Looking for Factotum/Chameleon Advice

[Nightly]

You can ignore this if you don't care:
I'm starting up a game in a homebrewed world based around runes that create shields against demons that come out at night.
The general idea is that were a group of demon hunters that can group our runes into one giant ring of protection. Magic/Arrows from the inside out can have weird effects (magnify, explode, split, redirect, ricochet, etc.) so there will be a lot of fighting outside and bailing back in when it gets bad. It's supposed to be dnd hardmode and the rest of the party for the most part doesn't know how to optimize or play well. So it will mostly be me and another PC. I know they're not exactly the best at anything but being able to carry the party where they're lacking would be nice. Mostly looking to play melee with arcane/divine buffs.


On to the meat:
I've been thinking Human Factotum 8/Chameleon 10/Swordsage 2
14 Str
14 Dex
15 Con
18 Int
15 Wis
15 Cha

1: Able Learner
H: Font of Inspiration
3: EWP Gnome Quick Razor
6: Font of Insp
9: Know Devotion or Font of Insp
12: Imperious Command or Font of Insp
15: ??? or Font of Inspiration
18: Probably never make it this far but same as 15

I plan on making use of Iaijutsu Focus and Gnome quick razor/and making them flat footed (Marble, Grease, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Blurstrike, etc) and self buffing .


What I need help on is what levels for each class. I was thinking
3 Factotum/2 Swordsage/2 Chameleon/5 Factotum/8 Chameleon

[Venger]

welcome!

as always, the handbooks will do a good job of laying out the basics, talking about roles, and providing a couple sample builds (some with swordsage even) to help give you an idea of what might be good for your guy.
chameleon handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=135.0) and factotum handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2720.0)

I've greatly enjoyed factotum5/chameleon10/xx5, but a more popular breakpoint from factotum, as both handbooks will say, is 8 so you get cunning surge.

[bekeleven]

That said, my recommendation is that if you want high power, take as many levels in chameleon as you can as quickly as you can. (Unless you just want campaign-breaking power in which case you can get 9th level chameleon casting at, I think Chameleon 1?)

[ZamielVanWeber]

That said, my recommendation is that if you want high power, take as many levels in chameleon as you can as quickly as you can. (Unless you just want campaign-breaking power in which case you can get 9th level chameleon casting at, I think Chameleon 1?)

IIRC you need the floating feat, so that makes it Chameleon 2.

[bekeleven]

IIRC you need the floating feat, so that makes it Chameleon 2.

Oh, right.

I made this trick, I really aught to remember how it works.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Oh, right.

I made this trick, I really aught to remember how it works.

I forgot how it worked, but I remember it involves the floating feat. I wanna say Heighten, Versatile Spellcaster, and Extra Spell?

[Nightly]

Thanks for the inputs, but I should have been more clear.
I've already gone through the handbooks and am planning on 8 Factotum/10 Chameleon/2 Swordsage, I'm just curious on your input on what to take at each level. For example, I was thinking:
3 Factotum (Brains over Brawn BB)/2 Swordsage (Sapphire Nightmare Blade)/2 Chameleon (Floating Feat BB)/Factotum 4-8/Chameleon 3-10

I don't know what's the best level to take swordsage, not too familiar with initiator levels and other stances/maneuvers that I should take.

Or should I finish Chameleon after the swordsage dip and go 3 Fact/2 SS/10 Chameleon/5 Fact

[bekeleven]

I forgot how it worked, but I remember it involves the floating feat. I wanna say Heighten, Versatile Spellcaster, and Extra Spell?

Use a method of your choice to gain spells @ level+2. Since Chameleons can't cast spontaneously, if you want to use this method with chameleon casting*, use Heighten Spell + Earth Spell + Sanctum Spell. Then a Heightened Sanctum detect magic sits in a 1st level slot and counts as a 3rd level spell.

Floating Feat extra spell to grant a 2nd level slot. You can now cast 4th level spells. Next day, swap floating feat (Extra Spell) to Floating Feat (Extra Spell) and grab a 3rd level slot. You can now cast 5th level spells.

Repeat ad infinitum. It shouldn't work, but works due to the fact that chameleon's caveats on qualification don't specify that specific method of spell use.

*Technically, you can use this method as a Sorc 5/Cham 2 to get arbitrary-level sorc casting then transfer the slot to chameleon the next day. It's arguably sketchier.

Once again, back on topic, More chameleon > less chameleon if you want power. Also, your initiator level is (levels in initiator classes) + (levels in non-initiator classes)/2. This means that the longer you wait on a swordsage dip, the more you'll get from it in absolute terms - but it might be a bit underwhelming if you wait too long, as not all maneuvers scale the best. What do you want to be able to do? This build will be able to do basically anything no matter how you cut it, but your specialty will change based on your class order, your feats and (more than many builds) your items.

A Chameleon's at its most powerful as a mystic theurge with Arcane // Divine Casting focus. But if you want to mix it up in melee, I'd consider something like Factotum 6/Chameleon 2/Swordsage 1 (3rd level maneuvers)/Factotum +2/Swordsage +1 (4th level maneuvers)/Chameleon +8. This build has a solid maneuver pool, especially since you wouldn't be able to qualify for most of the higher-level maneuvers due to them requiring other maneuvers. It gets most of its melee tricks early, specifically cham's floating feat and swordsage maneuvers, then grab cunning surge a bit late and pumps up its versatility through further chameleing.

Feats to look into:

Academic Priest (Legend of the Twins) - only the first dragonlance book, DLCS, has the wizards seal of approval. If allowed, this feat lets you use Int for bonus spells on a divine casting class of your choice. Thanks to the same loophole that allows for the above use, you can use this on chameleon.

Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Dragon 319) - Int to HP, instead of Con. If a DM allows this, you're well on your way to being single-ability dependent.

Kung-Fu Genius (Dragon Compendium) - Int for monk abilities. Swordsage gets unarmored AC as a monk, should transfer. If your DM rules that Swordsage AC bonus is different from Monk AC bonus, then take this feat anyway, use a monk's belt, and get int and wis to AC. Carmendine Monk is a similar feat, but I seem to recall it being harder to qualify for. I think it needs monk levels.

Keen Intellect (Unapproachable East) - Int replaces Wisdom on Will Saves, Spot, Survival, Sense Motive, and Heal. If you don't mind not hearing stuff, you no longer need wisdom.

Hope that all helps!

[Nightly]

What do you want to be able to do? This build will be able to do basically anything no matter how you cut it, but your specialty will change based on your class order, your feats and (more than many builds) your items.

Thanks for the additional reply.

I'm looking to build a balanced character to to fill the roles that my party can't (when needed).

Mostly I'm planning on using EWP Gnome quick razor, Iuijutsu focus, and Sapphire Nightmare for all my melee needs. Using magic to buff and for BFC. Not looking to make a blaster or anything like that.

My concern is that my group almost never reaches endgame, the highest char I've ever actually played in five games is level 8. Sooo, being able to do that earlier is better. I think I'm going to stick to 3 Fact/2 SS/2 Cham so I can have the versatility that I need. I think following that, I'll finish Chameleon to increase my spell casting capabilities. Ability Boon/Double Aptitude seems better than cunning surge



And all the little tricks to pull off 7/8/9 lvl spells seem too cheesy and I doubt this char would even make it that far.

[Venger]

I forgot how it worked, but I remember it involves the floating feat. I wanna say Heighten, Versatile Spellcaster, and Extra Spell?

It involves planar from I think catalogs of enlightenment. Either way is in the chameleon handbook I linked earlier

[bekeleven]

It involves planar from I think catalogs of enlightenment. Either way is in the chameleon handbook I linked earlier

That's a slower and rather less efficient method, but I did use it in builds before I stumbled upon the bootstrapping approach.