Whats the point of reach weapons?

[stenver]

These are the things i have figures out that make reach weapons good:
* Hitting over ally shoulder
* Hitting somebody on higher ground
* Using sentinel feat to provoke opportunity in wider range

Other than that, i cant see any other benefits. But i do see this major disadvantage:

* Enemy can now circle around you in 10 feet, not 5 feet.

[Firechanter]

They basically require Polearm Master to be worthwhile. Even then, their Reach is often more of a disadvantage rather than an advantage. You sometimes get to make an AoO when someone approaches you, but it won't trigger as often as you'd think due to a stupid FAQ ruling.

Anyway, Polearm Master is a very good feat, so having to wield a Reach weapon kinda is the opportunity cost. Also, it synergizes well with Great Weapon Master, especially if you're a Paladin.

[Kryx]

Polearms are very strong. The best DPR weapon in the game.


Allow for attacking over a friendly target (half cover)
Large OA range - out to 10 feet (But also the disadvantage of not being able to OA at 5ft)
Bonus action from Polearm master makes polearms the highest DPR builds for melee classes
Opportunity attack from Polearm master is amazing.

[ronlugge]

They basically require Polearm Master to be worthwhile. Even then, their Reach is often more of a disadvantage rather than an advantage. You sometimes get to make an AoO when someone approaches you, but it won't trigger as often as you'd think due to a stupid FAQ ruling.

What ruling?


Polearms are very strong. The best DPR weapon in the game.


Allow for attacking over a friendly target (half cover)
Large OA range - out to 10 feet (But also the disadvantage of not being able to OA at 5ft)
Bonus action from Polearm master makes polearms the highest DPR builds for melee classes
Opportunity attack from Polearm master is amazing.


You also overlooked the ability to step forward (into 10ft range), make your attack, then back away. A strength-based valor bard might want to do this on level three, until he can upgrade to heavy armor at level 4.

[Slipperychicken]

It makes it a bit easier to maneuver, as you can attack most enemies without entering their reach. That means you can pull out that turn without provoking, if desired. Then to close with you, the enemy has to enter your reach and eat an OA (stopping him in his tracks if it hits). With polearm master, sentinel, and stepping back, you can potentially attack as normal while keeping the target unable to retaliate in melee.

There are also those times when your movement is only enough to get you within 10ft of an opponent. You can also let your reach weapon pull double-duty as a 10ft pole.

[Kryx]

You also overlooked the ability to step forward (into 10ft range), make your attack, then back away. A strength-based valor bard might want to do this on level three, until he can upgrade to heavy armor at level 4.
Agreed. This ability is super nice as well.

[PoeticDwarf]

These are the things i have figures out that make reach weapons good:
* Hitting over ally shoulder
* Hitting somebody on higher ground
* Using sentinel feat to provoke opportunity in wider range

Other than that, i cant see any other benefits. But i do see this major disadvantage:

* Enemy can now circle around you in 10 feet, not 5 feet.

If you're fighting a balor, or a remorazh, you don't want to be within 5ft, but 10ft is OK

[stenver]

Thanks everybody!

[djreynolds]

Same as ranged, just ability to attack from a distance.

[PoeticDwarf]

Same as ranged, just ability to attack from a distance.

I don't agree, if you want to attack for distance, you aren't going in melee but you go for fighter or ranger and shoot people down with your bow

[Ardantis]

Weird chances to perform reach weapons don't do it all

[ronlugge]

Weird chances to perform reach weapons don't do it all

Huh? Not following your comment.

[Firechanter]

What ruling?


Sorry for the late reply, I lost sight of the thread.

Anyway, let me explain:
If you look at the wording of the Reach property, it says something like "your range is increased by 5' when you make an attack with it".
Now this threatens to put us in a weird limbo state when we try to strike an AoO: as per Polearm Master, you get an AoO when someone _enters_ your reach. However, when someone approaches you, you are not currently making an attack, so your Reach is 5'. So you'd think he'd trigger an AoO when he moves adjacent to you. Then you can attack -- but now the condition is fulfilled, and your Reach increases to 10' -- so the opponent is not entering your Reach anymore because he's already inside. Thus you don't get an AoO... repeat ad nauseam.

So we need some kind of rules clarification. Basically there are two possible rulings:
a) the AoO is triggered when the opponent enters within 10' of you
b) the AoO is triggered when the opponent moves from 10' to 5' (adjacent)

You'll notice that the (b) option is exactly the way it has been handled in 3E. So it would have been only sensible to make the same decision for 5E. But did they do it? No! It's exactly the other way round -- you get it at 10'. This was declared in some "ask the designer" session or so.

Now theoretically you'd think it shouldn't make much of a difference, or even be beneficial, but in practice I've experienced this to be rather detrimental, because very often you end your turn within 10' of enemies, and so from then on they can move inside your reach with impunity.

[Kryx]

It has been clarified. It is meant to apply on OAs as well. Crawford has a tweet about it.

[Evilsliphell]

It's in the official errata http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/ph_errata

[ZenBear]

Something I've always been curious about:

Polearm Master + Sentinel is a great combo, but a reach weapon having 10ft reach at all times and not just when making an attack means that, according to the exact wording of Sentinel, you cannot prevent an opponent from escaping your reach.

"Creatures within 5 feet of you provoke opportunity attack from you even if they take the Disengage action before leaving your reach."

Does this mean reach weapons cannot prevent a Disengage? Does this mean it only works if they Disengage from adjacent but not from 10 feet? How exactly does this work?

Personally, I think it makes much more sense to say "Reach" weapons have 5ft reach until you make an attack on your turn. You still get the AoO when they enter your reach, but it's not until they reach adjacency. You get AoOs from enemies leaving adjacency, so no more dancing around within 10.

[Kryx]

Polearm Master + Sentinel is a great combo, but a reach weapon having 10ft reach at all times and not just when making an attack means that, according to the exact wording of Sentinel, you cannot prevent an opponent from escaping your reach.

"Creatures within 5 feet of you provoke opportunity attack from you even if they take the Disengage action before leaving your reach."

Does this mean reach weapons cannot prevent a Disengage? Does this mean it only works if they Disengage from adjacent but not from 10 feet? How exactly does this work?

This was fixed in the errata: "Sentinel (p. 169). Ignore “within 5 feet of you” in the second benefit."



Personally, I think it makes much more sense to say "Reach" weapons have 5ft reach until you make an attack on your turn. You still get the AoO when they enter your reach, but it's not until they reach adjacency. You get AoOs from enemies leaving adjacency, so no more dancing around within 10.
I originally felt this way as well, but it has been clarified to work as always giving reach. It makes a good amount of sense.

Benefits of Polearms:

Allow for attacking over a friendly target (half cover)
Largest OA range - out to 10 feet. This could provide a good number of Opportunity Attacks
Bonus action from Polearm master makes polearms the highest DPR builds for melee classes
Opportunity attack from enemy entering your reach from Polearm master is amazing.
Step in to 10 feet away from an enemy, attack, step out = no opportunity attack


Negatives of Polearms:

Lower damage die (doesn't matter as it does more DPR)
Easier for enemies to maneuver once they are within 10 feet.


If you rule the other way then you remove the "largest OA", "Opportunity attack from Polearm Master", and "Step in to 10 feet" from the Benefits and the "easier for enemies to manuever" from the negatives.

The RAW way makes sense imo.

[ronlugge]

Sorry for the late reply, I lost sight of the thread.

Anyway, let me explain:
If you look at the wording of the Reach property, it says something like "your range is increased by 5' when you make an attack with it".
Now this threatens to put us in a weird limbo state when we try to strike an AoO: as per Polearm Master, you get an AoO when someone _enters_ your reach. However, when someone approaches you, you are not currently making an attack, so your Reach is 5'. So you'd think he'd trigger an AoO when he moves adjacent to you. Then you can attack -- but now the condition is fulfilled, and your Reach increases to 10' -- so the opponent is not entering your Reach anymore because he's already inside. Thus you don't get an AoO... repeat ad nauseam.

So we need some kind of rules clarification. Basically there are two possible rulings:
a) the AoO is triggered when the opponent enters within 10' of you
b) the AoO is triggered when the opponent moves from 10' to 5' (adjacent)

You'll notice that the (b) option is exactly the way it has been handled in 3E. So it would have been only sensible to make the same decision for 5E. But did they do it? No! It's exactly the other way round -- you get it at 10'. This was declared in some "ask the designer" session or so.

Now theoretically you'd think it shouldn't make much of a difference, or even be beneficial, but in practice I've experienced this to be rather detrimental, because very often you end your turn within 10' of enemies, and so from then on they can move inside your reach with impunity.

That's not a rulling, it's an opportunity for one -- an opportunity that was already taken, in the only sensible direction.

[burninatortrog]

The part you hold away from yourself!

[CyberThread]

I say this once, and I'll say this twice


FAQ IS NOT OFFICIAL ERRATA!



Also I have not seen it mentioned yet before , but it prevents folks from using a reaction to attack against you, with puny 5 foot reach weapons.

[Steampunkette]

Recently in a Dark Sun 5e game I used higher ground as cover from an elf after attacking the raiding jerk. He was hurt so he tried to get away by backing away on top of the rock he'd been standing on (and I ducked under the edge of).

So I swung my Alhulak up over the edge of the rock (with Disadvantage) hooked the Alhulak around his hip and into his guts, and dragged his dying form off the rockface.

The remaining elves got pretty scared at that point. All they saw was an alhulak head flying out of nowhere tearing out their buddy's intestines.

Reach is awesome.

[Kryx]

FAQ IS NOT OFFICIAL ERRATA!
There is no FAQ in 5e.

You, personally, are free to take the stance that you only equate the rules via RAW. However WotC expects tweets to be used to clarify issues. Especially from their sage.