How to play a bad guy.

[snowman87]

Our DM was quite excited about a group of evil characters. It was very thrilling at first, not restricted by morals and codes of honor, etc., but now the campaign doesn't really have much of a point. Our DM isn't leading us towards any greater goal or BBEG or anything, really. We do stuff and he reacts to it, making the world change according to our actions. But there isn't any drive to our characters. They don't have a purpose except to be evil. Our DM has some super-conspiracy about artifacts from another continent and the people who want them (with lots of money and political influence) but we've escaped them and since we're evil there is no motivation to go back and fight them. Who cares if there is an evil organization? We're looking after ourselves. That's my problem right now. Heroes have a drive to right wrongs. What do villains do, realistically? We're just going around stealing stuff or trying to take over places but there is no greater goal. How does a group of evil characters find greater purpose?

[PoeticDwarf]

Our DM was quite excited about a group of evil characters. It was very thrilling at first, not restricted by morals and codes of honor, etc., but now the campaign doesn't really have much of a point. Our DM isn't leading us towards any greater goal or BBEG or anything, really. We do stuff and he reacts to it, making the world change according to our actions. But there isn't any drive to our characters. They don't have a purpose except to be evil. Our DM has some super-conspiracy about artifacts from another continent and the people who want them (with lots of money and political influence) but we've escaped them and since we're evil there is no motivation to go back and fight them. Who cares if there is an evil organization? We're looking after ourselves. That's my problem right now. Heroes have a drive to right wrongs. What do villains do, realistically? We're just going around stealing stuff or trying to take over places but there is no greater goal. How does a group of evil characters find greater purpose?

My favourite alingment is CG or NG. But when I was just a beginning 4e and 5e player I was stupid evil, or stupid chaotic dwarfs. Often did this first.
-begin in a town, walk into a house, kill the owner, you now have a house
-find a place in the town with loot, loot it, leave the town
-assassinate people (for fun AND for money)

[KorvinStarmast]

Our DM was quite excited about a group of evil characters. It was very thrilling at first, not restricted by morals and codes of honor, etc., but now the campaign doesn't really have much of a point. Our DM isn't leading us towards any greater goal or BBEG or anything, really. We do stuff and he reacts to it, making the world change according to our actions. But there isn't any drive to our characters. They don't have a purpose except to be evil. Our DM has some super-conspiracy about artifacts from another continent and the people who want them (with lots of money and political influence) but we've escaped them and since we're evil there is no motivation to go back and fight them. Who cares if there is an evil organization? We're looking after ourselves. That's my problem right now. Heroes have a drive to right wrongs. What do villains do, realistically? We're just going around stealing stuff or trying to take over places but there is no greater goal. How does a group of evil characters find greater purpose? Has it occurred to you, the group of players, to get together and decide as a group what in-game goal or aim you want to achieve?
Do you want to take over a block of the city and make money on vice? Do you want to run a local version of Las Vegas? Do you want to become the Dread Pirates Roberts?

If not, if you have no objective, then your game experience has become an illustration of the limitations of chaotic evil.

As you can see, it has its long term shortcomings regardless of the fun along the way as murder hobos. This might be why chaotic evil sorts never took over the world.

Too chaotic. :smallbiggrin: Ya gotta be at least somewhat organized (trend is lawful) to take over and run things.

[Glarx]

I find there are several ways to motivate a group of evil individuals.

First of all, let's talk about the BBEG Cabal that's got some fetish for artifacts. That should concern you. Not because of Morality or anything like that, but because of: 1) greed [you can undoubtedly find someone interested in paying you to stop all that from happening]; 2) pride [you're evil. They're evil. Two evils enter, one evil leaves]; 3) self-preservation [you're living on this plane of existence too, bub. It's in your best interest to make sure it doesn't go to ****]; 4) curiosity ; or 5) wanting to usurp it [it's a good plan, but it'd be better if [I]I were in charge of it]. You got away from them, but they're a vast and connected group. What're the chances they'll just live and let live? Reverse the situation: if you were in a position of great power, and you knew there were competitors out there who'd evaded you once, would you just let them go about their lives and ignore them? Or would you crush their bones and watch them squirm away while listening to the lamentations of their women!? I know I go for the latter, especially if I'm playing an Evil character.

Second of all, let's examine greater purpose. Why is your character evil? Is it because doing mean things gets them off, or is it because they see evil as the most pragmatic method of surviving in the world, or is it because they have a tragic backstory, or is it because...? Knowing what turned your character to the proverbial (or, in certain systems, literal) Dark Side is important. I tend to have characters who crave domination over the world and over life itself. Every adventure serves that ultimate goal. A fear of death, a desire to "show them all," the pain of losing a loved one in a way modern medical magic can't repair? All of those can serve as a foundation for why your character is evil, and that can provide you with an overarching goal.

Just because you're evil doesn't mean you can't inadvertently save the world. It also doesn't mean you have no one in your life that you care for. Evil isn't necessarily Monstrous. That's my take, anyways. I'm interested to hear more about your character and the party they're in. That'll help me provide better advice in the future. :smallsmile:

[Lurkmoar]

What does your character want? Power, fame, glory or fawning men and/or woman at their feet? Does your character look around and think "Dang, this kingdom is terribly managed. I can run it better in my sleep. I should be running this place..." or "Dang, this kingdom is great! It should be mine!"

Perhaps your character sees that something (or everything) in existence is annoyance, and wishes for it to stop. The annoyance could be something as simple as Dwarves messing up your favorite mountain by carving it up into a new city. Or the happiness of halflings in their pastoral homes just sends a spike of anger through your head and you just want to destroy them for being so jolly.

Perhaps your character is tired of the endless struggle between humans, demihumans and humanoids and decides that some of those races just have to have an unfortunate ACCIDENT.

Or none of the above. You might have a 'noble' goal, restoring a fallen noble house to prestige through the use of blackmail, assassination, honey traps, bribes or theft.

Decide on an end goal and what methods you would use to accomplish that end goal. Then find out what the other guys in your group want to accomplish. What do you want? as the Shadows would say.

[Yagyujubei]

as a truly evil person your goal should be to gain power and subjugate the realm under said power. If these artifacts are worth such a large amount of money, or are powerful then you should be doing everything you can to be the one controlling them. seek necromantic knowledge so that you can become a lich with an undead army. seek out powerful beings (dragons, demons, devils) to grant you power in exchange for allegiance, and then when you have enough power usurp and kill them. Actively seek out and hunt notable heroes of the realm, take over a kingdom through cunning and subterfuge. find powerful artifacts that allow you to declare war on the gods themselves.

I'm playing in an all evil drow campaign, and my overarching goal is to gain enough power so that I can kill my older sisters/mother and take their place as matron mother. to do this I have a few of my own quest lines aside from the main line of our house trying to increase its ranking.

I'm secretly searching the underdark for temples of Ioun to get a hold of the stones, and an artifact crown that can hold them all and harness their power simultaneously.

I procured a map showing the secret roads into a dwarven city and am working in secret with one of the top ranked houses to plan a city wide attack where I have my own agenda to simultaneously further my own standing in the house by killing one of my older sisters.

I'm seeking knowledge on how to trap souls into physical objects, so I can start storing the souls of priestesses that I kill (haven't figured out EXACTLY what to do with these yet).

along those lines I was given an orb by some mind flayers that has the souls of many of the original pilgrims to the city who were captured by dwarves and killed in a ritual that kept their souls from ascending to lolth. I'm trying to figure out how to free them, and what I can gain from doing this. likely the process will be reversible and i'll be able to figure out how store the souls of my enemies in the orb

I have plans in motion begin a relationship with an adult (bordering on ancient) red dragon who, once the time is right I will kill with my brothers and hopefully turn into a dracolich that I can control to my whims.

etc. etc. Think big, think badass. become the BBEG of your dreams.

[snowman87]

I find there are several ways to motivate a group of evil individuals.

First of all, let's talk about the BBEG Cabal that's got some fetish for artifacts. That should concern you. Not because of Morality or anything like that, but because of: 1) greed [you can undoubtedly find someone interested in paying you to stop all that from happening]; 2) pride [you're evil. They're evil. Two evils enter, one evil leaves]; 3) self-preservation [you're living on this plane of existence too, bub. It's in your best interest to make sure it doesn't go to ****]; 4) curiosity ; or 5) wanting to usurp it [it's a good plan, but it'd be better if [I]I were in charge of it]. You got away from them, but they're a vast and connected group. What're the chances they'll just live and let live? Reverse the situation: if you were in a position of great power, and you knew there were competitors out there who'd evaded you once, would you just let them go about their lives and ignore them? Or would you crush their bones and watch them squirm away while listening to the lamentations of their women!? I know I go for the latter, especially if I'm playing an Evil character.

Second of all, let's examine greater purpose. Why is your character evil? Is it because doing mean things gets them off, or is it because they see evil as the most pragmatic method of surviving in the world, or is it because they have a tragic backstory, or is it because...? Knowing what turned your character to the proverbial (or, in certain systems, literal) Dark Side is important. I tend to have characters who crave domination over the world and over life itself. Every adventure serves that ultimate goal. A fear of death, a desire to "show them all," the pain of losing a loved one in a way modern medical magic can't repair? All of those can serve as a foundation for why your character is evil, and that can provide you with an overarching goal.

Just because you're evil doesn't mean you can't inadvertently save the world. It also doesn't mean you have no one in your life that you care for. Evil isn't necessarily Monstrous. That's my take, anyways. I'm interested to hear more about your character and the party they're in. That'll help me provide better advice in the future. :smallsmile:

Well, my character is a NE Changeling Bard/Rogue. The DM made me the party leader because I show a little better practical decision making abilities than the others. I imagine him as a type of emotionally detatched sort of man, except when he is betrayed (he takes great vengence upon double-crossers; he made a guy walk off a cliff for framing us). He takes the appearance of people he kills as one of his little vices. Other than that I never really got a chance to flesh out a back story. We just started playing. Also in the party is a Goliath (turned Dwarf by a curse) Fighter who's player only wants to fight. He's not happy unless he can hit something and do it in the most BA way possible. Then we have a Tiefling Sorcerer. Her player is new to the game and very quiet, very unsure what she is supposed to be doing. We also have a Wood Elf Ranger. Her player is the spouse of the Fighter so she isn't that interested and a lot of her decisions are made by the spouse. She more of less is just there with occaisonal input. We just added a Gnome Wizard. Only played with him a couple of times now but he's smart and sensible. None of us has made any ultimate goals made clear yet. No one is trying to restore their honor or take down a man who killed their family. We're all just bad people who joined together to get more done. I'd like us to have more, though.

We were based in Sharn in Eberron but the big organization ran us out after we took some of their stuff. Now we've taken control of a small woodmill town up north along the Dagger River. We have a ship that can do some magical stuff and we were thinking about pirating a little.

[zinycor]

Well your partty seems very fine, I would just come to the next session saying; Hey guys!! want to steal one of the artifacts?? That seems like easy power and lots of battles!!...

I think (But i could be wrong) that should be enough

[Glarx]

Well, my character is a NE Changeling Bard/Rogue. The DM made me the party leader because I show a little better practical decision making abilities than the others. I imagine him as a type of emotionally detatched sort of man, except when he is betrayed (he takes great vengence upon double-crossers; he made a guy walk off a cliff for framing us). He takes the appearance of people he kills as one of his little vices. Other than that I never really got a chance to flesh out a back story. We just started playing. Also in the party is a Goliath (turned Dwarf by a curse) Fighter who's player only wants to fight. He's not happy unless he can hit something and do it in the most BA way possible. Then we have a Tiefling Sorcerer. Her player is new to the game and very quiet, very unsure what she is supposed to be doing. We also have a Wood Elf Ranger. Her player is the spouse of the Fighter so she isn't that interested and a lot of her decisions are made by the spouse. She more of less is just there with occaisonal input. We just added a Gnome Wizard. Only played with him a couple of times now but he's smart and sensible. None of us has made any ultimate goals made clear yet. No one is trying to restore their honor or take down a man who killed their family. We're all just bad people who joined together to get more done. I'd like us to have more, though.

We were based in Sharn in Eberron but the big organization ran us out after we took some of their stuff. Now we've taken control of a small woodmill town up north along the Dagger River. We have a ship that can do some magical stuff and we were thinking about pirating a little.

I'm going to focus on addressing your character primarily, because... the others don't really matter to me yet. :smallwink:

So we have a few things going on. Neutral evil is the best evil. Always nice to have your law/chaos options open. You mentioned that you didn't get to establish his backstory, so you have a lot of leeway. And you have two signatures -- a homicidal hatred of betrayal, and taking on the characteristics of those he kills. From there, we can extrapolate. Why does he take on the faces of those he kills? Is it an expression of his utter domination of their being -- not only did he kill them, but he's also taking their face and identity away from them? Is it a self-destructive element, where he wears the proof of his crime for all to see (but few to realize)? Is it a trophy, an addiction inherent in his being?

If he hates betrayal so much, it points to perhaps an enormous falling out in his past. Someone who he put the utmost trust in betrayed him, and he's never gotten over it. Perhaps he had to betray someone in the past, and suppresses the memory to the point of violence when someone reminds him of it. Did the betrayal (either his or someone else's) spur him towards Evil? No single event necessarily pushes someone down the spectrum from Neutral to Evil (in the same way giving an orphan an apple doesn't make you Good), but was this his Start of Darkness?

He's a changling. Did he know his parents? Was he foisted on someone else's family?

"For the sake of what?" is the question you should ask yourself before doing something. Pirating... but for the sake of what? Money? Notoriety? Glory? Bloodlust? What's the purpose of the action? You don't need an enormous overarching goal in order to answer that question, but in answering that question you can start to cobble together a greater goal. If you want to take down the evil in Sharn (or, my personal favorite, just demolish Sharn -- I really dislike Sharn), pirating could supplement the money from the woodmill town's taxes. Or you could be trying to gain a reputation so that you can gather other pirates under your flag and establish your own organization, one that eschews subtlety and political power for militaristic might.

Anyways, to end this rambling post: find out what motivates your changeling. Figure out his past. Then you can expand towards what his goals would be. That's my advice at this point. :smallredface:

[snowman87]

Thank you! You've given my a lot of valuable things to think about. It will definitely help to determine what our actions will be if we know where we've been.

[Soular]

Our DM was quite excited about a group of evil characters. It was very thrilling at first, not restricted by morals and codes of honor, etc., but now the campaign doesn't really have much of a point. Our DM isn't leading us towards any greater goal or BBEG or anything, really. We do stuff and he reacts to it, making the world change according to our actions. But there isn't any drive to our characters. They don't have a purpose except to be evil. Our DM has some super-conspiracy about artifacts from another continent and the people who want them (with lots of money and political influence) but we've escaped them and since we're evil there is no motivation to go back and fight them. Who cares if there is an evil organization? We're looking after ourselves. That's my problem right now. Heroes have a drive to right wrongs. What do villains do, realistically? We're just going around stealing stuff or trying to take over places but there is no greater goal. How does a group of evil characters find greater purpose?

Snow, I encourage you to read this:

http://theangrygm.com/ask-angry-can-we-be-evil/

Basically, stop using the Hollywood blockbuster idea of evil. Guys that are so aberrant that they must kill everything in their path make for a great one off, but can not sustain a long-term series. Think more along the lines of The Governor from The Walking Dead, or Jane from Firefly. These are evil motherf*ckers who will sell you out for their own profit, yet are fully capable of creating emotional bonds with people, and acting toward a greater good (so long as it benefits them in the long run).

Evil isn't about the way you act, or the clothes you wear, or the company you keep. Its about how you react to moral quandaries. Once you understand what is being said in the above linked post, you will see that evil is easy to play, and even mixing evil and good in the same party is completely doable.

[Gurka]

What's been described is called a Sandbox game. That means the DM is going to create a world around you, and it's up to you players to figure out what you WANT to do. This is my personally favorite style of play. You can literally do any thing you want.

So what you need to figure out is YOUR character's ambition? Does he desire power for it's own sake? Wealth? To lord over others? To inflict pain and suffering? These are the sort of thins that the Bonds, flaws, etc in the PH are great to help with. If you're at a loss, you can roll some up randomly (or just use them for inspiration) and figure out what the motivating force for you character is.

Once you know that, it should be easy(ier) to figure out how you want to try and accomplish it, within the world.

[KorvinStarmast]

Well, my character is a NE Changeling Bard/Rogue. The DM made me the party leader because I show a little better practical decision making abilities than the others.
Shouldn't the party decide that sort of role?

Also in the party is a Goliath (turned Dwarf by a curse) Fighter who's player only wants to fight. He's not happy unless he can hit something and do it in the most BA way possible.
You guys have a pre made quest.

Find that so and so who cursed your goliath friend into a dwarf and capture him/her. Let the torture commence, as appropriate, and destroy everyone related to same to the second generation.
(Parents and offspring, as well as siblings, first cousins, aunts, and uncles.) The amount of havoc you can wreak pursuing that single quest goal is considerable.

Then, get the curse lifted. Or, do that in reverse order.

Then we have a Tiefling Sorcerer. Her player is new to the game and very quiet, very unsure what she is supposed to be doing. How nice, introducing her to the murder hobo way. That's what friends are for. :smallwink:

We also have a Wood Elf Ranger. Her player is the spouse of the Fighter so she isn't that interested and a lot of her decisions are made by the spouse. She more of less is just there with occasional input.
Does she want to be evil?

We just added a Gnome Wizard. Only played with him a couple of times now but he's smart and sensible.
Does he want to be evil? If so, he's as good a candidate for party leader as any of you.

None of us has made any ultimate goals made clear yet. No one is trying to restore their honor or take down a man who killed their family. We're all just bad people who joined together to get more done. I'd like us to have more, though.
The wood elf ranger back story, going evil, might be another great trigger for a quest. Has she done a back story?

[VoxRationis]

In my current campaign and the campaign that preceded it, several characters were arguably evil, with a tendency towards ruthlessness in pursuit of their goals, towards making plans to betray people who had only helped them, and to use others as pawns in their schemes.
But what made them reasonable characters was that they had goals and values, like realistic people. They tried to defend their homeland against invasion, to secure the goals of their king, to seize the imperial throne for themselves, etc. That's what makes a character realistic and intriguing. Come up with something your character wants, some long-term goal they need to work towards.

[snowman87]

Shouldn't the party decide that sort of role?

You guys have a pre made quest.

Find that so and so who cursed your goliath friend into a dwarf and capture him/her. Let the torture commence, as appropriate, and destroy everyone related to same to the second generation.
(Parents and offspring, as well as siblings, first cousins, aunts, and uncles.) The amount of havoc you can wreak pursuing that single quest goal is considerable.

Then, get the curse lifted. Or, do that in reverse order.
How nice, introducing her to the murder hobo way. That's what friends are for. :smallwink:

Does she want to be evil?

Does he want to be evil? If so, he's as good a candidate for party leader as any of you.

The wood elf ranger back story, going evil, might be another great trigger for a quest. Has she done a back story?

As for me being leader, the Fighter was party leader last time and showed he doesn't think too far ahead and the other two were too new to even consider.

As for the curse, the curse was the DM's doing. He threw a magic dagger with the curse in with some loot we stole and the Goliath was the first to pick it up. It was a bit of preemptive leniency since Goliaths are super rare in Eberron and people could identify him from the robbery. Also, the DM hates Goliaths. He thinks they are OP. The only motivation he might have at this point is from being held as a slave pit fighter. I took him from that life and he was my "slave" for awhile unitl he repaid the life debt. I'm not eager to remind him that I was his master. I thought I'd have to kill him but he's acting chill now.

The Tiefling is happy getting to experience the game finally. She likes the DM's style.

The Gnome may be a good party leader but he's too new to justify it right this moment. He's cool with being evil.

The Wood Elf just wants to hang. She is just fine being evil. She's actually made a few "killer" suggestions that went really well. Hiring prostitutes as meat shields works very well sometimes. She may have a back story but she hasn't told it yet.

[KorvinStarmast]

Also, the DM hates Goliaths. He thinks they are OP.
Two thoughts:
1. I tend to agree with your DM on Goliaths, though I don't hate them.
2. So the revenge mission gets complicated: you have to kill the DM. Wait, no, that doesn't work, game over. (So there are limits on evil). Find out from a sage who made that dagger, and kill them. (chances are it's a long dead wizard ...)
Oh well, quest foiled before it began. It happens.

The Wood Elf just wants to hang. She is just fine being evil. She's actually made a few "killer" suggestions that went really well. Hiring prostitutes as meat shields works very well sometimes. She may have a back story but she hasn't told it yet. Sound like you all are having a rollicking good time.

[Easy_Lee]

Misread the OP as, "how to play a bald guy." I'm kind of disappointed now =(

I imagine that you just play the way whatever bad guy you want to be would behave. Some murderhobo PCs get there anyway.

[djreynolds]

You could role a die, and have to act on that evil deed. Like you're confused and crazy. You don't get to choose to steal. DM tells you to role 1d8, oh a 5. You must kill the shopkeeper, 6 you must smash his counter, 8 you do everything and then run.

Introduce a little anarchy.

[zinycor]

Misread the OP as, "how to play a bald guy." I'm kind of disappointed now =(


Just go around looking sexy as hell.


You could role a die, and have to act on that evil deed. Like you're confused and crazy. You don't get to choose to steal. DM tells you to role 1d8, oh a 5. You must kill the shopkeeper, 6 you must smash his counter, 8 you do everything and then run.

Introduce a little anarchy.

I believe the OP is looking for exactly the opposite, he's looking for ways to make the characters act with a lot more cohesion and have objectives to look for.

[Carric Darkbard]

Iv'e been in an evil group once. As an evil cleric, I was selling my healing :belkar: to the group !!!!

It finally turns that two players sold traded 3 of us for gold, as we were unconscious ...:annoyed:

That's what an evil group is : Backstabbing buddies ! lol

[djreynolds]

Just go around looking sexy as hell.



I believe the OP is looking for exactly the opposite, he's looking for ways to make the characters act with a lot more cohesion and have objectives to look for.

Sorry, I just like the idea of chaos. I misunderstood. But...

Have the DM grant bonus experience for ditching people in combat. The whole thing is to create " no honor among thieves," I like the idea of the cleric charging for healing. I think it's great for them to try to have cohesion, but the DM needs to tempt their evil side. Who really trusts who. Like "War of the Spider Queen", no one ever really cared for each other.

[Mr.Moron]

Somewhere in the world there is a lost sacred forest.\You see in this forest there is a magical never-ending basket of puppies, cute floppy-earned canines flow from it like water from a spring. To this date, not one of them has ever been kicked. As certified evil-doers you cannot stand this. You must find this forest. You must kick those puppies.

[KorvinStarmast]

Somewhere in the world there is a lost sacred forest.\You see in this forest there is a magical never-ending basket of puppies, cute floppy-earned canines flow from it like water from a spring. To this date, not one of them has ever been kicked. As certified evil-doers you cannot stand this. You must find this forest. You must kick those puppies.

It's a trap, I tell you! There's a druid with an attitude just waiting for some fool to do just this.
And he brought friends.
One of them wear jeans and a hat and mutter under his breath about forest fires.
Another one's name is Tony.
And there's that dryad with the nice figure ... don't mess with her.

Flee For your Lives! :smalleek:

[zinycor]

Sorry, I just like the idea of chaos. I misunderstood. But...

Have the DM grant bonus experience for ditching people in combat. The whole thing is to create " no honor among thieves," I like the idea of the cleric charging for healing. I think it's great for them to try to have cohesion, but the DM needs to tempt their evil side. Who really trusts who. Like "War of the Spider Queen", no one ever really cared for each other.

Sorry but I think that's an horrible idea xD

being evil doesn't mean being an *******, at least not to those you work with. Burn the town, steal money or things like that. But your alternative probably will cause some problems OoC, which should be avoided

[Ralanr]

The Wood Elf just wants to hang. She is just fine being evil. She's actually made a few "killer" suggestions that went really well. Hiring prostitutes as meat shields works very well sometimes. She may have a back story but she hasn't told it yet.

:smalleek:...Wow. That's both very evil and very creative. I approve (On the creativity. I'm still making my first attempt and an actual evil character).

I might have to steal that for a villain in the future.

[Ralanr]

Sorry but I think that's an horrible idea xD

being evil doesn't mean being an *******, at least not to those you work with. Burn the town, steal money or things like that. But your alternative probably will cause some problems OoC, which should be avoided

Yes. For examples, just look at some of the villains of OOTS, specifically Tarquinn and his gang (I will only give names).

Sometimes the only way you can tell an evil party from a good party is their goals and how they accomplish them. Good parties can hate each other. The order of the scribble certainly didn't like each other 100%

Evil is not easily described. A friend told me his definition was, "Knowing the thing is bad and doing it anyway." which I can agree and disagree with. The bad thing might be necessary, sometimes you need to steal the item that can save the world, etc.

Not meaning to start an alignment debate. Personally (in 5e because alignments aren't really necessary for classes) I prefer to play with alignment filled out as, "Ambiguous". I've only played for a few years, so I've mostly focused on doing what's right within my alignment. Being ambiguous I can put more focus into my character's actions rather than if it fits his alignment (Which turned out to be LN or CN depending on what you knew of him. LN because he has a personal code of honor, CN because nothing my party has done has brought issue with it so it's not brought up...and because people see my practical decisions as "I do what I want. Me smash!" :smallannoyed:. Taunting a future tournament opponent in a bar is a legitimate tactic, it tells me how easily he gets angry/how fragile his ego might be).

TL;DR: Do what feels natural to your character. You already have a fighter that only wants to fight, that's the perfect "Brute" of the big bad ensemble. All evil plans require some blood spilling (mostly the ones that reach an unseen element and need it removed, but still), so he'll work well in any grandiose evil scheme.

[Soular]

I linked to the post from Angry DM's site because I feel that D&D has always done a piss-poor job of explaining what alignment is, or does.

Being evil doesn't mean you kill hookers in alleyways, or kick puppies, or whatever. Good vs. evil boils down to how you would handle a moral quandary. Lets take your stereotypical crusader from the middle ages:

A crusader (well, a bunch of them) could travel to a neighboring land, sack a town, rape and plunder, kill every adult, and leave the children to starve to death.

Is it effective? Well, he killed hundreds of heathens in order to bring twice the number into the fold. That would make him a hero to most religions.

And when he goes home, he treats his fellow citizens with courtesy and respect. He loves his wife and children. He is held in the highest esteem by his peers and the church. He is well-known for his generosity, and often uses his own deep pockets to fund local schools and orphanages. Many come to him for sage counsel and to resolve disputes.

Well, what have we just described? A paladin. Assuming that everything he did was sanctioned by his church and state, nothing that he did was unlawful. Is it evil? You bet your last 24 karat gold-plated bippie it is!

I really like how 5E has opened the door for evil paladins.

Anyway, my point is that evil people don't act cartoonishly evil all the time. They just make decisions that benefit themselves without caring about the consequences for someone else. Heck, used car salesmen could be evil, politicians could be evil, CEOs could be evil.

Evil is really just an extreme form of selfishness coupled with a lack of empathy.

[VoxRationis]

politicians could be evil, CEOs could be evil.

Could be?
Schoolteacher might be a better example of could be.

[Easy_Lee]

Could be?
Schoolteacher might be a better example of could be.

Implying that all CEOs are evil? Hello, you must be the 99%.

[Slipperychicken]

How does a group of evil characters find greater purpose?

It helps for them to start with goals, ambitions, and backstory beyond "I'm a tremendous self-aware jerk and I want to get rich at others' expense".


Implying that all CEOs are evil? Hello, you must be the 99%.

Implying they aren't? Hello, you must never have worked for corporate.

[Easy_Lee]

Implying they aren't? Hello, you must never have worked for corporate.

Have worked for the same company for the past 2 and half years, and my CEO is a pretty cool guy. It's not a small company, either, and has been around for over a century. Stereotypes are not true of all members of a group.

[Ralanr]

Have worked for the same company for the past 2 and half years, and my CEO is a pretty cool guy. It's not a small company, either, and has been around for over a century. Stereotypes are not true of all members of a group.

Thus is why they are called stereotypes and not truths.

You'd think people would know the difference.

Let's get back on topic. Honestly OP, you should talk with your group in seeing what they think of with evil and where they want to go. But remember this bit of knowledge:

-Villains act, heroes react.

[snowman87]

As it happens, last night we struck upon the idea of pretending to be heroes. We raided a small town as pirates in costumes and masks, set fires, sunk ships, and kidnapped a noblewoman. Then we showed back up as a good adventure party and volunteered to rescue the woman from the villains, which of course we did.

We'll try to play this racquet for awhile to build some wealth and reputation. Then we'll decide how to go bigger.

[Tenmujiin]

As it happens, last night we struck upon the idea of pretending to be heroes. We raided a small town as pirates in costumes and masks, set fires, sunk ships, and kidnapped a noblewoman. Then we showed back up as a good adventure party and volunteered to rescue the woman from the villains, which of course we did.

We'll try to play this racquet for awhile to build some wealth and reputation. Then we'll decide how to go bigger.

That is actually one of the most amazing schemes I've heard of in a while (that didn't require some kind of magic)

[Malifice]

Our DM was quite excited about a group of evil characters. It was very thrilling at first, not restricted by morals and codes of honor, etc., but now the campaign doesn't really have much of a point. Our DM isn't leading us towards any greater goal or BBEG or anything, really. We do stuff and he reacts to it, making the world change according to our actions. But there isn't any drive to our characters. They don't have a purpose except to be evil. Our DM has some super-conspiracy about artifacts from another continent and the people who want them (with lots of money and political influence) but we've escaped them and since we're evil there is no motivation to go back and fight them. Who cares if there is an evil organization? We're looking after ourselves. That's my problem right now. Heroes have a drive to right wrongs. What do villains do, realistically? We're just going around stealing stuff or trying to take over places but there is no greater goal. How does a group of evil characters find greater purpose?

Why did your character become an adventurer?
Who are his family? Are they alive?
Why is he evil?
Does he acknowledge he's evil? Most evil people dont.
Who does he hate, and why?
Who does he love, and why?
What are his goals in life? Short term, medium term, long term.

Answer those questions and youll be fine.

[Death knight 00]

What you and the other players need to realize is that if you have moved away from the main plot and you are playing an evil party, you are the BBEG!

[Ralanr]

What you and the other players need to realize is that if you have moved away from the main plot and you are playing an evil party, you are the BBEG!

All they need is a group of adventures following them. Bonus points if it's made up of different people they ripped off.

[KorvinStarmast]

The DM could take inspiration from the blues and put a hell hound on each of their trails (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj0IWPF4gUo). Or a pack of them. :smallbiggrin:

Ref is to Robert Johnson, see lyrics here (http://xroads.virginia.edu/~Music/BLUES/homt.html).