Edit: in your example of the eldritch knight. If you only took their level three feature, all you'd get is 2 first level spells, your not leveling as an ek so your wouldn't get their progression. Whereas the beastmaster gets a scaling animal companion at level 3.